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6 Ways to Have a Miserable D/s Relationship - 6/2/2008 4:31:02 PM

MsCfromMelbourne

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The following is an article in development. Any thoughts from your own experience of failed D/s relationships are very welcome.

< Message edited by MsCfromMelbourne -- 6/2/2008 4:38:27 PM >

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RE: 6 Ways to Have a Miserable D/s Relationship - 6/2/2008 4:32:19 PM

MsCfromMelbourne

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While D/s can enhance a promising relationship, it cannot fix a broken one. Or broken people.

Having muddled through a few D/s relationships now, I think I have learned a few lessons (the hard way :)

1) Conflict resolution

Every relationship - D/s or otherwise - involves countless day to day power struggles (conflicts). Usually they are resolved by compromise. Sometimes you win; sometimes you lose. It is the dance of give and take necessary if you want a successful long term partnership. Not everyone does, of course. Some people just want serial D/s romance and good luck to them.

It is completely naive for one partner to expect or demand that the other party always yield in every conflict. Whether you agreed to be a "slave" or not, abdicating all responsibility for your life by yielding to the Mistress/Master in every conflict is not admirable D/s, it is regression into a Control Freak/babyhood dynamic.

Trying to fix a troubled relationship by making one side the "Dominant" (winner of all conflicts) and the other "submissive" (loser of all conflicts) is absolutely doomed.

2) Understand where power really lies

It takes 2 people to make a relationship work but only one to destroy it by walking away, right?

Therefore the partner who most wants the relationship to work has less power. The one prepared to walk away is the one who has the power. Not the Dominant and not the submissive: the one most willing to walk out.

3) Power play 1: gambling the relationship

Threatening to leave the relationship (or - in my history - actually leaving and returning over and over) is a way to snatch all the power in the relationship. With that power you can manipulate your partner to get your own way.

I have really bad news. It does not work. Although the other person may submit in order to save the relationship (eg come to your house on his knees begging, crying and waving an engagement ring), the relationship has been dealt a fatal blow.

Why?

Consciously or sub-consciously your partner will think up smart ways to even up the power imbalance. You can get away with emotional blackmail for a while, but not forever.

4) Power play 2: Keeping a spare

Another way we take/keep power in a relationship is by keeping your options open (and letting the other person know it).

You know how kids play parents off one another? Well a good way to keep partners toeing our line is to have more than one partner (usually both submissives) and if one fails to please (ie has a mind of his or her own and stands up to you) punish them by switching favour to the other(s).

Humans (women more so?) are hard wired to compete for partners. Over and over I see submissives in "poly" situations fight over the Dom/me....when quite obviously the Dom/me isn't good enough for either of them! Whoever finally wins the battle gets the booby prize because guess what? Yes, as fast as the sub beats off one rival, the Dom/me is cruising for a new "spare". Its a power play. And a lot of fun too if you like collecting new submissives.

5) Power play 3: keep one foot out the door

Similar to keeping a spare, but both parties tend to play this one.

What is the best way to counteract fear of abandonment and the power that gives you partner over you?

Well, you lessen the fear. How? By making sure you don't care if the other person stays or leaves.

But how? Some ideas are:

(1) hold back emotionally so you do not bond at all (no love=no heartbreak)

(2) bond somewhat but refuse to commit yourself (so the door is always open to run)

(3) get and keep an alternative partner in reserve/on the bench (so you can slide effortlessly across to a new relationship if the old one is getting hard)

6) Power play 4: love and commit, but make absolutely sure that they love/need you more than you love/need them.

(a) Romantise singledom is a good technique for this. Make sure you like being single so much (and are so independent) that ditching a partner when the going gets tough is always an attractive option.

(b) Belittling, abusing and over-criticising your partner is another good way to keep their self esteem lower than yours (which could be really low!). Keep them deluded they are lucky to have you

7) Power play 5: Trap the other person.

This is an age old solution, but "unwanted" pregnancy is the tried and true way to trap someone in a relationship. Social pressure (and the love they feel for the hapless child) will keep him or her there long after they are desperate to get out. Economic and emotional dependence are other useful ideas for trapping people you "love".

There are really severe problems with all these ideas. Yes, you have the power (and illusion of control), but do you have a sustainable relationship of love and respect?

