RE: ITS ALL BLACK AND WHITE TO ME

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celticlord2112 -> RE: ITS ALL BLACK AND WHITE TO ME (6/4/2008 4:00:15 PM)
quote: Race is a product of socialisation - it has no roots in biology. Welcome to the real world! Race is biology pure and simple. The importance people attach to it, on the other hand, is definitely socialization.

kittinSol -> RE: ITS ALL BLACK AND WHITE TO ME (6/4/2008 4:08:17 PM)
You are wrong, but I'm not in the mood to start giving free lessons in genetics. Good luck in your research.

atursvcMaam -> RE: ITS ALL BLACK AND WHITE TO ME (6/4/2008 4:13:00 PM)
Thanks, working on it, and did not mean to complain. Divorce turned some long term financial plans into short term, and much more costly solutions. The courts, and my own conscience don't allow me to have my children suffer for my misfortune. From a financial point of view, it makes a divorcee a greater risk. Whether they choose the over time route, or they swear they would pay anything to get their ex off their back.

LotusSong -> RE: ITS ALL BLACK AND WHITE TO ME (6/4/2008 4:30:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong Maybe we can finally get rid of the hyphenated American practice now? And all just be American? there is a good (imnsho) way to do this fuck everybody... when there is no race, there is no racism For the record, I am being completely serious... cause I see no other option, as long as people can point and say "they look different" there will be racism, unfortunately thats the way the world is. Nope.. unfortunately that won't stop it. According to a Tyra show I watch a few days ago.. there is a hierarchy of prejudice among the black community with their own variations of skin tone. The ebony hate the caramel , the caramel envies the chocolate, then the chocolate dislikes the "high yellow".. then you have the pecan tan being accused of trying to "pass for white". I don't think it's the white people having trouble with skin shade these days.

DomAviator -> RE: ITS ALL BLACK AND WHITE TO ME (6/4/2008 4:55:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam On the other hand, any recommendations for someone in poor financial shape that would like to resolve that situation without stooping to illegal activity? Flipping burgers at McDonalds or driving a cab can pay the rent and is honorable employment, but takes some time to get that credit rating back up into the acceptable numbers. I really had not planned to get divorced. Been there... Done that. Twice. There are actually a lot of things you can do. For one thing get some credit cards, even if secured, use them and pay them faithfully. Go open a CD at the bank for $500 and pledge it as collatteral on a $500 personal loan. Consolidate debts so as to reduce interest and to start bringing down principle. Finance a vehicle, even if you can afford to pay cash for it. (For example my jet ski - I could have bought cash but I financed it just to have it on the credit report post divorce) Ditto for those "no payments / no interest for six months" deals on furniture. I will take the financing and then pay it off lump sum when it comes due. (Ie instead of buying my livingroom set cash I took the money out stuck it in a 5 month CD, then when it matured took it out and paid off the financing. Another positive reference paid off... If you are truly, royally, positively fucked - form a corporation and get it an EIN. Start with an office max card, then get a company visa, a corporate amex etc... The corporation has a credit identity separate from your own and can own assets, real property, vehicles, etc.... Got that tip from my accountant who is 5 times divorced and still drives a brand new BMW [:D] Plus, if you structure it right she cant touch the corporation or the assets it owns... My ex-wife found herself saying bye bye to a BMW 325xi when we divorced... Because she wasnt entitled to drive "the company car" any more .... She also had no idea that I owned another corporation which owned 9 mobile homes which sat in a shitty low rent trailer park on rented lots (so there were no deeds or property tax bills recorded) which were in turn rented out to the county DSS for $450 per month per unit... (less the $125 per unit lot rent) You cna fix it, been there done that, just get the advice of a good lawyer and accountant and a cooperative bank. Dont fall for those "credit repair" scams.... They DO NOT work and are usually of questionable legality. However, there are tricks you can do legally. Case in point - Wells Fargo Bank has special "Second Chance Fresh Start" rolling loan programs to rebuild your credit - where essentially you keep repaying and reopening the same loan over and over to up your score...

