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RE: Business women dressing a little dominatrix chic... - 6/14/2008 2:54:43 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cantilena

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn
the men around me tend to start saying things like "Who's the slut over there?"

"Uh...Well.... Joe... see... that's the head of our division."

IME, guys who say such things about a professionally dressed, but smartly chic woman (and yeah, they're everywhere) tend to be... well... junior. Junior and just maybe a tad frustrated about that too.

I wish that was actually the case, but I've seen this in professional circles. The sad thing is: I get the impression that women generally aren't privy to these types of conversations, so they're convinced they must not happen. Surprisingly, on the college level at conferences, I've actually seen a lot more subdued behavior from the men than I would have expected; I think that has a lot more to do with not knowing who one might piss off, as not everyone knows who everyone else is.

Anyway, but judging from Akasha's response, she thinks this is manufactured, so I'll bow out here. I was just trying to help as I saw most of the responses were from those who wouldn't actually be privy to such conversations. I really should take my own advice sometimes and just not contribute to some peoples' threads. Live and learn.

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RE: Business women dressing a little dominatrix chic... - 6/14/2008 3:41:44 PM

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I'll add my 2 cents... First, I will say that a very well dressed woman with just a hint of sexy will get positive attention. As you figured, add too much sexy and you better back it up by being one hard driven competent bitch. That works, too, most of the time, if you have been in the job long enough to have cred.

But I should add that my male colleagues and I tend to differentiate between marketers and other professionals. When a marketing team strolls in for a pitch, I often notice at least one smart, good looking, well dressed woman. If the clothes are at all "out there", I immediately assume she did it purposefully to play me. And it works to a degree: she gets my attention. But not necessarily my respect or support. Or contract. But it has become almost a uniform, so we all expect it.

Other professional women can get a lot of mileage with that oh my god conservative sexy look as long as it doesn't go overboard. In most cases, it shows confidence and that in turn implies competence. I work with a diminutive, 55 year old powerhouse of a woman with a kickass body and an intensely sharp mind. She wears sleek, tailored, conservative suits that somehow make you immediately realize she has a female body under there, and has these amazing shoes made by some dude named jimmy chow or whatever (feeble oblivious guy joke there). But I think she would be taken seriously if she came to work wearing nothing but the shoes. Or gunny sacks...

Bottom line: go for it - to a point. Depending on who you are, it's good for your confidence, which is good for your image, which is good for the perception of your results. Some guys will think impure thoughts, sure, and some (men and women) will think you did it to distract, but most will just react positively. It's wired into our brains.

Damn, I just made a long blah blah blah post. Aw, what the hell... I'll post anyway.

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RE: Business women dressing a little dominatrix chic... - 6/14/2008 3:59:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn
The sad thing is: I get the impression that women generally aren't privy to these types of conversations, so they're convinced they must not happen.

Granted, I've never seen Santa or the Tooth Fairy. However, this fact doesn't mean they exist any more than very senior male executives exist who make sexual innuendoes in a buisness setting about professionally dressed female colleagues who happen to be wearing this spring's Prada boots.

Yes, I'm sure men exist that would make such remarks about their female counterparts. However, such behavior is just not seen at a senior level, and if it is, it's by the same dickhead who everybody hates in the company for a whole host of loathsome personality traits. Generally speaking, if there are questions about a colleague's impact in any way, it isn't expressed with back slapping, rib-digging, har dee har har, Aren't We Just Grand, and Isn't She Just A Slut!... it is expressed through a mysterious lack of future invitations to meetings and assignment to Department Boondocks Never To Be Seen Again By Clients.

Thank the Good Lord.

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn
Surprisingly, on the college level at conferences, I've actually seen a lot more subdued behavior from the men than I would have expected; I think that has a lot more to do with not knowing who one might piss off, as not everyone knows who everyone else is.

How is that surprising? Men acting both their age and in a professional manner is surprising? I don't find it surprising in the least, and I suspect it had nothing to do with "Not knowing who they might piss off". I rather suspect it had to do with a general unwillingness to make idiotic remarks.

