RE: A Domme's Responsibilities to her sub

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Madame4a -> RE: A Domme's Responsibilities to her sub (6/6/2008 9:51:57 AM)
"Let's just appreciate the simplicity and beauty of what was said instead of tearing it apart based on jaded happenings of the past, cynicism, and practicality. " I'm really quite happy to allow you to react to it the way you wish... would you allow me the same please, without telling me how I should react? I'm obviously different than you, in fact, very I'd suggest.. so I'm likely to react differently... I would not characterize my reaction as cynical -- you don't really know me. I don't have jaded happenings of the past. Here is the original question asked: "I'm curious as to what the Dommes and subs on this board think about what it says and implies about the nature of our dynamic and the responsibilties a Domme has to her sub. " so.. I said what I thought...

MsStarlett -> RE: A Domme's Responsibilities to her sub (6/6/2008 9:58:12 AM)
Well Said.

HieroV -> RE: A Domme's Responsibilities to her sub (6/6/2008 9:59:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama I suppose if I was to alter this piece at all, I would change the tone slightly to show more respect for the submissive's accomplishments and agency? This promise makes it sound a bit as if the submissive must be a complete neophyte and much less intelligent and capable than I am...and I might add a line in which I promised to willingly and gracefully receive love, support and wisdom if it was needed. "I promise that I will not pretend to be omnipotent or superhuman to hide my own vulnerability" is a vow that more dominants need to make and keep, in my opinion. Clap, clap, clap. HieroV

rubberpet -> RE: A Domme's Responsibilities to her sub (6/6/2008 10:04:36 AM)
Madame4a, my last post was not directed at you. I did not specifically call you cynical. It was a generalized statement as to how society has seemed to have lost the belief that something sweet and beautiful is attainable. You are free to think and react in whatever way you choose. I wasn't telling you in any way how you should react. You simply made your statement and I made mine. I was not trying to offend anyone or ruffle anyone's feathers. I was simply posting my opinion on a discussion board. You may not do any of the things the author spoke of, and you may do all of them...I don't know. I say whatever works for you, more power to ya. I know that my owner does all of the things mentioned, so I believe what the author was saying is attainable.

MySweetSubmssive -> RE: A Domme's Responsibilities to her sub (6/6/2008 10:06:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rubberpet It's a shame so many people who've responded seem to be cynical. They tend to think of things like "practicality". (smiling) I'll respond. I think this poem is pie-in-sky when it comes to a D/s ethos, but I also think it is lacking as a piece of literature (it's schlocky). I have a few favorite poems that are not specifically about D/s, but emotionally touch what I have experienced with a submissive partner. Two of those poems are "somewhere i have never travelled .. " by e.e. cummings and "The Country of Marriage" by Wendell Berry. Both of these make me melt. I'm about practicality. I'm also about connection. The two are not mutually exclusive -- I would say that they support each other. Mss

Madame4a -> RE: A Domme's Responsibilities to her sub (6/6/2008 10:13:01 AM)
well said... [sm=agree.gif] particularly with the literary merits of this...or lack thereof