****************************************
This is a work (and life) in progress - everyone else's ideas how to have a Miserable D/s Relationship welcome

< Message edited by MsCfromMelbourne -- 6/2/2008 4:37:50 PM >

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RE: 6 Ways to Have a Miserable D/s Relationship - 6/2/2008 4:44:11 PM

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You could probably apply these to a Vanilla Relationship too

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RE: 6 Ways to Have a Miserable D/s Relationship - 6/2/2008 4:46:58 PM

MsCfromMelbourne

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Agreed absolutely, but we do not have vanilla relationships. Our relationships are based on deliberate, agreed power exchange. So how do we still screw them up?

< Message edited by MsCfromMelbourne -- 6/2/2008 4:48:35 PM >

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RE: 6 Ways to Have a Miserable D/s Relationship - 6/2/2008 6:21:55 PM

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Another of the favorite i've run across for number 7, a way to trap a person.

Threatening to kill yourself. After a couple of visits from this little monster, i've learned to say "Go ahead, don't make a mess here though." It seems cold, but when you take the power out of the threat they tend to stop using them. i've yet to have an ex kill themselves after having this conversation.

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RE: 6 Ways to Have a Miserable D/s Relationship - 6/2/2008 7:12:56 PM

MsCfromMelbourne

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Yes! Threatening to suicide does seem to happen more in the BDSM scene than elsewhere IME.

We have a serial suicidal male Dom here in Melbourne who throws this stunt when female submissives try to leave him.

He is very much alive and kicking

However, the literature says you must take any mention of suicide very seriously. It could be the person's first and last cry for help.

Therefore, when my manipulative little drama queen of a sister rang and threatened to kill herself, I called the cops and sent them around to her place. Of course they found her very calm and collected, with no need to drag her off to a locked psych ward. She never pulled that stunt again.

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RE: 6 Ways to Have a Miserable D/s Relationship - 6/2/2008 7:13:29 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne
Our relationships are based on deliberate, agreed power exchange. So how do we still screw them up?

Because we're still human? We still have the desire/need to feel appreciated/respected/valued. Both parties rarely actually desire the same boundaries to the power exchange, and people naturally try to achieve that which they desire. Often times, in all relationships, unintentional and not necessarily consensual power dynamics develop because of these desires. I really think the key to making just about any relationship work is to be keenly aware of ones desires and communicate them honestly while remaining open and accepting of ones partner(s) desires. Granted, this is much more easily said than done, as evidenced by most people's experience.

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RE: 6 Ways to Have a Miserable D/s Relationship - 6/2/2008 7:43:55 PM

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I like what you have written and I have learned much of this from different sources but I think I am going to copy and paste it if you dont mind...I think I am guilty of these things to some degree as we all our when fear raises its ugly head.

However I dont think it is necessarily the cause to end things in a relationship but surely without these dynamics a relationship could be healthier and more satisfying for both partners. Another angle on this might be a story that talks about those things ou have mentioned and how to recognize and avoid doing them within the relationship. Maybe another way to deal with feelings of insecurity that lead to this behavior. Just an idea.

D/s relationships do have the potential to be as healthy as those involved and I have found that many in the community may be more thoughtful about such matters. Maybe it is because they are very aware of the intellectual bond necessary to create the dynamics that they seek. Without the time and attention to our own emotional obstacles we could not create a lasting interaction that manyin the lifestyle desire or have. So being aware and open about such things maybe a way for someone to avoid such pitfalls.

Thanks for getting me thinking:)

< Message edited by cuddlemesoft -- 6/2/2008 7:46:29 PM >

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RE: 6 Ways to Have a Miserable D/s Relationship - 6/2/2008 8:40:20 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne

Agreed absolutely, but we do not have vanilla relationships. Our relationships are based on deliberate, agreed power exchange. So how do we still screw them up?

Is it possible to have a real power exchange, though, in a relationship that has all the qualities (I guess it's things to avoid) that you describe? Your OP describes a very mature & responsible view of relationship but (there's always a but) can a relationship that avoids those pitfalls also be a fulfilling power exchange or D/s relationship?

I think about this quote from Jung a lot:

quote:

Where love rules, there is no will to power; and where power predominates, there love is lacking. The one is the shadow of the other.

