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Inconsistent Master - 10/28/2005 8:33:48 AM

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I am a novice sub, introduced to this lifestyle by a Dom who I had struck up a friendship with. We have had about half a dozen encounters, D/s sexual in nature. Very intense for me and seemingly pleasing to us both. I cannot speak for him, of course, but all indications have been there.

Lately, though he is indicating an interest in training me when we are together, we have little contact in between, not a very nurturing situation. He is a busy person, and I am not high maintenance, but I think that when establishing a relationship, vanilla or D/s, there should be a good deal of communication to establish the bond of trust and give the couple a solid foundation.

I have sent him a note to request some discussion about limits before we proceed any further into this. So far no response. But now the decision is in his hands in all respects except one. I am not ready to just abandon the hope of something good developing from this, but may have to if he is unresponsive and remains inconsistent in communicating with me.

Have any of you been through an experience like this? I am not sure what is expected of me except honesty,openness and a desire and willingness to submit, which I have demonstrated to him.

abbie

RE: Inconsistent Master - 10/28/2005 8:37:35 AM

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Yes- it's called a guy being inconsistent and letting you know what a relationship will be like.

Why do so many people (stereotypically women) get into relationships HOPING the other person will change? Why do you lie down and just pray they will pick you up?

He's showing you exactly who he is, right here and now. Do you want to be with that person? Will he make you fulfilled?

A few hot intense sessions does not a long term relationship make.

You're likely in frenzy, stay single for at least six months and see what your perspective is then.

< Message edited by EmeraldSlave2 -- 10/28/2005 8:38:18 AM >

(in reply to abondanzaisme)

RE: Inconsistent Master - 10/28/2005 8:38:00 AM

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Joined: 5/19/2005
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Hello There,
I agree with things just starting between you two you need to have a lot of conversations about expectations & choices for you both.
If he's claiming to be overly busy you should try to get him to bring you over to his home address on his license to make sure he's not married and playing without consent of his spouse.
Over all just relax and take your time in getting to know him. I agree to not let him rush you would be the way to proceed.
Sincerely,
sub suzanne

(in reply to abondanzaisme)

RE: Inconsistent Master - 10/28/2005 8:41:30 AM

Heinz

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Joined: 4/19/2005
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In MY opinion you did it in the good way. Nobody can start a BDSM relationship without an discussion before, specilaly about the limits.
Theire are so many things you have to discuss, thinks about involving others, the time you can spend for each orher, eventuely rules you have to follow. atc. etc.
a sub or sg is giving herself away and therefore you need trust.

Master Heinz

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Heinz, from Holland (Europe)

(in reply to abondanzaisme)

RE: Inconsistent Master - 10/28/2005 8:47:31 AM

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What ES2 said, but double.

This is an example of what's to come...............

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Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly ! !

(in reply to abondanzaisme)

RE: Inconsistent Master - 10/28/2005 8:49:08 AM

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Joined: 10/7/2005
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Here is the truth. You said the two of you were "friends".

That is the clue. He likes using you for sex play, but he isn't into you for anything else. So you are not a priority in his life.

And it isn't only doms who treat people this way, I was used by a sub this way last year. It's not a lot of fun.

Get out and find someone whom you like who also likes you.

Good luck, and I hope you find your hearts desire.

Wolf

(in reply to abondanzaisme)

RE: Inconsistent Master - 10/28/2005 9:09:10 AM

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i triple what es2 said

(in reply to wolfinside)

RE: Inconsistent Master - 10/28/2005 9:15:59 AM

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From: Pennsylvania
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quote:

I am not ready to just abandon the hope of something good developing from this, but may have to if he is unresponsive and remains inconsistent in communicating with me.

He sounds distant to me and that can be frustrating. And unfortunately, it probably isn't going to improve. Some people are cold and you aren't going to change him into what you want him to be.

(in reply to RiotGirl)

RE: Inconsistent Master - 10/28/2005 9:50:40 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: abondanzaisme
Have any of you been through an experience like this? I am not sure what is expected of me except honesty,openness and a desire and willingness to submit, which I have demonstrated to him.

Whether this relationship is one that works for you is something only you can decide - there is no way from the information given anyone on this forum can actually tell you anything useful about your specific situation. Thats because these things are ALWAYS more complicated than a few paragraphs can convey.

(in reply to abondanzaisme)

RE: Inconsistent Master - 10/28/2005 10:26:26 AM

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Joined: 6/20/2005
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there is a book, its a vanilla book, but pertains to anyone in relationships. Its called "He's just not that into you". And its so true. If someone isn't calling, they aren't interested. Stop persuing it. If he were interested he would call or contact you in some way. Im sorry to seem so cold about it, but i get so upset when i see women who will put their self respect aside and wait around for a man who doesn't want them.

(in reply to Soulhuntre)

RE: Inconsistent Master - 10/28/2005 10:33:01 AM

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I have to agree with Em as well... look at how he is behaving, not at how you hope he will, and base your decisions on what is happening. While I could speculate based on what you have said that this guy doesn't consider you a real priority in his life, Soulhuntre is correct in that only you really know what is going on and its up to you to use that information to decide what you should do.

