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"Wannabe", "Badly trained" or just ... - 6/12/2008 12:40:41 AM

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I know there has been, and will continue to be, lively discussion about "labels" within the forum. So, with respect, i ask that, for convenience, common labels are used just a point of general comparison without debating their validity.

So my question is: How would you describe the "sub" in the following scenario: "wannabe", "badly trained" or "just not my kind"

There has been some tension in BDSM Manor between the Master and his sub. Over a number of days he has been deliberately spiteful in his requests of the sub (as the result of her honesty with Him over another issue). One morning, in a particularly cranky mood, Master sends an insulting and hurtful sms to sub, then another sms directly after telling her not to respnd to Him. Throughout the day His emails are curt and short and sub found them quite threatening, as she knows Master has a temper. Sub expressed these feelings of hurt and distress to Master who tells her that she is not a "real 24/7 sub" . sub then expresses her opinion that she doesnt think a D/s relationhip is about a sub having to take deep insults on the chin just because Master is in a bad mood. Fear turns to anger over the course of the evening and sub thinks it best to have an early night on her own and calm down.

Disclaimer: All characters depicted in this story are fictitious and any likeness to any one, living or dead, is purely coincidence

Thanx in advance

Darke

Two things are infinite : the universe and human stupidity; I’m not sure about the universe.

RE: "Wannabe", "Badly trained" or j... - 6/12/2008 2:20:46 AM

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Wow... I don't think I could describe the "sub" in any real way. There's virtually no information regarding her. On the other hand, your scenario tells me volumes about the "master."

juliet

(in reply to darkeangelique)

RE: "Wannabe", "Badly trained" or j... - 6/12/2008 2:37:21 AM

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When everthing is the sub's fault, the dom is out of control - not exactly how a control based dynamic is meant to function....

Since there's no information explaining the dom's moods, I'm left thinking it's everything from his immaturity to a serious need for some anger management intervention. Whatever, she shouldn't be spending her nights in the same house with him.... Maybe not her days, either!

Focus.

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RE: "Wannabe", "Badly trained" or j... - 6/12/2008 3:05:55 AM

adorableisotope

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Yeah, even with my super human intuition skills, I'd need to know a little more background about the unfolding soap opera!

But from what you've written, it sounds like the sub is the one in the clear here.

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RE: "Wannabe", "Badly trained" or j... - 6/12/2008 4:17:30 AM

Wantstocontrolu

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sounds like another "on-line" relationship that is not real on one side or the other, when trust is lost due to a indescression it is LOST, gone. time to move on.. On the other hand the "master" may just be another wannabe.

A coller of anykind does go both ways

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RE: "Wannabe", "Badly trained" or j... - 6/12/2008 4:40:29 AM

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I would love to provide more information from the opera, but feel that it would be too intimate for our little sub and could cause her great grief in future chapters.

From this chapter though, would you say she was not being a "sub" by recognising she was angry and deciding to be alone? Was she out of order (showing herself up as a wannabe) by questioning His idea of 24/7 (ie. do as you are told no matter what)? Would you say her questioning is due to poor training, poor judgement or her own (really) dominant personality?

Can a real D/s relationship exist and survive if it is based on fear?

Darke

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RE: "Wannabe", "Badly trained" or j... - 6/12/2008 4:44:04 AM

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For the sake of the scenario, lets assume this was a real life relationship, one that had lasted say 4 years to this point?

Darke

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RE: "Wannabe", "Badly trained" or j... - 6/12/2008 4:51:42 AM

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Going on the assumption that in the past he told her to respond to him with her honest emotions, I'd call her a human being in touch with herself and him an insecure ass. Now if he told her he didn't give a damn about her, that it was all about him, and to hell with her being happy, then I'd call her stupid for getting into that situation in the beginning.

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RE: "Wannabe", "Badly trained" or j... - 6/12/2008 5:08:32 AM

sambamanslilgirl

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the "master" is an egotistical jerk who cannot master himself and his bad moods. the "sub" lacks self-esteem for being in this abusive relationship.

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RE: "Wannabe", "Badly trained" or j... - 6/12/2008 5:44:02 AM

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I feel the one sided fault scenario depicted is false and designed to suport an opinon already held and looking only to be supported. Writtrs bias is so plainly obvious.

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RE: "Wannabe", "Badly trained" or j... - 6/12/2008 6:07:32 AM

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Subs are described on personality and structure, not on a paragraph. Useless exercise, in my view.

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RE: "Wannabe", "Badly trained" or j... - 6/12/2008 6:18:41 AM

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There seems to be a mistaken impression that the sub is "bad" for thinking or feeling. Subs, and slaves, still get their feelings hurt. They always have the right to wonder about their relationship and whether or not it is fulfilling to them. It is what they choose to do with those emotions and thoughts that makes the difference.