Wildfleurs -> RE: ITS ALL BLACK AND WHITE TO ME (6/4/2008 5:07:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong Nope.. unfortunately that won't stop it. According to a Tyra show I watch a few days ago.. there is a hierarchy of prejudice among the black community with their own variations of skin tone. The ebony hate the caramel , the caramel envies the chocolate, then the chocolate dislikes the "high yellow".. then you have the pecan tan being accused of trying to "pass for white". I don't think it's the white people having trouble with skin shade these days. You get your information on black people from a talk show? Good lord, let me tell you the whole color hierarchy has been in the black community for centuries (literally). Its nothing new at all (for example, in the early 20th century in black clubs, the paper bag was the test as to whether you were light enough to enter). But yes, there's no racism among whites - I mean Barack Obama is the democratic nominee. Thats proof right there that we have completely eliminated racism among whites in America.* C~ * Maybe if we say it enough times the delusion will become reality?

pinksugarsub -> RE: ITS ALL BLACK AND WHITE TO ME (6/4/2008 5:12:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong Maybe we can finally get rid of the hyphenated American practice now? And all just be American? One way to show respect for a P/person is to address T/them in the manner in which T/they prefer; like it or not, the term "Black" has fallen out of favor. It won't kill you to type a few extra letters out of respect for S/someone. Kinda like the change from "Indian" to "Native American". Get it now? pinksugarsub

LotusSong -> RE: ITS ALL BLACK AND WHITE TO ME (6/4/2008 5:15:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs You get your information on black people from a talk show? Good lord, let me tell you the whole color hierarchy has been in the black community for centuries (literally). Its nothing new at all (for example, in the early 20th century in black clubs, the paper bag was the test as to whether you were light enough to enter). But yes, there's no racism among whites - I mean Barack Obama is the democratic nominee. Thats proof right there that we have completely eliminated racism among whites in America.* C~ * Maybe if we say it enough times the delusion will become reality? LOL! She just brought it to light for me. She even told about the paper bag test. Hey, give me credit.. at least I watched the program. Did she say anything untrue? Was I misinformed? Are the blacks not ragging on the Hispanics in Watts? When you describe a person..what is the major feature you list?

pinksugarsub -> RE: ITS ALL BLACK AND WHITE TO ME (6/4/2008 5:16:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong quote: ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong Maybe we can finally get rid of the hyphenated American practice now? And all just be American? there is a good (imnsho) way to do this fuck everybody... when there is no race, there is no racism For the record, I am being completely serious... cause I see no other option, as long as people can point and say "they look different" there will be racism, unfortunately thats the way the world is. Nope.. unfortunately that won't stop it. According to a Tyra show I watch a few days ago.. there is a hierarchy of prejudice among the black community with their own variations of skin tone. The ebony hate the caramel , the caramel envies the chocolate, then the chocolate dislikes the "high yellow".. then you have the pecan tan being accused of trying to "pass for white". I don't think it's the white people having trouble with skin shade these days. i find your posts on this subject to be consistently looney. pinksugarsub

Irishknight -> RE: ITS ALL BLACK AND WHITE TO ME (6/4/2008 5:24:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong Maybe we can finally get rid of the hyphenated American practice now? And all just be American? One way to show respect for a P/person is to address T/them in the manner in which T/they prefer; like it or not, the term "Black" has fallen out of favor. It won't kill you to type a few extra letters out of respect for S/someone. Kinda like the change from "Indian" to "Native American". Get it now? pinksugarsub Most of the native americans I know had no problem with "indian." In fact, most of them seem to think the changing of mascots on sports teams out of some sudden guilt complex is ridiculous. The term I hear most of them use referring to those who threw such a fit is "extremely vocal minority" of thier people.

LotusSong -> RE: ITS ALL BLACK AND WHITE TO ME (6/4/2008 5:25:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub One way to show respect for a P/person is to address T/them in the manner in which T/they prefer; like it or not, the term "Black" has fallen out of favor. It won't kill you to type a few extra letters out of respect for S/someone. Kinda like the change from "Indian" to "Native American". Get it now? pinksugarsub I've been through it all. First there was Nego..then colored, then black then African- American.. I think there were a few more sprinkled in there until one came up they kept. Does a white of South African decent call himself African-American also or is it all dependent upon skin tone? How many would think Caucasian-American might be just a little too aggrandizing? My god, if we were to announce our race and expect others to acknowledge it with every address..we'd be run out of the PC town on a rail. My ancestors came to America and settled in and became Americans- period.