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: A Domme's Responsibilities to her sub (6/6/2008 12:16:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pixelslave quote: Original: SylvereApLeanan it's setting up a false ideal of Teh Perfecshun of Twue Domliness I think as you pointed out later in your post that "As an ideal, it might be worth striving for". I don't think I made myself sufficiently clear. Please allow me to attempt to correct the error. This is something to strive for only in the sense that we should all strive toward something greater than ourselves, in a spiritual sense. However, it should not be set up as an example of what a "real twue Dominate" should be. I can strive to live up to the teachings of Lord Krsna (or Christ, or any other mythic figure of perfection), but in reality, I am a human and I will fall far short of the mark. These "rules" are completely unrealistic. Example: According to this, I must be in control of myself at all times. My parents are elderly, both approaching 80 years of age. When one or both of them dies, I will not be in control of myself. In fact, I reserve the right to lose any semblance of control. I don't think I should be expected to control myself in that situation, but if I'm to live up to those "promises" then I must. I call bullshit. Sorry. Expecting anyone other than Stepford Domme to live up to these "rules" is setting up the dominant for failure and the slave for disappointment and resentment when it happens. If the Domme is at all affectionate toward her slave, then she will also experience disappointment and guilt at her own failure. How is this, in any way, healthy? quote: quote: If the dominant is unable to follow through on these promises for whatever reason, must the relationship be disolved on those grounds? I personally don't think a Dominant should be making promises they know they can't keep. There are always emergencies and things that happen, but that shouldn't be the rule. Bingo. I don't make promises I can't keep. Therefore, I don't like the piece, think it's mostly a load of self-righteous crap, and would never make any of those promises. If one is looking for the Harlequin Romance of BDSM, this piece qualifies. However, I'm looking for reality in my relationships. Would I put up with a slave who consistently broke promises? No, but that doesn't mean I'd end the relationship either. Clearly, it means we need to reexamine the promises she's making and why she's unable to follow through. Am I asking too much of her? Is she asking too much of herself? Are we overestimating her abilities in some way or the demands on her time? Are my instructions clear or is there some inconsistency leading to confusion that prevents her from upholding her end? Is there a deeper emotional issue causing interference that needs to be addressed? I don't hold anyone to a higher standard than I hold myself and I'm a perfectionist. There are still too many variables and this piece is too simplistic to serve any real purpose. And then there's the issue of the Dominant taking responsibility for every aspect of the slave's life. Lemme think about that for a minute...no. I have no interest in a doormat. I have two UMs, I don't need another dependent. I want my slave to be responsible for her own life and her own welfare. I want her to be intelligent and competent. I want my slave to be patient and understanding when I'm less than perfect, I want her to be wise and give me the benefit of her wisdom when I'm unable to sufficiently distance myself from a situation. I want her to be a person first and foremost and my slave because she loves me, wants to see me happy, and knows that having her at my feet creates a situation in which I find happiness. I want her to serve joyfully and find fulfillment in it, but I don't want to be held responsible for making her feel like a whole person. There's a recipe for disaster if ever there was one. I don't see any of that anywhere in this piece. Reading the rest of your comments on the bit, I don't think our POVs are terribly far apart. My biggest issue with the piece is that it states the Dominant's self is rooted in both reality and fantasy but the list of "promises" are clearly nothing but romantic fantasy. There's nothing wrong with romantic fantasy as long as it's acknowledged for what it is and people don't hang entire relationships on it. I see no such acknowledgement here. That's why it sets my teeth on edge.

MISTRESSKUMA -> RE: A Domme's Responsibilities to her sub (6/6/2008 12:23:28 PM)
a romantic fantasy most easily believed by those not living it out in the REAL world but more so over the phone or on the internet.

