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Seawater - 6/19/2008 7:04:32 PM   
Termyn8or


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I almost put this in off topic, but I think I might get better responses here. I guess it is a health issue in a way, it just doesn't concern any current activity.

Now I have been using seasalt exlusively as possible for the last few years. If I make anything that resembles a soup or stew, or anything I cook in water, which BTW that list has shrunk. Fry those veggies in olive oil and butter !

But that is not the point. If I pour seasalt into pure water would I not wind up pretty much with seawater ? I know there are chemicals they use for tanks to hold aquatic life that requires salt water. It is probably more than just table salt to say the least.

If I make something like stroganoff or paprikash, I use seasalt, therefore I am making a probably diluted version of seawater. I don't use that much salt, but in the case of the paprikash the liquid is reduced considerably.

Now the crux of my mystery. It is said that you can't drink seawater, that it drives one mad. Why would this be ?

Is this just a rumor, an old Husband's tale ? Or is there truth to it, and if so why ?

Is it simply the physiological reaction to salt, when one is thirsty, and it makes them more thirsty ? In the desert, sometimes people use salt tablets, but water is necessary also. So if you are thirsty it would stand to reason that the seawater would hydrate your body and give you salt which should help your body retain the water no ?

Do you still go mad if you drink it after it has been boiled ? Do the plankton drive you nuts ?

What's more the skin is the largest organ in the human body. It is well known for excreting of course, but it is quite proficient at absorbing as well. What happens when you swim in the ocean ? You know what happens when land is flooded by saltwater, it becomes more arable. But really alot of people who know things would agree, if you can't drink it, you probably shouldn't put it on your skin.

That natural saltwater has just about every mineral you need. People do not go crazy from swimming in saltwater, but you do if you drink it ?

Why can't you drink seawater ? Could you for example use it in cooking ?

Perhaps someone can clear this up, perhaps not.

T
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RE: Seawater - 6/19/2008 7:26:13 PM   
Lynnxz


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Salt water is different from sea water, much more stuff floating around in sea water than just normal salt water.... altho I wouldn't try to live on salt water either.

Sea water is also much higher in salt than your blood, making it hard for your body to metabolize. To try and compensate, water rushes out of your blood cells to try and flush the salt out, dehydrating and collapsing them. It leads to dehydration, seizures, and kidney failure. You are literally pickling your body from the inside.

Now, as far as cooking with it? I don't see a problem with it, unless there are little nasties floating around in there or something. I'd think it would get diluted enough with water from the rest of your diet.



< Message edited by Lynnxz -- 6/19/2008 7:38:54 PM >


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RE: Seawater - 6/19/2008 7:33:17 PM   
abcbsex


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I've heard that sea salt is a healthier alternative to table-salt because it is less iodized. I heard this from a body modification community about why it's better for piercings than regular salt. I don't think usng sea salt means you're using "diluted seawater", it's just substituting the salt you'd already use for something healthier. The reason you go mad or why it would be harmful is that your body can't be hydrated properly if the only thing you're drinking is saltwater, but using it in soups and stuff, that's just regular seasoning.

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RE: Seawater - 6/19/2008 8:09:33 PM   
Vendaval


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Termyn8or,
 
You can have your water tested a laboratory.  I use sea salt or kosher salt for cooking.
 
Composition of sea water below in link -

http://www.usask.ca/geology/classes/geol206/geol206rr2.html

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RE: Seawater - 6/19/2008 10:28:31 PM   
katie978


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Wow, this is an...interesting thread.

Take it from someone who lives by the sea: the ocean is much much saltier than anything you would ever eat happily. If you use a dash of seasalt in your stew, you're not making salt water stew...you're making stew that happens to have a tiny tiny percentage of salt.

The reason that salt water drives you mad is that there is far too much salt for it to ever hydrate you. If you're stranded on the ocean with nothing to eat or drink, sea water becomes an increasingly attractive option. However, drinking it simply makes you more thirsty and dehydrated, so you drink more, which makes you more thirsty and dehydrated until you die. It only takes a very short while of drinking seawater to have serious side affects (such as death).