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RE: 6 Ways to Have a Miserable D/s Relationship - 6/2/2008 9:29:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne

While D/s can enhance a promising relationship, it cannot fix a broken one. Or broken people.

Or broken expectations...

Shakespeare once wrote, "There is nothing either good or bad, only thinking makes it so."

What is a relationship? Isn't a relationship a series of interactions which exist between two people who share a common interest of needs, wants and desires brought together by both reason and motivation?

Personally I feel that a lot of problems stem from the fact that many people enter into relationships having one or both of two basic false premises (1) that the relationship by default is going to be permanent, and (2) that it, and the other person, possibly as if by magic, is going to fulfill all their needs, wants and wishes perfectly and in a way much better than previous relationships.

I'm going to be 42 in July, and after a dozen vanilla and D/s relationships behind me I've yet to find one where there's evidence proving that either of these false premises above are true.

These two false premises need a little modification IMHO to be made true (1) this relationship may be permanent, but it may not (2) this relationship and the other person both together are going to fulfill all my needs, wants and wishes differently from my previous partners and relationships.

Better? Wouldn't it be much more healthy to enter into a relationship having a more realistic perspective of both the potential relationship and the other person involved? Why deceive yourself into thinking you have found a personification of a god or goddess when in reality all you've found is a new person who is going to end up with a different take on you from everyone else? Why place unrealistic expectations on them, and yourself, of a guaranteed outcome for a relationship? Do you know it's going to work out? Show me your crystal ball.

But isn't it these two very unrealistic expectations which ultimately serve not just as opticians for rose-coloured spectacles and the mind-changing 'lurve drug' (a bit like magic mushrooms and LSD, sort of distorts reality) but also serves as a millstone or handicap for whatever relationship develops?

Relationships need not necessarily fail, they might just end. This ending might just be natural. Ever thought that it might not be the case that you screwed up, but that things came to a natural end? Ever thought that it just might be nobody's fault? It's never easy to end a relationship unless it's a bad one, it hurts, it leaves behind emotional pain, heartache, loneliness, emptiness, stress, confusion, disorientation, and yet people seek to compound all this suffering by seeking recriminations either in themselves or other people.. or both. That need for closure.. Why?

But hey look, that person is still there, alive, living and breathing, and so are you. Nobody died. You both got the chance to say goodbye. They came with good intentions, you had good intentions, you met, they had the decency not just to pick you, but also to try and give you a picee of their lives, to share their feelings, their heart, everything they had, and you did too. Wasn't that good? It's difficult to be frineds I guess when you're hurting, and you miss that person deeply and still love them, and you're there wondering what is, what might have been, 'what if...?' But time heals, the hands of the clock go round, day becomes night, night becomes day, and life moves on.

I don't think I've ever been in a relationship where there have been no positives. Some would say I'm a quality sub, others might agree, and this in part is down to me, and the way I have responded to my life, but there's also a significant part which I have carried forward from my relationships. I form relationships with Dommes, I spent five years with a Warsaw Domme and try as I might I cannot change the Eastern European flavour of my submission which she carefully instilled in me, conditoning me, and yet there are elements from everyone I have met and shared a relationship with. Trust me, without these wonderful women, I wouldn't be halfway to being who I am today. In some cases the relationship has gone long ago, but there's friendship and it remains, they have moved on, and so have I.

Yesterday I read through another thread here, 'All the good ones have gone' and I was genuinely very shocked and very saddened. What upset me quite a bit was a few views on poly, as if it was a solution. I'm not poly, I've tried it, it didn't work out but hey, we're all adults, we all have brains and tongues, it works for some people and I wish them sincerely all the happiness in their relationships. It can work out, it maybe requires a sort of maturity and flexibility which I don't possess myself, but if everyone is happy and settled, who am I to judge? I'm not there in the relationship, though I know people in poly, and I know it can work.