pixelslave -> RE: A Domme's Responsibilities to her sub (6/6/2008 1:48:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan quote: ORIGINAL: pixelslave quote: Original: SylvereApLeanan it's setting up a false ideal of Teh Perfecshun of Twue Domliness I think as you pointed out later in your post that "As an ideal, it might be worth striving for". I don't think I made myself sufficiently clear. Please allow me to attempt to correct the error. Of course! [&:] quote: This is something to strive for only in the sense that we should all strive toward something greater than ourselves, in a spiritual sense. However, it should not be set up as an example of what a "real twue Dominate" should be. I can strive to live up to the teachings of Lord Krsna (or Christ, or any other mythic figure of perfection), but in reality, I am a human and I will fall far short of the mark. I think we're in agreement here. I constantly strive to become a better man and reach a higher plane of enlightenment, but being human, frequently fall short of the mark. [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m23.gif[/image] quote: These "rules" are completely unrealistic. Example: According to this, I must be in control of myself at all times. My parents are elderly, both approaching 80 years of age. When one or both of them dies, I will not be in control of myself. In fact, I reserve the right to lose any semblance of control. I don't think I should be expected to control myself in that situation, but if I'm to live up to those "promises" then I must. I call bullshit. Sorry. I didn't at all see them as "rules" per say. Releasing one's emotions of grief in a situation such as you describe is a time that I'd think would be completely understandable and a time during which I'd hope you'd allow your submissive to provide emotional support. By being in control of yourself, I take that to mean primarily taking care of your physical and emotional needs plus those which are financial or necessary for every day living. In addition to that, to me, it means being able to control one's impulses or reactions to others in public or their partners in private such that they respond to them in a level headed manner, not one from irrational anger. Your definition of course may differ. quote: Expecting anyone other than Stepford Domme to live up to these "rules" is setting up the dominant for failure and the slave for disappointment and resentment when it happens. If the Domme is at all affectionate toward her slave, then she will also experience disappointment and guilt at her own failure. How is this, in any way, healthy? What you describe wouldn't be healthy in my opinion. But again, I don't see what was written as "rules", only something to strive for. I also don't see carrying guilt over one's inability to live up to an ideal as emotionally healthy either. quote: quote: quote: If the dominant is unable to follow through on these promises for whatever reason, must the relationship be disolved on those grounds? I personally don't think a Dominant should be making promises they know they can't keep. There are always emergencies and things that happen, but that shouldn't be the rule. Bingo. I don't make promises I can't keep. Therefore, I don't like the piece, think it's mostly a load of self-righteous crap, and would never make any of those promises. If one is looking for the Harlequin Romance of BDSM, this piece qualifies. However, I'm looking for reality in my relationships. Would I put up with a slave who consistently broke promises? No, but that doesn't mean I'd end the relationship either. Clearly, it means we need to reexamine the promises she's making and why she's unable to follow through. Am I asking too much of her? Is she asking too much of herself? Are we overestimating her abilities in some way or the demands on her time? Are my instructions clear or is there some inconsistency leading to confusion that prevents her from upholding her end? Is there a deeper emotional issue causing interference that needs to be addressed? I don't hold anyone to a higher standard than I hold myself and I'm a perfectionist. There are still too many variables and this piece is too simplistic to serve any real purpose. Your comments here seem consistent with mine. If you want to view the piece entirely as Harlequin, that's of course your choice. I'm not trying to defend the piece, only ask how others view it for the purpose of discussion. I don't see it as perfect as I believe my own comments on it would clearly seem to demonstrate. quote: And then there's the issue of the Dominant taking responsibility for every aspect of the slave's life. Lemme think about that for a minute...no. I have no interest in a doormat. I have two UMs, I don't need another dependent. I want my slave to be responsible for her own life and her own welfare. I want her to be intelligent and competent. I want my slave to be patient and understanding when I'm less than perfect, I want her to be wise and give me the benefit of her wisdom when I'm unable to sufficiently distance myself from a situation. I want her to be a person first and foremost and my slave because she loves me, wants to see me happy, and knows that having her at my feet creates a situation in which I find happiness. I want her to serve joyfully and find fulfillment in it, but I don't want to be held responsible for making her feel like a whole person. There's a recipe for disaster if ever there was one. I don't see any of that anywhere in this piece. Here we're in 100% agreement! I think I commented briefly on the subject myself. [&:] quote: Reading the rest of your comments on the bit, I don't think our POVs are terribly far apart. My biggest issue with the piece is that it states the Dominant's self is rooted in both reality and fantasy but the list of "promises" are clearly nothing but romantic fantasy. There's nothing wrong with romantic fantasy as long as it's acknowledged for what it is and people don't hang entire relationships on it. I see no such acknowledgement here. That's why it sets my teeth on edge. I don't think our POV's are very far apart either. This piece clearly wouldn't suffice as the Dominant's part of a D/s contract. It's seems to me that it's likely something of a romantic piece written by the Dominant to his submissive; perhaps to reassure her regarding the nature of their relationship. I obviously can't say since I don't know the origin, but I do think it says something about their dynamic and the *Dominant's ideal* of the standard he wanted to set for himself at the time he wrote it. That's why I chose to post it here for comments. - pixel