  The myth that it drives one mad is no old wives tale (or are we being equalists?). Typically, a situation where salt water is the only available water source is a pretty bad one: you're stranded at sea or on a deserted island or something. Dehydration caused by drinking salt water can cause a number of terrible things to happen to the body that would be well within the range of "going mad". The metabolism and kidneys simply can't handle the amount of salt in the body, and symptoms of severe dehydration can include seizures, comas, and brain damage. 

  It seems that wilderness hikers use salt tablets to combat hyperthermia (over-heating) rather than to keep themselves hydrated. While it's true that the body needs salt to function, that amount is typically much smaller than what we're actually consuming.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
But really alot of people who know things would agree, if you can't drink it, you probably shouldn't put it on your skin.



I'm not really sure what types of people who know things would say this. I'm not sitting here chugging sunscreen, but you're supposed to wear it every day. Makeup, lotion, shampoo and condition, SOAP, for christsake: all of these things and more we put on our skin daily with no ill-effects. I have no idea what kind of person would agree that if you can't drink it you shouldn't put it on your skin: maybe a granola crunchy type who believes in breast-feeding children until they're 15. I don't know.



Not really sure why I answered such a silly, off-topic question, but hopefully that answers it. Don't drink salt water. It's a terrible idea (unless you wanted to die (even then, there are better ways to go. Death by orgasm, for example)).

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RE: Seawater - 6/19/2008 10:40:41 PM   
chickpea


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I lived right next to the ocean for a few years and left my bike out on the patio.  The thing almost completely rusted out in less than a year.  Tons of salty moisture gets in the air too.

Seawater, due to its high salinity, will absorb more water soluble toxins from water that has less salinity.  That's why when you soak yourself in salt water, all the impurities get drawn out because the salt water has more salt than your body.  If your body gets too much salt (from drinking the super super salty seawater), than you retain more water that's now super salty.  The body is made up of a bunch of chemical reactions which need the proper pH and temperature.  Drastically altering the salinity will drastically alter the chemical reactions in the body, and will affect everything, from your nervous system, to your brain etc etc.  You can drink as much salt water just like you would drink some super salty soup. 


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RE: Seawater - 6/19/2008 10:45:29 PM   
christine1


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maybe it's the fish poop factor that makes sea water so horrid?

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RE: Seawater - 6/19/2008 10:58:15 PM   
Cottonsocks


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When you swim in the ocean you get wrinkly.  This is because water is leaving your skin cells in an attempt to have equal salt concentrations on either side of the cell membranes.

The reason swimming in salt water or sea water it not as big of a deal as drinking it is, is due to the properties of the epithelium of your skin, as opposed to inside your body.  Your skin has a property known as "keratinisation", which is water resistant.  The cells in your mouth, oesophagus, and the rest of your digestive tract, have no such property.  So, swimming in sea water is ok because of water resistant skin, but drinking it is very bad due to the ease at which water from your cells will diffuse out in response to the higher salt concentration outside the cells. /scientific nerdiness.

Also; natural salt water definitely doesn't have every mineral the human body needs, and they definitely aren't in the right proportion for our bodies.

Madness, as said before, is a result of the severe dehydration experienced due to ingesting sea water.

I really don't understand what you mean by the "if you can't drink it, you probably shouldn't put it on your skin", they are completely different environments, so comparison really isn't a good idea.

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RE: Seawater - 6/20/2008 7:34:35 AM   
Rule


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Sea water is SALT. If you have never taken a swig of sea water you cannot imagine how very SALT it is. That much salt dehydrates the body because of the osmotic process. Also sodium ions have a very important function in numerous biochemical reactions, one of them being the actionpotential of the nerve cells and muscles. Putting a very high concentration of sodium ions from sea water into the brains will cause those nerve cells to be activated inadvertently, causing that person to indeed go flipping mad - and then there are all the other cells and organs that will fail because of a surplus of salt.
 