{{edited: deleted last paragraph.}}

< Message edited by cantilena -- 6/14/2008 4:30:11 PM >

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RE: Business women dressing a little dominatrix chic... - 6/14/2008 4:31:14 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

I'm getting older (sigh) and my clients are getting more conservative as I find myself in a few niches lately. I'm consulting with a group of extremely conservative, male dominated groups (think extremely conservative corporate attorneys or high end academics) and surrounded by such conservative styles of dress that my head boggles. The couple of women I have encountered, all older, dress even more conservatively than their male partners. I have a pretty nice conservative corporate wardrobe, but to be honest, my style is a little more edgy than that - never unappropriate, never nasty, never too sexualized. But I like sexy, cute shoes now and then, or boots, and may enjoy wearing a little more makeup or styling my hair in a more fashionable way.

I have to think the men in these uber-conservative worlds are not blind to "kink chic" and can appreciate it, so long as it's not unprofessional. However, I don't like to bring a wrong impression into a board room. I guess my question is this - for men who work in VERY conservative industries, you KNOW when you see a woman in a conservative business suit with a little "something" extra (ie, black patent leather boots - NICE ones, not trampy go-go boots) and you "get it." But do your business peers say things like, "that's a little over the top," or do you sense the lady is losing some credibility if they don't know her?

For ladies -- do you ever bring your own personality and flair to extremely conservative business situations in a non-risky way, or do you stick to super safe?

Akasha

Hi Akasha. Good Op.

i had the same problem you now have (although i had not found D/s) and here are some do's and don't's i used to help address it:

1. Never wear a blouse or dress that in any way reveals yr boobage. If you can, get bras that prevent yr nips from being seen when erect.

2. Buy the best quality clothing you can afford. That is not necessarially the most expensive -- you have to look carefully to see whether the garmet is well made. Personally, i had come to rely on the Liz Clayborn brand, and i bought only from the sales rack. (But then, i was in Florida and did not need different clothing for the 4 seasons.)

3. i prefered stockings and garters to panty hose. No one but me knew i was wearing stockings, and it made me feel more feminine. In any event, buy high quality hose and discard them when they begin showing 'picks'. Don't wait until you get a run. (This was a chronic expense, but there wasn't much i felt i could do about it.)

4. Buy high quality shoes and maintain them. Use shoe polish and get the soles replaced as needed. Personally, i can't imagine boots of any kind would be acceptable...but you'll have to decide that for yrself.

5. Buy high quality handbags and accessories, such as a portfolio or attache case, if you carry one. Again, maintain them and replace then when wear begins to show.

6. Consider wearing dresses rather than suits. i felt appropriately -- but much more feminely -- dressed in a dress rather than a suit. Some occassions do call for a suit though; court appearances, appearances before the board, etc. When necessary, suck it up and wear a good suit.

7. You may be able to select jewelry that would signal 'kink' to a Man 'in the know'. Perhaps an ankle bracelet wth a small lock, for example. Only you can guage this.

8. i found that my style of dress could never help me -- but it could hurt me. Professional Men such as lawyers, bankers, CEO's, etc., seem to 'react badly' to yr manner of dress only when it's to yr detriment....they never react 'well' if yr very pulled together. Appropriate dressing for a woman in a professional setting is like camoflague, helping you 'blend in'.

Sorry i am not more enouraging. i recomend you think carefully before wearing anything 'provacative' in a setting like this. It doesn't take much to damage yr credibility and possibly yr career in such milieus.

Best wishes,

pinksugarsub

< Message edited by pinksugarsub -- 6/14/2008 4:37:53 PM >

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RE: Business women dressing a little dominatrix chic... - 6/15/2008 6:06:01 AM

mistressverahal

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yeah

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Business women dressing a little dominatrix chic... - 6/15/2008 6:56:31 AM

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Joined: 10/22/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cantilena

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn
the men around me tend to start saying things like "Who's the slut over there?"

"Uh...Well.... Joe... see... that's the head of our division."

IME, guys who say such things about a professionally dressed, but smartly chic woman (and yeah, they're everywhere) tend to be... well... junior. Junior and just maybe a tad frustrated about that too.

If by junior, you mean junior high....I would have to agree.

(in reply to cantilena)

RE: Business women dressing a little dominatrix chic... - 6/15/2008 7:02:36 AM

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Joined: 10/22/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

quote:

ORIGINAL: cantilena

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn
the men around me tend to start saying things like "Who's the slut over there?"