DominantJenny -> RE: A Domme's Responsibilities to her sub (6/6/2008 2:23:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pixelslave It's seems to me that it's likely something of a romantic piece written by the Dominant to his submissive; perhaps to reassure her regarding the nature of their relationship. I obviously can't say since I don't know the origin, but I do think it says something about their dynamic and the *Dominant's ideal* of the standard he wanted to set for himself at the time he wrote it. That's why I chose to post it here for comments. - pixel I think, correct me if I'm wrong, that perhaps part of the motivation in posting this was noting that we don't see much of this sort of thing on the F/m side, and that maybe it would be nice to see occasionally? Sort of a "guys need a little romance, too" thing...

LadyPact -> RE: A Domme's Responsibilities to her sub (6/6/2008 2:38:26 PM)
I am very much in agreement with SA. Though the number is few (I can count it on one hand), there are people in My life that, if I lost them, the grief would be inconsolable. I would absolutely not consider Myself "in control" if I had to endure the grief of losing them. I can not always promise to be "in control" of My health, as I mentioned earlier. I can not always promise to be "in control" of My finances, should for some reason I become unemployed for a long term. Even without such extreme circumstances, let's get down to the brass tacks of the matter. I'm human. I screw up. I make mistakes. I need My sub to understand that about Me, just like I do about him. It doesn't mean that I don't strive to improve Myself, learn more, but it also means that it's a process, just like he is also a process. Those expectations of perfection, can really come back to haunt a person.

vampchick88 -> RE: A Domme's Responsibilities to her sub (6/6/2008 2:59:16 PM)
I like rubberpet's first post and it is correct. I do live up to a certain creed, it not something that I read in a book and feel as though I should adhere to, its only that my relationship, love, and dominance for pet allow me to show a nuturing and caring side of myself as well. I do that on my own decision because for me its the only way to have a lasting relationship, hardcore bdsm with lots of suffering in rubber for pet and afterwards me being compassionate for what he's willing to do for me. In my mind its the least I can do. Thank you pet~Lorelei

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: A Domme's Responsibilities to her sub (6/6/2008 3:05:51 PM)
Just because I was bored and had time, I did a little editing. Naturally, it only applies to me and wouldn't work for everyone but I think it's more realistic without losing too much of the romance. A Dominant's Promise As the Dominant to my submissive I know that she gives herself to me in mind, body, heart and spirit and does so of her own volition. In each other we have placed confidence, reliance, faith, hope, and trust. I will endeavor to ensure my submissive's needs and desires are learned, and her limits are respected when she needs them to be respected and pushed when she wants them to be pushed. I understand that the gift of herself is priceless and will cherish her always. Through my actions, I will demonstrate that I am competent and responsible, thus allowing my submissive to place her trust in me and submit to my will without regret. I accept responsibility for the consequences of my actions and endeavor to ensure that each decision I make with regard to her is the best for her physical and emotional welfare. Never will I knowingly place my submissive in jeopardy, nor will I intentionally compromise the trust she has placed in me. In order to bring my submissive to new heights of pleasure, I will endeavor to achieve a working knowledge of all aspects of the lifestyle that appeal to us, thus allowing me to be the Dominant that she so richly deserves. When she has more knowledge or experience than I in any aspect of our chosen lifestyle, I will allow her to help guide my learning process. I will honor and protect my submissive to the best of my ability, showing that my love for her will provide a safe harbor in times of adversity. My Dominant self is rooted both in reality and integrity, never allowing the fantasy world to overtake the real world. In times of distress and hardship, I will provide for my submissive a supportive partner and confidante. In this way, is my role as Dominant most elegantly fulfilled. While often demanding and strict, I will always kiss away any tears she may shed and show my submissive my heart belongs to her. I vow never to lift a hand to my submissive in anger. If punishment is needed it shall always be delivered with a tender and discerning hand, for a valid reason, and only after thorough communication has failed to correct the problem. I pledge to my submissive patience, understanding, and commitment allowing us to grow as individuals and nurture the bond we have established so that it may withstand the test of time. Above all else, I will wear the title of Dominant with great honor.

