RE: "Gift" of submission?

RE: "Gift" of submission? (Full Version)

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Quin -> RE: "Gift" of submission? (6/19/2008 8:44:57 AM)
I've continued to read these and must admit that, while I still don't agree with it, I can now understand, better, the mentalities of those who choose to use it. Learning is a good thing...please keep the input coming.

LotusSong -> RE: "Gift" of submission? (6/19/2008 9:21:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Quin This is a statement that has always bugged me. I see it all the time, online, and it drives me up the wall. Being submissive is no more a gift that being passive, aggressive, or optomistic. It's a personality trait. It's who you are. Being dominant is not a gift...it's who I am. I can't choose not to be dominant, any more than homosexuals can choose to be straight. How is, for example, giving over everything you are to the control of another in a TPE a gift? A gift is something you give with no expectation of anything, other than a "thank you" in return. When you submit to someone else, don't you expect something in return? Don't you expect him to spank/flog/singletail you in return and get some kind of pleasure out of it? Don't you expect him to care for you in some way? Does this comment bug anyone else? What are your thoughts on this phrase? I don't let it bug me.. I am just sure to keep the receipt.

softness -> RE: "Gift" of submission? (6/19/2008 11:52:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stella41b How about submission is a choice? sure it is ... for me its a choice the choice between happiness and unhappiness the choice between understanding and misunderstanding the choice between satisfaction and dissatisfaction I simply wont be happy in a relationship where the man I love doesn't over step the mark and prove beyond doubt that I am a subject of His power. I wont be happy until I have someone who will gleefully throw me to the floor, pin me down with a boot to the belly and spit on my face. I need that. Sure I can choose not to have it, but why on earth would I choose to be unhappy? If someone needed driving to and from work but couldn't drive themselves, you know that, they knew that .. it was obvious to everyone that the person was in need of a car driver. How would you feel if they gave you a car? would you think it was a generous gift? ... or would you consider it a bit of a gift from a Greek?

CuriousPuppy -> RE: "Gift" of submission? (6/20/2008 3:57:22 PM)
It's a pretty simple concept really. Submission is a gift... Submission is earned... Just because someone is submissive, doesn't mean they are submissive to you... Dominant/Master/Mistress/etc is more than just making a claim to the title/checking a box... so on and so forth, it all falls under the same umbrella. Too many people get into D/s thinking that calling themselves master soandso is all it takes in order to get submissives to fawn all over them and jump at their every word; the fact that they are often obnoxious rude sleezeballs doesn't factor into their mind when a so called 'bad sub' puts them in their place. They fall under a gentle and polite socially acceptable version of "take your hand off my ass before I take it off for you".

Quin -> RE: "Gift" of submission? (6/21/2008 10:25:41 AM)
I understand your point, and maybe this is what leads to my own personal problem with the statement...no, you don't have to submit to every Tom, Dick, or Harry that calls himself a Master. My problem is when girls, who call themselves submissives or slaves, use this statement as an excuse to be rude to anyone they want. More than once, I have seen girls attack someone, for no good reason, and then say "well, I don't have to be polite, I haven't given my gift to him".

ResidentSadist -> RE: "Gift" of submission? (6/22/2008 6:16:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Quin Does this comment bug anyone else? What are your thoughts on this phrase? LMAO… if see someone say that stupid shit, I know they are an emotional basket case with control issues and I avoid them at all costs. You don’t see people saying “love is a gift”. Submission is no fucking gift anymore than love is. They are both required parts of a healthy power exchange relationship! Anyone that holds their submission more preciously than their love has control issues and will be a fucking nightmare in a power exchange relationship. When I see people say that stupid shit I run far, far away!

pinkieplum -> RE: "Gift" of submission? (6/23/2008 1:46:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Leatherist I hard limit it-since it tends to come attached to "the gift of whining." I hate package deals. Laffs. No whining? None at all? pinkieplum

MasterDragon1963 -> RE: "Gift" of submission? (6/26/2008 5:16:25 AM)
Unless something is "taken", then it is "given", and if it is given, then it is either a loan or a gift, while a one-time thing might be a "loan", a lifetime of devotion is not. As a Master it is who and what I am. If at a social function, a sub offers a drink, or lights a cigarette, that is perhaps meerly respectful interaction. But for my slave to kneel at my feet and to willingly place her life in my hands, that to me is a gift. Master Dragon

Silkendream -> RE: "Gift" of submission? (6/26/2008 8:29:29 PM)
I didnt want to give Him the gift of my submission, so He just took it [:D]

LadyPact -> RE: "Gift" of submission? (6/27/2008 3:55:07 AM)
(Using fast reply) Listen. There are great debates here on these boards and elsewhere about the 'submission is a gift' thing. There will never be a right or wrong answer. It depends entirely on the individual. It is open completely to perspective. I know, without reservation, that in this last dynamic that I shared, My sub did fully 'give' himself to Me. Yes, it was a gift, insomuch as I 'gave' a part of Myself to him. W/we each take a part of that with us. The same question might be asked of those of us who are not kinky. Is love a gift? Is that place from the heart, the inner being, the sharing of one's self with another a 'present' in some way? I can not tell you. This is up to you to decide.