"Uh...Well.... Joe... see... that's the head of our division."

IME, guys who say such things about a professionally dressed, but smartly chic woman (and yeah, they're everywhere) tend to be... well... junior. Junior and just maybe a tad frustrated about that too.

I wish that was actually the case, but I've seen this in professional circles. The sad thing is: I get the impression that women generally aren't privy to these types of conversations, so they're convinced they must not happen.

Do you honestly believe women don't talk crap behind men's backs? They can be just as immature as the guy you mentioned.

Surprisingly, on the college level at conferences, I've actually seen a lot more subdued behavior from the men than I would have expected; I think that has a lot more to do with not knowing who one might piss off, as not everyone knows who everyone else is.

Anyway, but judging from Akasha's response, she thinks this is manufactured, so I'll bow out here. I was just trying to help as I saw most of the responses were from those who wouldn't actually be privy to such conversations. I really should take my own advice sometimes and just not contribute to some peoples' threads. Live and learn.

I don't think she was implying it was manufactured. Just that the guy in question was being juvenile.

(in reply to littlesarbonn)

RE: Business women dressing a little dominatrix chic... - 6/15/2008 9:46:46 AM

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I think it depends on the business. The key term is always dress to impress. So how you dress is how you are judged. But it is true. Looks are important. Most companies will tell you. Keep your private life at home if there japanesse companies you bet you tow the line fore sure some areas you should not push the limits could end up in law suits for offending someone

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Business women dressing a little dominatrix chic... - 6/15/2008 10:59:50 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chicagoswitch

I am a female executive in one of the industries you mentioned. I like to add a little "edge" every now and then. There is nothing like showing up for court in a conservative suit and 4 1/2 inch patent leather stilettos.....yum. If you show it through accessories and not skin (low cut or short skirt) and have the brains and confidence to pull it off, you will be fine.

Maybe it's partially regional. i practiced in the deep South, and i would never have worn stillettos to court. i think it might have cost me my job if i had.

pinksugarsub

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RE: Business women dressing a little dominatrix chic... - 6/15/2008 11:07:24 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: underworld026

Yea, I don't think men would be as harsh about it, as women would be.

My experience is that both sexes can be equally quilty, but react differently.

Women tend to gossip about you behind yr back and pull other passsive-aggressive shit.

Men may proposition you but They damned sure don't hear you or trust yr professional abilities.

And no, i'm not trying to make sweeping generalisations here. Just giving the Op the benefit of my own experience, which is all i can do.

pinksugarsub

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RE: Business women dressing a little dominatrix chic... - 6/15/2008 1:50:04 PM

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I work in the IT department of a automotive manufacturing company in the UK, we have a shop floor of mostly guys who are employed to press, weld and paint big chunks of metal, they are not (generally speaking) the most enlightened, PC people. Many of our management employees worked their way up through the ranks, making them not the most enlightened PC group of (all but one) men ever.

As a result the concept of "has breasts therefore has no brain" is something I encounter almost daily. I don't sexualise my workwear. It would be unprofessional and in my company unproductive. If I want people to take what I'm saying seriously (and often I'm asking for investments of millions of euros and years of time to achieve the projects I'm working on) then I need to be serious. I'm sexual out of the office and quite often change on my way out of the door. I'm comfortable with that, and it works for me in my environment, however - as is often said here - other people's mileage may vary.

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RE: Business women dressing a little dominatrix chic... - 6/15/2008 3:45:15 PM

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I think you said it very well. That is why i do not understand why people have to push to change something to fit into their world. the world will never do that
at least no one that makes a billion

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RE: Business women dressing a little dominatrix chic... - 6/15/2008 3:56:12 PM

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Hello AAkasha,

I stick to conservative in business situations. If I want to feel a bit sexy, then silky under wear is something felt but not seen. You probably have more leeway with the foot wear, purses and other accessories.