But there were others claiming to be poly, and I got the impression from looking at the outside that maybe they were either deluding or fooling themselves or other people. Poly to me is a relationship between three or more people where everyone is aware, happy, settled and loved. I ahve my opinion, and my opinion is that poly where only one person among the mix is happy and the rest aren't, this isn't poly, but a gross misunderstanding of the value and appreciation of the relationships involved. I found the statement 'good subs come along like buses' to be especially sad, not just for the many very decent subs out there, mainly male subs who never get the chance or opportunity, but also for the many Dommes out there who are waiting for that 'one' but can't find them. Do two halves always make a whole? And are relationships today so cheap and disposable that we settle for second best, for pleasure and compromise, and fail to explore further?

Yes I know, I'm disgressing, but to get back to the OP I feel that all the above are strategies which merely reinforce either of the two false premises I have given earlier, that (1) this relationship by default is permanent, and (2) this person has to be soooo much better for me than all the others. Why? Why cling to a relationship which has run its course? Or perhaps which was never built on a solid foundation in the first place?

I feel some people get misled by the advertising gimmicks of BDSM. Alternative lifestyle, therefore, alternative relationship, right?

Wrong. I'm sorry but in my opinion starting out a relationship on mutual kinks and fetishes is going about things arse end backwards and instead of a relationship you only end up with a mess which is upside down and back to front and a lot of confusion, illusion and misunderstandings. But isn't BDSM all about kink and fetish and what not? Yes. But if that's all BDSM can be a very lonely place full of illusions, half truths, loneliness, misunderstandings and other people who simply go poof in the night. You can also spend years with a profile on CM searching and never see what's staring you right in the face. Then again you can get it right and somehow become invisible to others who should be able to see you for who you really are but don't. How many times have you wanted to scream after checking your Inbox?

It's like grandmother's Christmas cake. You need a relationship just like any other relationship. This is the cake. The kink, the BDSM, the fetish, this is just the marzipan and icing on top. Eating royal icing on its own tends to make you sick very quickly. Isn't it far better to have a slice of cake?

I'm hoping the OP isn't mad at me.. I didn't mean to hijack. Merely to add, to contribute. I'm sure her article like her postings make recommended reading.

This is just my 0.02

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(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)

RE: 6 Ways to Have a Miserable D/s Relationship - 6/2/2008 10:13:07 PM

MsCfromMelbourne

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Great posts in reply so far - thanks guys!

Relationships begin, grow and end for infinite reasons.

My article is attempting to identify our self sabotaging behaviours in D/s relationships through the lense of power (obtaining and keeping it).

That is a very interesting question whether D/s and love are mutually exclusive (cannot co-exist in the same relationship). It dovetails with Stella's point you should get the love (cake) right first then overlay it with BDSM as the optional (and dispensable?) icing.

My own feeling is that consensual power exchange can grow into love over time and be very loving. But is the Dominant's need to have power and control in the relationship ("having the upper hand") by fair means or foul "loving" behaviour? Or a personality disorder

Of course why Dominants need the power in the relationship at all is an infinitely complex question. There are numerous "why I am dominant" threads attempting to answer that question. Insecurity is only one factor.

< Message edited by MsCfromMelbourne -- 6/2/2008 10:24:30 PM >

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RE: 6 Ways to Have a Miserable D/s Relationship - 6/2/2008 10:17:54 PM

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I would like to add to number 7 -

Trapping a partner through financial dependency; shared money, property, businesses or other assests.

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RE: 6 Ways to Have a Miserable D/s Relationship - 6/2/2008 10:21:36 PM

MsCfromMelbourne

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Thank you Vendaval - good point. STDs (Sexually Transmitted Debt) is a major problem here in Australia too.

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RE: 6 Ways to Have a Miserable D/s Relationship - 6/2/2008 10:25:17 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne

Agreed absolutely, but we do not have vanilla relationships. Our relationships are based on deliberate, agreed power exchange. So how do we still screw them up?

Love your OP. Lots of nice observations.

Everyone extolls the beauty of passionate love in a connection, and although important, i tend to think "committment" is what keeps me involved in a longterm relationship.

Love blows hot and cold. Committment is a constant. Once i've committed myself heart and soul to someone, it's almost as if there is this bomb shelter around the relationship that will allow it to withstand a tsunami. No matter what happens, the relationship is sacrosant. A nuclear blast could not destroy it.