pixelslave -> RE: A Domme's Responsibilities to her sub (6/6/2008 3:11:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DominantJenny quote: ORIGINAL: pixelslave It's seems to me that it's likely something of a romantic piece written by the Dominant to his submissive; perhaps to reassure her regarding the nature of their relationship. I obviously can't say since I don't know the origin, but I do think it says something about their dynamic and the *Dominant's ideal* of the standard he wanted to set for himself at the time he wrote it. That's why I chose to post it here for comments. - pixel I think, correct me if I'm wrong, that perhaps part of the motivation in posting this was noting that we don't see much of this sort of thing on the F/m side, and that maybe it would be nice to see occasionally? Sort of a "guys need a little romance, too" thing... Perhaps there's some of motivation of the kind you suggest DominatJenny, but I think I was posting it more from the view that as a male submissive I frequently see women here posting from the "It's all about me" perspective with little regard to the needs of the submissive. To me, there are two sides to the coin. What's a Dominant without a submissive? If my "tank" isn't regularly filled as a submissive by my Dominant, it's eventually going to run dry. What happens then? I've been there and I can tell you. I'll lose my motivation to serve and will walk away, ending the relationship. So yes, I need things too, including romance and to know that I'm valued for what I bring to the relationship. To me, it's an exchange, not a one-way street. I need security in a relationship and not be made to feel as though I'm easily replaceable simply because there are so many other male submissives out there that would like to have a Mistress to serve. I'm unique and bring certain things to a relationship with me that the others won't necessarily have. Contrary to what some seem to have focused on, I don't expect perfection when I don't have it to offer. But I do expect someone to generally have their stuff together, just as I'd expect the same if the woman was vanilla that I was considering having a relationship with. The difference is I want to be valued and appreciated for being a man who's submissive to a woman, one Dominant woman in particular who knows what to do with my submission to her. That's something a vanilla woman won't have an appreciation for, won't value, or have the slightest clue what to do with. - pixel

pixelslave -> RE: A Domme's Responsibilities to her sub (6/6/2008 3:24:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I am very much in agreement with SA. Though the number is few (I can count it on one hand), there are people in My life that, if I lost them, the grief would be inconsolable. I would absolutely not consider Myself "in control" if I had to endure the grief of losing them. I can not always promise to be "in control" of My health, as I mentioned earlier. I can not always promise to be "in control" of My finances, should for some reason I become unemployed for a long term. Even without such extreme circumstances, let's get down to the brass tacks of the matter. I'm human. I screw up. I make mistakes. I need My sub to understand that about Me, just like I do about him. It doesn't mean that I don't strive to improve Myself, learn more, but it also means that it's a process, just like he is also a process. Those expectations of perfection, can really come back to haunt a person. Lady Pact, I think what you've said is perfectly realistic. I don't think anyone could expect more. I know you well enough to know that you strive to be the very best you can. There are many things in life we have no control over. Getting laid off or losing one's job for reasons beyond our control would be one of them. I believe you to be a hard worker and couldn't imagine you losing your job because of slacking or incompetence. We have no control over when someone close to us might be injured or pass-on to the other side. Grieving their loss is only natural and emotionally healthy. Any sub who doesn't realize that isn't one who doesn't deserve you as their Mistress. I'd hope they'd be there to support you during your time of loss as any good friend or loved one would. In a sense, you're going through that now as your S/O and clip go to different parts of the world to serve their country; placing themselves in danger and leaving you without them for a period of time. I hope that time passes quickly and they both return safely.(gentle smile) - pixel

pixelslave -> RE: A Domme's Responsibilities to her sub (6/6/2008 3:30:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan Just because I was bored and had time, I did a little editing. Naturally, it only applies to me and wouldn't work for everyone but I think it's more realistic without losing too much of the romance. Very nice. I like what you've written, particularly knowing you feel it fits your dynamic. BTW, I especially liked the last line about wearing the title of Dominant with honor. [:D] - pixel