People in hot weather will take salt tablets (and lots of water) because sweating causes the body to lose lots of salt - and that is not healthy either.
 
Sea water also has hundreds of millions of microorganisms in each milliliter. It will not do harm to take a little sip of sea water as long as one also has fresh water. Nor will it do harm to cook in sea water as long as one can also drink fresh water.

< Message edited by Rule -- 6/20/2008 7:35:29 AM >

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RE: Seawater - 6/20/2008 1:22:53 PM   
DelilahDeb


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I vividly recall the difference of healing speed in my scrapes and bites when I lived close by the ocean and could swim almost daily.

However, drinking sea water, or even cooking with it, I'm reminded of Thor Heyerdahl's notes and comparisions between the KonTiki voyage in 1948, when it only took a few dozen miles for the KonTiki to be in clean pollution- and garbage-free ocean, and his Ra II voyage in 1977, when floating garbage and visible pollution accompanied the Ra II across the entire ocean. Scary.

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RE: Seawater - 6/20/2008 1:32:38 PM   
Rule


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I would certainly not drink sea water in Great Britain, where the sewers empty into the ocean. Nor during the tourist season when the beaches are far from pristine.

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RE: Seawater - 6/20/2008 1:39:04 PM   
tsatske


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I have always had a horrid fascination with the Nazis. I remeber reading as a child that at one of the research facilities, - the ones where they did varoius toxicology tests, to derive LD50s using humans - that one of the tests they did was forcing people to drink ocean water until they died of it.
Another issue i would think would come with drinking sea water - which would only add to and speed up the dehydration, which is the crux of all the isues mentioned here - is that it will make you throw up. If you ever need to throw up, just mix yourself a good strong glass of salt water and drink it, and it will work everytime. and sea water is, again, much saltier than what you would mix up.
Dehydration is probably the 'go mad' part, because dehydration very quickly impares brain function.

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RE: Seawater - 6/20/2008 3:04:56 PM   
sub4hire


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I've never heard these rumors of driving you mad.  I grew up at the ocean...inhaled lots of salt water that I didn't want to.
It doesn't exactly taste like salt water..its horrible.  We make salt water when we have a toothache...big, BIG difference there.

You know sea salt is no better for you than plain old iodized salt.  Any doctor will tell you salt is salt and stop eating it all together.  You get enough in your diet from processed foods already.


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RE: Seawater - 6/20/2008 6:18:26 PM   
Termyn8or


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sub, you are wrong and your doctor is either lying or wrong. Hands down.

There is a very big difference and I will explain it if needed, but if you take the word of one person who makes money when you get sick I do not know what to say. Stick with the guys with letters after their name and you too can be in a nursing home when you get old, with them sapping all your wealth from your hiers.

Dead wrong sub, dead wrong. Get another doctor.

T

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RE: Seawater - 6/20/2008 7:18:33 PM   
katie978


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or


Dead wrong sub, dead wrong. Get another doctor.




What the sam-hell? ...what doctor are we talking about again?

I really didn't expect to see the "Doctors are crazy" conspiracy theory on this thread...seeing as no one has mentioned doctors (with the exception of the person above). And the person above merely mentioned that doctors advise against salt-with heart disease the number one killer in this country, I don't see how anyone could argue with that logic. Of course, people argue that aliens are real and that the Feds track what porn sites we all visit, so I suppose anything is possible.

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RE: Seawater - 6/20/2008 7:22:57 PM   
MistressSybella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DelilahDeb

I vividly recall the difference of healing speed in my scrapes and bites when I lived close by the ocean and could swim almost daily.



That's right! Salt creates a "hostile" environment for bacteria growth. Hense piercers recommending sea salt on a piercing while it is healing.

Regarding salt in the diet, most people eat way too much and you do indeed get lots from processed foods. A body needs salt and iodine but not in the quantities we give it. Excessive salt consumption encourages weight gain, high blood pressure and other health issues. Americans are getting fatter and fatter for a reason. 