The easiest example i can give of this is the relationship i have with my son. I've raised him since he was 6 years old. Nothing will ever break the bond that ties us together. Yes there is love. But i tend to think of love as fragile. We share beautiful moments together and can go at it like a pair of pit bulls. And yet, my committment to him as a parent is unshakable. He's stuck with me for life.

We can screw up a D/s relationship by...

Make a committment or force your partner to make a committment under false pretenses.

Immature people make committments under the heat of the moment, that they later realize they have no intentions of keeping. And headstrong people will box you into a corner, twist your arm, and force a committment out of you that you later will disregard as nonchalantly as tossing a cigarette butt.

For example, my first Domme was twice my age. I was just 22 and she was 42. We were together for 2 years, but both knew it was not fated to last. Still, she tried to make it last by forcing committments out of me. She would bind and beat declarations of love and eternal devotion out of me. For her, they must have been like receiving a cubic zirconia when she wanted a diamond. Under the circumstances i would have said anything. Yes, i did love her. I still do. But because of the age thing, knew i'd never completely commit to her - there were just too many unscalable chasms between us generationally.

The romantic poet John Keats once wrote about poetry, "It should come as naturally as the leaves to the trees." The same holds true for a sense of committment in a relationship.

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RE: 6 Ways to Have a Miserable D/s Relationship - 6/2/2008 10:40:18 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne

While D/s can enhance a promising relationship, it cannot fix a broken one. Or broken people.

Having muddled through a few D/s relationships now, I think I have learned a few lessons (the hard way :)

quote:

1) Conflict resolution

Every relationship - D/s or otherwise - involves countless day to day power struggles (conflicts). Usually they are resolved by compromise. Sometimes you win; sometimes you lose. It is the dance of give and take necessary if you want a successful long term partnership. Not everyone does, of course. Some people just want serial D/s romance and good luck to them.

You will always loose if you look at an argument as win/lose. We had a thread a while back about "zero sum games" and that when you look at your partner winning as a loss, the relationship is doomed. Sitting down together and figuring out a solution that works for everyone and the relationship is how you make D/s work. Now you you "sit down and figure it" is going to vary but if people feel they are losing if someone else gets something, you aren't a partnership, nor a relationship but a commercial transaction and we already have a word for that.

quote:

2) Understand where power really lies

If someone's power comes from threatening the relationship, they need to rethink what exactly they are doing and what they are calling power.

However, FAR more important is that if this is how you are controlling things, you need to sit down and rethink who you are choosing for partners. You should WANT this person more than anything on earth. If this is just a play/secondary relationship this still holds true, if you only hold over someone is my way or the highway, what exactly are you saying about who you are?

quote:

3) Power play 1: gambling the relationship

If you have decided things are not working for you, then you should leave, if you threaten to leave or "else" then you should think long and hard about what you are doing. Sometimes you DO need to say this in order to get someone to look long and hard at themselves. However, if you do this to gain leverage just to satisfy some need for control, that is some messed up shit

6) Power play 4: love and commit, but make absolutely sure that they love/need you more than you love/need them.

I think a lot of D/s relationships run on this, the dom/me picks some wounded soul who clings to the dom like a liferaft and will do anything TPE for him. Sorry, that isn't dominance, hell that isn't even domineering, that is just pathetic co-dependence dressed in leather.

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RE: 6 Ways to Have a Miserable D/s Relationship - 6/2/2008 10:45:27 PM

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Here is my current favourite: controlling and trapping your partner through lack of communication. Lack of communication sucks. For the person denied communication, it leaves them unable to make decisions with the knowledge that they are being fair and just. It also leaves them on hold, waiting indefinitely till the point where they move on simply out of self preservation. Clear, regular, reliable, honest communication is critical to any relationship and especially to BDSM relationships.

Elan.

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RE: 6 Ways to Have a Miserable D/s Relationship - 6/2/2008 10:47:17 PM

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Thank you for this. I, too, will be saving it if you don't mind.

In poly S/M circles, it seems to be politically incorrect to question the appropriateness or healthiness of a dom's (especially a het male one) "keeping a spare" or spares to keep subs insecure. Few seem able to distinguish between this kind of power-over game playing (by doms who are inevitably themselves way insecure) and the healthy power-over of a consensual authority transfer (which is also possible in a poly context). Frequently both energies are present, and it's hard to know where one ends and the other begins.