DominantJenny -> RE: A Domme's Responsibilities to her sub (6/6/2008 5:02:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pixelslave Perhaps there's some of motivation of the kind you suggest DominatJenny, but I think I was posting it more from the view that as a male submissive I frequently see women here posting from the "It's all about me" perspective with little regard to the needs of the submissive. To me, there are two sides to the coin. What's a Dominant without a submissive? If my "tank" isn't regularly filled as a submissive by my Dominant, it's eventually going to run dry. What happens then? I've been there and I can tell you. I'll lose my motivation to serve and will walk away, ending the relationship. So yes, I need things too, including romance and to know that I'm valued for what I bring to the relationship. To me, it's an exchange, not a one-way street. I need security in a relationship and not be made to feel as though I'm easily replaceable simply because there are so many other male submissives out there that would like to have a Mistress to serve. I'm unique and bring certain things to a relationship with me that the others won't necessarily have. Contrary to what some seem to have focused on, I don't expect perfection when I don't have it to offer. But I do expect someone to generally have their stuff together, just as I'd expect the same if the woman was vanilla that I was considering having a relationship with. The difference is I want to be valued and appreciated for being a man who's submissive to a woman, one Dominant woman in particular who knows what to do with my submission to her. That's something a vanilla woman won't have an appreciation for, won't value, or have the slightest clue what to do with. - pixel You know, that's a really good point...male submissives, in particular, are vulnerable to the "there are SO many other fish in the sea" thing. I understand what you're saying and I think I'm going to try to write something myself specifically about appreciating a man who's submissive to a woman. nodnod For now, I definitely value and appreciate my guy...and, for that matter, several of the guys here in a more platonic sense. :)

LadyHibiscus -> RE: A Domme's Responsibilities to her sub (6/6/2008 5:47:32 PM)
I take my role as a dominant seriously, but I have never seen myself as a surrogate parent/boss/deity. I am a dominant, not a brain slug!! Yes, I will do my best by my man, and I sure hope he would do the same for me! I am not going to think for him, make every tiny life decision, protect him from everything bad (though yeah, I wish I could do that for everyone I love...) and set MYSELF up to be the arbiter of all things. Why would I put that level of pressure on myself, and let him have it easy? I cannot begin to tell you how many men have approached me with just that mindset. Shoot, I would never want that level of responsibility for anyone that I didn't give birth to! Besides, doesn't he have skills, and a brain? You know he does, if he is with me![:D] I picked that brain so I could use it, or rather HE can, to entertain me and help me get through the day. Submission is not a gift. No one ever says that dominance is a gift, do they? They do NOT. We are exchanging ourselves here, there is no one-sided Here you are kthx! with nothing given in return. I deeply appreciate submission, but when I don't feel that appreciation being returned...I lose interest fast.

LPslittleclip -> RE: A Domme's Responsibilities to her sub (6/6/2008 5:48:06 PM)
i look at the OP as more a heart felt desire to be the Dom for the sub. not being versed in the literary masters myself it seems to speak from the soul of the Dom and intended for the submissive of the Dom. looking at it in the context of a love pome created by the burning love for the one intended it shows a great desire of perfection for the protected. I'm not a perfect submissive and i don't expect my M'lady to be perfect. i love her as she is, not some idea of a perfect Dominant. to the writer of the quoted lines i espouse the heart felt love you have for you sub and wish you many happy returns in your love and your life

rubberpet -> RE: A Domme's Responsibilities to her sub (6/6/2008 9:58:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vampchick88 I like rubberpet's first post and it is correct. I do live up to a certain creed, it not something that I read in a book and feel as though I should adhere to, its only that my relationship, love, and dominance for pet allow me to show a nuturing and caring side of myself as well. I do that on my own decision because for me its the only way to have a lasting relationship, hardcore bdsm with lots of suffering in rubber for pet and afterwards me being compassionate for what he's willing to do for me. In my mind its the least I can do. Thank you pet~Lorelei You are who you are, my queen. All the little (and sometimes diabolical) things you do make me proud and honored to wear your collar. [:)]

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