So my advice is simply this. Decide what you need in a relationship, then look at what he is offering (not what you are hoping for, what he has actually shown with his actions) and base your choice on that. If he isn't offering what you need, walk away, if he is I wish you both the best.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to abondanzaisme)

RE: Inconsistent Master - 10/28/2005 12:15:06 PM

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To all who replied to my OP, I thank you for your wisdom and advice. I was thinking the same things that you all have said, that he is not too interested, except in the sexual dynamic...we used to have much more conversation prior to the sexual relationship, so I thought that was more of the foundation of who we were. Actions do speak loder than words. And if he is not forthcoming about his true expectations or lack thereof, I am outta there. Life is too short for players who only say that they want a relationship with depth and do nothing to contribute to that.

Thanx again, y'all!

(in reply to Padriag)

RE: Inconsistent Master - 10/28/2005 1:24:43 PM

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Perhaps I'm just a contrarian, but perhaps something else is going on here. Aside from the possibility that he really is busy, it's possible that he's building the D/s dynamic. It's not all about negotiation and limits and making nice. Once in awhile, someone comes along who actually wants to dominate- and one technique for this involves some emotional manipulation. It's rather in the nature of this approach that you, the sub, won't like it, but there's a school of thought that says: You want to submit, you want to submit to him, so if he does things you don't like, but they establish the relationship dynamic you're seeking, he's just doing his job.
In every relationship there are inequalities of attachment, and these are generally sources of power in a relationship. If you value the relationship less than he, his ability to compel you is reduced. Perhaps he just wants to establish your interest sufficiently to give him the leverage he needs to be effective.

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Citizen Cane

If silence is golden, why is duct tape silver?

(in reply to abondanzaisme)

RE: Inconsistent Master - 10/28/2005 1:33:06 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CitizenCane
and one technique for this involves some emotional manipulation. It's rather in the nature of this approach that you, the sub, won't like it, but there's a school of thought that says: You want to submit, you want to submit to him, so if he does things you don't like, but they establish the relationship dynamic you're seeking, he's just doing his job.

This is AFTER the initial relationship is established. Until you've established trust and security, playing emotional games like this is just that- emotional games that erode whatever initial trust you may have had.

quote:

In every relationship there are inequalities of attachment, and these are generally sources of power in a relationship. If you value the relationship less than he, his ability to compel you is reduced. Perhaps he just wants to establish your interest sufficiently to give him the leverage he needs to be effective.

That would be a really lame excuse for me. If someone is interested in me, then they are interested. If they want to play little power games without even establishing a solid relationship first, let them do it, but not with me.

That whole idea smacks of a guy who doesn't have a real life long term relationship perspective and somehow makes it always the subs fault if things don't work out.

(in reply to CitizenCane)

RE: Inconsistent Master - 10/28/2005 1:46:06 PM

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Well, as you say, that would be a lame excuse for you. Not everyone plays this game by the same rules, and for some, working the power dynamic from the get go is the way to establish a solid relationship- the kind they want. The internet has made a lot of mating interactions rather more cerebral than they used to be, and I don't think this has necessarily improved things. Especially in D/s, the power dynamic is pretty key to a relationship- seeing how it works early on isn't completely irrational. It might not be nice, but not everyone is looking for nice.

Your last sentence 'smacks' of projection. I didn't see anything in the OP about making anything her 'fault'. As for 'real life long term relationship perspectives', he may be taking a very pragmatic approach to getting the real life relationship dynamic he wants. I imagine he experiences quite a bit of rejection along the way- but if you're looking for something specific, that's not always a bad thing.

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Citizen Cane

If silence is golden, why is duct tape silver?

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Inconsistent Master - 10/28/2005 1:51:51 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CitizenCane
Well, as you say, that would be a lame excuse for you. Not everyone plays this game by the same rules, and for some, working the power dynamic from the get go is the way to establish a solid relationship- the kind they want.

That's the problem, this isn't a game, this is a relationship. If you want to play games IN a relationship, that's fine, but doing it during the courting/initial phase is not the way to go.

quote:

The internet has made a lot of mating interactions rather more cerebral than they used to be, and I don't think this has necessarily improved things. Especially in D/s, the power dynamic is pretty key to a relationship- seeing how it works early on isn't completely irrational. It might not be nice, but not everyone is looking for nice.

That's AFTER it's been established.

quote:

Your last sentence 'smacks' of projection. I didn't see anything in the OP about making anything her 'fault'.

I don't see anything in the OP about him letting her know he's going to test or try and build her submission either.

It's fairly wild speculation on your part, which I then responded to. Personally, I think he's just lost interest and doesn't want things to go on.

There are so many ways to establish a D/s dynamic withOUT eroding trust/being rude/being non-committal/being inconsistent. Resorting to such tactics IMO shows a lack of understanding of relationship dynamics.

(in reply to CitizenCane)

RE: Inconsistent Master - 10/28/2005 2:01:40 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: CitizenCane
Well, as you say, that would be a lame excuse for you. Not everyone plays this game by the same rules, and for some, working the power dynamic from the get go is the way to establish a solid relationship- the kind they want.