Regards,

Vendaval

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RE: Business women dressing a little dominatrix chic... - 6/15/2008 4:31:22 PM

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I worked for DOD as an auditor and this required me to interact with heads of corporations that wanted the government contracts. And yes, negative comments were made about females who were not dressed conservatively enough. It is like I got away with wearing sport coats instead of suits. Of course my sport coats cost more than the CEO's suits did so that played into it also. It also upset my superiors because I could be wearing clothes that cost more than they made in a month. At the same time females who wore clothes that were not off the rack were also acknowledged as having been able to make a success out of themselves or coming from a wealthy family. Which one was determined when they tried to carry on a conversation. Clothing can always make you look like you belong or if it is the wrong clothing, it can hurt you and your standing with the company unless you are the CEO.

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RE: Business women dressing a little dominatrix chic... - 6/15/2008 4:55:18 PM

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I cannot imagine any conservative work environment in which patent leather boots or stilettos would be seen as appropriate.

Cali

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RE: Business women dressing a little dominatrix chic... - 6/15/2008 6:46:46 PM

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From: Phx AZ
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maybe thats why i luved the devil wears prada .. One of the very few flicks i have seen and like where nothing blew up . lol

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

I cannot imagine any conservative work environment in which patent leather boots or stilettos would be seen as appropriate.

Cali

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RE: Business women dressing a little dominatrix chic... - 6/15/2008 8:03:59 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

I'm getting older (sigh) and my clients are getting more conservative as I find myself in a few niches lately. I'm consulting with a group of extremely conservative, male dominated groups (think extremely conservative corporate attorneys or high end academics) and surrounded by such conservative styles of dress that my head boggles. The couple of women I have encountered, all older, dress even more conservatively than their male partners. I have a pretty nice conservative corporate wardrobe, but to be honest, my style is a little more edgy than that - never unappropriate, never nasty, never too sexualized. But I like sexy, cute shoes now and then, or boots, and may enjoy wearing a little more makeup or styling my hair in a more fashionable way.

I have to think the men in these uber-conservative worlds are not blind to "kink chic" and can appreciate it, so long as it's not unprofessional. However, I don't like to bring a wrong impression into a board room. I guess my question is this - for men who work in VERY conservative industries, you KNOW when you see a woman in a conservative business suit with a little "something" extra (ie, black patent leather boots - NICE ones, not trampy go-go boots) and you "get it." But do your business peers say things like, "that's a little over the top," or do you sense the lady is losing some credibility if they don't know her?

For ladies -- do you ever bring your own personality and flair to extremely conservative business situations in a non-risky way, or do you stick to super safe?

Akasha

I think you are smart enough to know what is appropriate and what isn't. Living in california does allow you to be a bit more edgy.

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RE: Business women dressing a little dominatrix chic... - 6/15/2008 11:25:55 PM

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Akasha,

A lot of us would appreciate it. However, I know for a fact that some would not. Some guys are just that way, very prudish. In their minds, it would definitely affect their evaluation of you. It's very difficult to break it down in percentages.

need

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RE: Business women dressing a little dominatrix chic... - 6/16/2008 4:33:45 AM

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AAkasha, you said you are consulting which means this will not be your permanent workspace. If they are extremely conservative you should have a at least couple dresses fitting in these kind of situations. It is actually not about how conservative they are but more what is your role there. For example you may notice an advertising agency creative team may dress up less conservative even while they are pitching a conservative clint. Because they are not only selling their ideas, also themselves as creative people. Client wants to see them different. On the other hand if you are consulting people you dont want them to think about your dress but the information you are giving them. If they start disliking the way you dress , it will distract them and they wont be able to focus on your thoughts one hundred percent. So without knowing the true nature of your job, I believe if you are in a position that requires those people to follow your lead as a consultant , you should not bring anything that can distract them to the board room except your great knowledge and brain. Purpose of conservative dresses is creating a neutral impression. If you dress up a little bit dominatrix , while couple of people there enjoys it some other may not. And as a counsaltent last thing you want , I believe, is creating a mixed impression in your clients eyes. After considering these things, only you can decide what is best to wear in that board room.

Good Luck
Hermes

< Message edited by MasterHermes -- 6/16/2008 4:39:48 AM >

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RE: Business women dressing a little dominatrix chic... - 6/16/2008 5:38:50 AM

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I'm not sure if this anwers your question but, I believe you can't judge a book by it's cover and I happen to think that most conservatively dressed, business suit wearing formally dressed woman is as kinky as they come when her doors are closed. But then, that could just be wishful thinking cos I've got a thing for women in business suit ;).

(in reply to AAkasha)

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