SocialPerversion -> RE: "Gift" of submission? (6/29/2008 12:08:31 AM)
I am about %75 sure that you are just trolling but I will play along and assume that perhaps the question just did not come out as you intended it to. You are using your understanding of the world based on your own experiences; to attempt to define something that has been said by other people who have a completely different view of the world and completely different experiences. This is simply a case of interpretation and your interpretations of the issue differ from others interpretations… welcome to being a human ;) Personally, the fact that something you don’t understand “drives you up a wall” says a lot about your personality. Instead of accepting that other people don’t see things the way that you do, you choose to take the stance that they don’t understand what they are talking about. It might help to classify conversations that make you feel this way as one of the following: In this conversation this person does not understand their own lives and relationships. OR In this conversation I do not understand their lives and relationship. Once you do that you may find it easier to ask the simple question of, “What makes you see things in that way?” In this case a simple question of “What makes you see submission as a gift?” might help you to understand it better from the view of other people. As your question stands now it sounds more like an attempt to form a club of other people who don’t understand it and who are “driven up the wall” by the idea, such as yourself. Personally I am more concerned that others life and relationship choices drive you up the wall. Perhaps a hobby would assist with this issue? Then again, I may just be misunderstanding your view on the matter :P ~~conquer4love~~

Leatherist -> RE: "Gift" of submission? (6/29/2008 12:21:58 AM)
I tend to agree with the "emotional basket case" theory. Puff, puff, pufff!!!!!!! How much bigger does a sub get if she shouts it fifty times? [:D] Sort of like a blowfish?

Leatherist -> RE: "Gift" of submission? (6/29/2008 12:28:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pinkieplum quote: ORIGINAL: Leatherist I hard limit it-since it tends to come attached to "the gift of whining." I hate package deals. Laffs. No whining? None at all? pinkieplum Nein!!!! No vhinink!!!!!! VE haff vays uff makink you shtop!!!!!! [:D]

SocialPerversion -> RE: "Gift" of submission? (6/29/2008 1:06:15 AM)
Another point of consideration is that the very word “gift” is defined by personal experience, often when we are young children. My experience with gifts when I was a young child defined my idea of the very word. Personal experiences in this way can flavor how a person responds to the word. This is another instance of interpretation; others can interpret the word “gift” in a manor different to how you interpret the word. ~~conquer4love~~

Leatherist -> RE: "Gift" of submission? (6/29/2008 1:26:48 AM)
Perhaps you also heard the phrase "indian giver" as a child? Know what it means?

SocialPerversion -> RE: "Gift" of submission? (6/29/2008 1:37:28 AM)
Sorry, that last post should have been in reply to Quin not you, I pressed the wrong reply button. As for the subject, yes I am aware what "Indian giver" means and was made aware of it at an early age. Growing up in a splintered family with several older step brothers "gifts" always had hidden motives attached to them. I can understand both the “it’s a gift” and the “it’s not a gift” sides of the argument, and I think primarily it comes down to personal interpretation of both the relationship and the term used, something that I don’t think either side will ever be able to truly accept. ~~conquer4love~~

RavenMuse -> RE: "Gift" of submission? (6/29/2008 2:52:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Quin Does this comment bug anyone else? What are your thoughts on this phrase? The 'gift' annalogy is total bullshit... what happens to most gifts You recieve. "Oh thats nice" then thrown to the back of the cupboard for months till You have a clear out and it gets given to a charity shop... somehow I doubt they would want their submission treated like a 'gift' A gift doesn't require anything on the part of the reciever except that they accept the gift. There are no responcibilitys involved, no obligations, nothing... else it isn't a gift! The statement itself I find as incorrect and a sign that someone doesn't 'get it'... does it bug Me to see it on profiles? No, not at all because it is a clear sign that they haven't the IQ I am looking for and I simply move on.

NorthernGent -> RE: "Gift" of submission? (6/29/2008 3:29:51 AM)
Perhaps the idea is to convey the value of submission. And, there are strings attached to a gift........'no such thing as something for nothing in this life.

WyldHrt -> RE: "Gift" of submission? (6/29/2008 4:20:14 AM)
Great posting, RavenMuse! IMO- submission isn't given , it is exchanged for dominance (and the responsibilities that go with it). One could just as easily start some BS about "the gift of dominance", as Doms take much on their shoulders when they get into a relationship with a sub. Relationship being the operative word. RS- Love is certainly a gift, but one which is exchanged rather than given. [;)]

RavenMuse -> RE: "Gift" of submission? (6/29/2008 4:35:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WyldHrt Great posting, RavenMuse! IMO- submission isn't given , it is exchanged for dominance (and the responsibilities that go with it). One could just as easily start some BS about "the gift of dominance", as Doms take much on their shoulders when they get into a relationship with a sub. Relationship being the operative word. RS- Love is certainly a gift, but one which is exchanged rather than given. [;)] Thanks. I know all to well the responcibilitys I take on when accepting the submission of a sub, let alone that of a slave... something I consider BEFORE doing so. It is an EXCHANGE, both have things they bring to the relationship. I find usualy those who consider their submission as a gift... what they actualy offer is superficial whilst they think the Dom/me is about to jump through hoops to get it... LOL... good luck with that, whatever they get, it ain't going to be Dominant! Which probably works, because IMO they aren't exactly submissive. I do disagree that 'love' is a gift... You ever been on the recieving end when You haven't had reciprical feelings? Again, it is an exchange!

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