Asherdelampyr -> RE: ITS ALL BLACK AND WHITE TO ME (6/4/2008 5:32:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong Maybe we can finally get rid of the hyphenated American practice now? And all just be American? One way to show respect for a P/person is to address T/them in the manner in which T/they prefer; like it or not, the term "Black" has fallen out of favor. It won't kill you to type a few extra letters out of respect for S/someone. Kinda like the change from "Indian" to "Native American". Get it now? pinksugarsub The manner I prefer to be addressed is either God or Saint Bastard.... (even have a t-shirt for the scond one :P) Does that mean that people should call me these things? Im perfectly happy with American, even though most of my ancestors were gypsy, I live in America, My ancestors came to America to escape the Nazis... and American I am, and my um Now, when I refer to my moms fiance' as my "Big Black Stepdaddy" he smiles and laughs, he doesnt get offended.... Now what both he and I find very very offensive is this generizational bullshit PC going around. You really want to respect someone, call them by name, or friend

Irishknight -> RE: ITS ALL BLACK AND WHITE TO ME (6/4/2008 5:39:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr The manner I prefer to be addressed is either God or Saint Bastard.... (even have a t-shirt for the scond one :P) Does that mean that people should call me these things? Im perfectly happy with American, even though most of my ancestors were gypsy, I live in America, My ancestors came to America to escape the Nazis... and American I am, and my um Now, when I refer to my moms fiance' as my "Big Black Stepdaddy" he smiles and laughs, he doesnt get offended.... Now what both he and I find very very offensive is this generizational bullshit PC going around. You really want to respect someone, call them by name, or friend Saint Bastard? I love that! That last line says it all.

Alumbrado -> RE: ITS ALL BLACK AND WHITE TO ME (6/4/2008 5:40:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Irishknight Most of the native americans I know had no problem with "indian." In fact, most of them seem to think the changing of mascots on sports teams out of some sudden guilt complex is ridiculous. The term I hear most of them use referring to those who threw such a fit is "extremely vocal minority" of thier people. Really? Do they routinely refer to their daughters or parents as 'Redskins', or 'half-breeds' (Semi-neaux)? Or put on religious raiment and roll around grabbing their crotches for a good clean laugh from a predominantly white audience? http://jayrosenstein.com/pages/honor.html http://www.nativevillage.org/Messages%20from%20the%20People/timeline%20for%20Indian%20Mascots.htm

Hippiekinkster -> RE: ITS ALL BLACK AND WHITE TO ME (6/4/2008 5:42:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 Race is biology pure and simple. Complete and total bullshit.

Asherdelampyr -> RE: ITS ALL BLACK AND WHITE TO ME (6/4/2008 5:43:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Irishknight quote: ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr The manner I prefer to be addressed is either God or Saint Bastard.... (even have a t-shirt for the scond one :P) Does that mean that people should call me these things? Im perfectly happy with American, even though most of my ancestors were gypsy, I live in America, My ancestors came to America to escape the Nazis... and American I am, and my um Now, when I refer to my moms fiance' as my "Big Black Stepdaddy" he smiles and laughs, he doesnt get offended.... Now what both he and I find very very offensive is this generizational bullshit PC going around. You really want to respect someone, call them by name, or friend Saint Bastard? I love that! That last line says it all. yeah, its from Eddy Izzard's Dress to kill "What have you been reading, the gospel according to Saint Bastard?" it was my nickname in high school back on to the op... does Barrack Oboma mean that racism is dead? hell no, but it is a very positive step in the left direction, and I am glad to see it