I certainly have fallen prey to this one, and to the belittling you mention. To someone like myself who was more or less constantly in some kind of subspace or suggestible space, the daily fault finding, and the qualification of almost all praise with "if only you weren't so..." [whatever], can be devastating.

Some doms combine the belittling with keeping a spare in uniquely abusive ways, such as making comparisons between their subs, to their faces and behind one or more of their backs. I was acquainted with one who would criticize them "privately" to each other, thus not only enhancing the alienation between them, but also (as a bonus) increasing the insecurity factor by tacitly letting each one know he was also criticizing her to the others.

Much has been written, often with great insight and compassion, about the brokenness of submissives, and the power of dominants to protect them, heal them or break them further. I would like to see more about the brokenness of dominants, and the potential for their healing, so that these behaviors decrease.

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RE: 6 Ways to Have a Miserable D/s Relationship - 6/2/2008 10:50:40 PM

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KOM actually expressed this very well. He and his girls have made a committment to thier *relationship.* Collectively, they define what thier parts in it are-and they simply do thier share.

Too many in this look only infatuations with various aspects, whether they be about power (control) sexual, fetishes.....roleplaying.....

These are infirm foundations. Our animal natures are prone to seasonality. And as the seasons change, so will they-and thier various manifestations.

The only thing you can really do is to first hit bedrock. Get over your egos and hang ups first. Name them and own them-and you then have some slight control over your course.

Because you are no longer bumbling along in a fog. Next,look for a life path that you find appealing. Having gotten over your delusions about what you think you are-rather than what you actually are-it will become evident.

Keep in mind that paths have many forks-take the time to wait at the crossings-and choose wisely. And lastly,be VERY careful about to whom you choose to walk beside. They affect those choices too.

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RE: 6 Ways to Have a Miserable D/s Relationship - 6/2/2008 10:56:24 PM

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There are only 6? i can add 3 more for sure. When it comes down to the hard surface, if the relationship can't stand on it's own totally vanilla, then it's time to cut bait and look for another. This is just the fruits of hard work. Been there, done that. Still a diehard masochist, still looking for Her.

_____________________________

jonathan
http://www.slaveregister.com/000-515-587

"But in purple, i am stunning!"
"Before You slip into unconsciousness, i'd like to have another kiss, another flashing chance at bliss, another kiss, another kiss"

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)

RE: 6 Ways to Have a Miserable D/s Relationship - 6/2/2008 11:15:47 PM

lovewithoutfear

Posts: 153
Joined: 7/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

You will always loose if you look at an argument as win/lose. We had a thread a while back about "zero sum games" and that when you look at your partner winning as a loss, the relationship is doomed. Sitting down together and figuring out a solution that works for everyone and the relationship is how you make D/s work. Now you you "sit down and figure it" is going to vary but if people feel they are losing if someone else gets something, you aren't a partnership, nor a relationship but a commercial transaction and we already have a word for that.

This is huge. Somebody remarked that a lot of this applies to vanilla relationships too, and I concur. I was in one where the man saw everything in terms of who's right and who's wrong, and he HAD to be right. Any attempt by me (or, as far as I know, anyone else he was in relationship with) to reframe disagreements in terms of BOTH being right, or to discuss compassionately the needs EACH was trying to meet, was seen as an attempt to "self-justify" and make him wrong. There was no way for anyone to "win" under those conditions. Add a D/s dynamic to this (and I imagine there are many men [edited to add: and women] addicted to being right among the ranks of dominants) and it would be a nightmare.

quote:

6) Power play 4: love and commit, but make absolutely sure that they love/need you more than you love/need them.

I think a lot of D/s relationships run on this, the dom/me picks some wounded soul who clings to the dom like a liferaft and will do anything TPE for him. Sorry, that isn't dominance, hell that isn't even domineering, that is just pathetic co-dependence dressed in leather.

Thank you for this also. I'm glad you pointed out the co-dependence in the dom in this situation, too, not just the clingy sub. I also agree with the woman who said commitment is at least as important as love. If both partners aren't equally committed, there is an unhealthy basis for power in the relationship, which will muddle any healthy basis that exists.

< Message edited by lovewithoutfear -- 6/3/2008 12:03:10 AM >

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

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