That's the problem, this isn't a game, this is a relationship. If you want to play games IN a relationship, that's fine, but doing it during the courting/initial phase is not the way to go.

quote:

The internet has made a lot of mating interactions rather more cerebral than they used to be, and I don't think this has necessarily improved things. Especially in D/s, the power dynamic is pretty key to a relationship- seeing how it works early on isn't completely irrational. It might not be nice, but not everyone is looking for nice.

That's AFTER it's been established.

quote:

Your last sentence 'smacks' of projection. I didn't see anything in the OP about making anything her 'fault'.

I don't see anything in the OP about him letting her know he's going to test or try and build her submission either.

It's fairly wild speculation on your part, which I then responded to. Personally, I think he's just lost interest and doesn't want things to go on.

There are so many ways to establish a D/s dynamic withOUT eroding trust/being rude/being non-committal/being inconsistent. Resorting to such tactics IMO shows a lack of understanding of relationship dynamics.

Not sure why one set of speculations is more wild than another here, although I do think it's statistically the safe bet to assume that people are either jerks or idiots, or both. The OP, however, has some reason to believe otherwise about this particular individual, and crediting her perception is not any more wild than dismissing it. Being as how the Tao that can be described is not the real Tao, it seems to me that the dom in question might well be simply doing rather than talking. The fact of the OP indicates he's had some effect, and it's pretty much impossible to say, on the basis of the info available, whether it's one he wants or anticipated, or not. All I'm saying is it's a little early to call the election. Wait for a few more precincts to report.

_____________________________

Citizen Cane

If silence is golden, why is duct tape silver?

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Inconsistent Master - 10/28/2005 2:17:59 PM

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From: Barrie, ON Canada
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There is not enough information here. I have read the OP about a dozen times now, and there is something not right. There is information that is missing that needs to come from the Dom. Anybody that is passing judgement on Him now and assuming what He is like without hearing His side is merely talking for the sake of hearing themselves talk and unnecessarily judging people.

I know I am the same way with women when I first meet them. I hold back until I get to know them. I want to see what makes them tick first. I want to know what I am up against. I value being reserved and taking things at My pace, as I feel comfortable. I do not want to be rushed into anything, or I will just run the other way. It is this quality of "aloofness" and "mystery" along with My eccentric qualities, that draw women to Me in the first place, or so several of them have told Me.

When I have had a chance to size them up, which takes a while, then I start to feel comfortable in the relationship and open the doors. I have a sneaky suspicion that this man is doing the same thing, but without His presence here, W/we can not very well know that, can W/we?

EDIT: As an afterthought, what I am saying is this. I as a Dom want to hold the reigns. It is not for My sub to do. When I am ready to take the next step I will say so, and W/we both decide whether the timing is right to discuss the next level or wait. If the sub pushes Me I will back off, or even terminate the relationship if I feel the need to do so. I am thinking that your Dom is taking this as being an unwanted push and is backing off to rethink His strategy. If I was you I would leave Him alone and let Him come to you. If He values the relationship, as has been already said, He will come to you.

Again, it is hard to say without Him being here.

< Message edited by SirKenin -- 10/28/2005 2:46:11 PM >

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Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

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(in reply to CitizenCane)

RE: Inconsistent Master - 10/28/2005 3:11:20 PM

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I think that when discussing relationships in general, all this might be true, that He's just not into you, but the inconsistancy is confusing. For a sub who is new the lifestyle, it is so important to have consistancy, to learn from One willing to take the time and trouble to teach. That doesn't necessarily mean you 2 have to have a long term, commited relationship, but it does mean that the One You are with needs to offer the time and attention you need.
He may not want that responsibility.

Regrdless of what He wants or doesn't want, He needs to communicate that to You.

take care sweety...

~feline~

(in reply to SirKenin)

RE: Inconsistent Master - 10/28/2005 3:24:14 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CitizenCane
Not sure why one set of speculations is more wild than another here, although I do think it's statistically the safe bet to assume that people are either jerks or idiots, or both. The OP, however, has some reason to believe otherwise about this particular individual, and crediting her perception is not any more wild than dismissing it. Being as how the Tao that can be described is not the real Tao, it seems to me that the dom in question might well be simply doing rather than talking. The fact of the OP indicates he's had some effect, and it's pretty much impossible to say, on the basis of the info available, whether it's one he wants or anticipated, or not. All I'm saying is it's a little early to call the election. Wait for a few more precincts to report.

I guess I will leave it that- no matter what purpose he is doing, it's eroding confidence, it's lacking in communication and it's breaking away at security...none of those are things that make for a good relationship, and it is his fault at this point for her to be confused and insecure about it. (If we accept what she says as valid, and I haven't caught any scent of vindication or wanting absolution which would lead me to think otherwise).

As well, I agree that there is little information to go on any count...that's pretty much the problem itself.

And finally- what I said originally still stands. He is showing her who he is, and what a relationship with him will be like. She needs to decide whether this will fulfill her and make her grow.

(in reply to CitizenCane)

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