DomAviator -> RE: ITS ALL BLACK AND WHITE TO ME (6/4/2008 5:45:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong Maybe we can finally get rid of the hyphenated American practice now? And all just be American? One way to show respect for a P/person is to address T/them in the manner in which T/they prefer; like it or not, the term "Black" has fallen out of favor. It won't kill you to type a few extra letters out of respect for S/someone. Kinda like the change from "Indian" to "Native American". Get it now? pinksugarsub Apparently what blacks want to be called this week is, at least in Houston, "Black". At least thats what Quanell X our local self described "black leader" said on the TV news yesterday when he was talking about the "triumph for the black man" and a "great day to be black" ... However, we have been through "Negro", "Colored", "Person of Color" , "Black", "African American", "African-American" "Black-American", "American of African Ancestry" , "African Heritage American" , "Displaced African Person", "Man of Color", and a half a dozen other monikers and they vary week to week and based upon which particular activist you are listening to.... I believe Obama's preacher also prefers "black" - though I have heard him use the N word frequently in his videotaped sermons so maybe he likes that better - I really dont know. I thought it was an offensive term but he sure uses it a lot ... Funny thing is the rather dark complexioned astronaut who lives in my neighborhood likes to be called "Lee" or "Bubba"... He doesnt seem to feel the need to have a racial designation assigned to him....

slaveboyforyou -> RE: ITS ALL BLACK AND WHITE TO ME (6/4/2008 5:48:58 PM)
quote: I actually fully agree with the use of credit scores as a factor in jobs of any real signifigance. It goes to charector, trustworthiness, and potential to be turned... For example take a job as menial as an airline baggage handler.... I dont want some guy who is so deep in hock that he is in danger of losing his house having the temptation that all he has to do is load this ONE piece of unscreened baggage into the hold and his financial worries are over. It wouldnt even have to be al queda, it could be a hazmat like an acetylene cylinder that shouldnt be flown.... Likewise, I dont want to be pulled over by a cop who cant live on his salary because hes the guy who is gonna be looking for "donations".... In your biz for instance, I dont want a computer tech whose drowning to be working on my laptop. There is too much there that is valuable... Whether its stored passwords for my online banking / credit cards, info to get a new identity, or business info that I have competitors who would pay handsomely for..... Credit goes to trust. If the bank cant trust someone, why should I ? All kidding aside, think about what most of us have on our computers - it is the answer to sombodys prayers! (Whether an illegal alien looking for a social, or a financial windfall that will solve someones problems through theft, espionage, insider trading, or blackmail.) I absolutely agree with you Aviator. When I was going through the application process for my last job; I had to agree to a full credit check, criminal background check, academic record check, and submit to a interview with an FBI agent. I wasn't happy about it. It took 3 months for them to go through all of this before I could start working. But I understood why they needed to do it. I was applying for a job with a government sub-contracter where I would have access to personal information on millions of citizens. When I was in my early 20's I did some stupid things while I was going to college. I got arrested for drinking in public and getting into fights. I had to explain all of that to an FBI agent during the background check interview. I was embarrassed; I hated it. But the FBI agent read the reports, and he laughed. He told me that I was quite common. He ran into that all the time. Likewise, people have bad credit. It happens, and unless you have really shitty credit....it's not going to be a big deal.

Irishknight -> RE: ITS ALL BLACK AND WHITE TO ME (6/4/2008 5:51:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado quote: ORIGINAL: Irishknight Most of the native americans I know had no problem with "indian." In fact, most of them seem to think the changing of mascots on sports teams out of some sudden guilt complex is ridiculous. The term I hear most of them use referring to those who threw such a fit is "extremely vocal minority" of thier people. Really? Do they routinely refer to their daughters or parents as 'Redskins', or 'half-breeds' (Semi-neaux)? Or put on religious raiment and roll around grabbing their crotches for a good clean laugh from a predominantly white audience? http://jayrosenstein.com/pages/honor.html http://www.nativevillage.org/Messages%20from%20the%20People/timeline%20for%20Indian%20Mascots.htm Actually, they do use the term redskins. Are you referring to the "Seminole?" They refer to themselves by that particular name even on the official tribal website. A number of them stated in public interviews that they didn't care what the team name is. As for the rest, they don't even acknowledge the stupidity of the rolling around and acting stupid. They leave the stupidity and ignorance to others.

dcnovice -> RE: ITS ALL BLACK AND WHITE TO ME (6/4/2008 6:01:21 PM)
<fast reply> Earlier in the thread, the question arose as to whether race was "biological." My impression from my eclectic reading is that scientists tend to regard race as an unscientific social construct, but I confess I don't have a source handy. The following links may be useful to folks interested in the topic. Social Science Research Council: Is Race "Real"? PBS: Race--The Power of an Illusion

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