For instance, some people are very needy and constantly want to be reassured, and when the top really needs some space to just chill a bit the bottom can't seem to leave them alone. (I have been guilty of this in past relationships; the more distance I feel from the person needing space the more I want to try to please them and receive positive attention. I had to learn when it was best to just leave them be, let them give themselves an attitude adjustment, and just be patient.)

I think that for subs/slaves there is generally SOME amount of fear - mainly fear in being displeasing. Sometimes that fear drives one to stretch their boundaries, to try things that they might never have otherwise because there is a little fear of either being displeasing, not exciting enough, or perhaps even that they will lose the interest of the top.

Labels are used differently in various relationships. My Master considers me to be a 24/7 slave even though we don't live together because He wants me to have Him on my mind 24/7. We are comfortable using that label within our relationship, but wouldn't apply it in the same way to anyone else's. If someone in a live in relationship is suddenly being told that they aren't really 24/7 it could be that the Dom is frustrated, but the sub should also check themselves to see if they are really showing submission at all times or just when it is convenient. Maybe they are great during session times but then immediately take back control of the remote, or demand to be taken to dinner. There are so few facts to go on. In your scenario it is obvious that the sub feels hurt - and has every right to - but shows absolutely nothing about whether they relate in a healthy way to their Dom.

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RE: "Wannabe", "Badly trained" or j... - 6/12/2008 6:36:46 AM

Quin

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I don't think any of those labels fit. Instead I would call her "human". I think everyone here can agree that communication is essential to any relationship and, from the scenario you've given, the Master is both retaliating for communication he didn't like and preventing further communication by telling her not to respond. Given similar situations, I've told my slave "I'm angry about what you've told me, but I don't want to hold it against you. Give me some time to cool down and then we'll talk".

(in reply to darkeangelique)

RE: "Wannabe", "Badly trained" or j... - 6/12/2008 6:37:11 AM

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quote:

So my question is: How would you describe the "sub" in the following scenario: "wannabe", "badly trained" or "just not my kind"

None of the above. Ignoring a man when he is on the rag doesn't reflect badly on the sub's submissiviness. He can learn to control his temper and then she won't be off avoiding him.

(in reply to darkeangelique)

RE: "Wannabe", "Badly trained" or j... - 6/12/2008 6:41:21 AM

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Hey, guys, note - all communbication is online. This is an online relationship.

The first red flag was the "honesty" issue - the sub lied to her Master.

Second red flag is that the Master did not have a single session and then reconcile. Or, alternatively, walk away. Note that a punishment session could not be done RL!

Third red flag is that the sub then posted this "hypothetical" situation here.

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RE: "Wannabe", "Badly trained" or j... - 6/12/2008 7:05:25 AM

edana

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quote:

Over a number of days he has been deliberately spiteful in his requests of the sub (as the result of her honesty with Him over another issue).

That's rather telling. If your "dom" is making "requests" of you I'd guess that whatever power dynamic exists between you is negligable. The rest reads like a regular old couple having a spat, which would make sense if you're both just in it for mutually "requested" play. So, seems to me you should just approach it as any couple would who are having a fight. Here's to hoping for good "makeup sex".

< Message edited by edana -- 6/12/2008 7:06:38 AM >

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RE: "Wannabe", "Badly trained" or j... - 6/12/2008 7:25:22 AM

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The most likely thing is that he's tired of the fun and games and doesn't know how to be strong enough to be honest about it, and/or that he's found someone else and hopes he can just shake you off and make it your fault that it ends, and/or that you've just been too clingy and not listening and he's resorting to curtness to get his points across.

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RE: "Wannabe", "Badly trained" or j... - 6/12/2008 7:40:19 AM

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4 years. Sounds like someone is tired of their sub and wants her to move on. A moronic way of going about it.

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RE: "Wannabe", "Badly trained" or j... - 6/12/2008 7:49:47 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: darkeangelique

From this chapter though, would you say she was not being a "sub" by recognising she was angry and deciding to be alone? Was she out of order (showing herself up as a wannabe) by questioning His idea of 24/7 (ie. do as you are told no matter what)? Would you say her questioning is due to poor training, poor judgement or her own (really) dominant personality?

Can a real D/s relationship exist and survive if it is based on fear?

Darke

I wouldn't say the submissive is any of those things. A "good" submissive doesn't "do as told no matter what". A "good" submissive questions a Dominant when the Dom's behavior may be damaging or can do harm to the submissive or the relationship. In this case the Dom is doing damage by not being able to communicate and control himself.

Our feelings are our feelings, we can't be told not feel them and we shouldn't be told that our feelings are invalid. The Doms reaction to be angry about a submissive telling him her feelings is doing a poor job of being in a relationship. The proper thing is to sit down and talk it out.

So, from the brief sketch of the story, I would say that they both have an issue with communication and the Dom is at fault for continuing to throw a temper tantrum. The sub did the adult thing by removing her self from the situation to regroup.

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RE: "Wannabe", "Badly trained" or j... - 6/12/2008 10:09:42 AM

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I hate sub victim threads.

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