So, I have to disagree. sub's doctor is right to encourage less salt usage.

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RE: Seawater - 6/21/2008 4:55:34 AM   
Termyn8or


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Ok then from the top.

The word salt is a derivative of the word salarum, which is also the root of the word salary. When mankind was no longer nomadic, before money was invented people were paid their wages in salt.

When people settled the land became played out and salt was a necessary supplement. It helped keep people alive and healthy.

This was unrefined salt with all the other minerals in it, those which exactly had been extracted from the land through repeated farming. In fact when seawater flooded the land it became more arable. But inland this did not happen of course. So the people used salt, unrefined salt for cooking and preserving food. This added the missing minerals. Livestock were given salt licks.

Thus the saying "The Man is worth his salt".

Today, what is on your kitchen table bears little resemblence to real salt. Of course it is sodium chloride, but really, the salt company makes more money from what they refine out of the salt than they do from the salt itself. These extracts are sold to chemical companies all over the world.

What's more if you are old enough you remember salt clumping up in the shaker, especially in the summer when it was humid. That was solved by adding an anti clumping agent which prevents it from absorbing moisture from the air. This same property is that which makes table salt useless for the body. The anti clumping agent is very similar to what is in those dessicant packs shipped inside of the package with electronic equipment and other things. Note that it says "Do not eat".

So we got table salt from which our bodies cannot properly absorb and metabolise sodium. The sodium goes somewhere and what it does is not healthy. This is not true of unrefined salt.

When doctors say not to eat salt, I wholeheartedly agree about the crap they sell as table salt, but when they claim that unrefined, naturally harvested seasalt is the same, they lose me. They obviously don't know what they're talking about.

If your table salt did not have the anti clumping agent in it you could eat all you want, although it would not be wise unless you are otherwise healthy. It takes a balance of minerals to stay healthy, and anytime they refine something, it is bad.

I did the research and I know these things.

Unrefined seasalt is big business almost, catering to health concious rich folk and gourmet chefs among others. I did not take their word for it, I looked around. Then I plunked down $250 for unrefined seasalt. I use it exclusively. I will not touch table salt.

Seasalt is hard to store and use, it eats everything. That may turn some folks off if they don't realize that your own stomach acid does the same thing. I have gone through numerous grinders, even the ones with ceramic blades. If it doesn't eat them up it clogs them up. I am down to a mortar and pistle.

So salt is not salt. Not necessarily.

But these properties that make it so hard to handle are what make it good for you. The emaciated and poisoned stuff sold by Morton's is not even a shadow of real salt.

Enough on salt, Rule has thusfar given the most coherent response to the OP. But the components of seawater are of course water, and natural salt. They used to harvest it by having a small area which the high tide would flood, and then damming it up so the sun can dry it. From there it was shipped all over the world.

Rule had a possible answer to my question, too much neuron firing or whatever due to an imbalance in the PH, and other things. That was the original question. But when it comes to salt, that stuff on the table is not, plain and simple.

MSG went through a similar metamorphosis. For millenia, healthy Chinese used it liberally, but it was refined differently. Now it has all the dangers of table salt because of pretty much the same reasons, and it does not have the nutriative content it used to.

Even my beloved kelp, which my Grandmother used to put in soup, has been bastardised. They used to farm the kelp from the ocean, where it absorbed all these nutrients. Now they grow it in tanks.

All life on this planet started in the ocean, and continually depends on the ocean.

So salt is not salt, it is not even close.

And just so you know, if you go do the research and decide to switch to unrefined salt I will tell you this. Be careful. It is not as salty, yet there is a fine line between enough and too much. The taste is different. And never let the salt be near metal of any kind.

If you use a spice grinder to grind salt, grind alot of it. No matter how much you clean the grinder, the next time you go to use it, it will be rusty, even if it is stainless steel. That may seem scary, but it's not. It is a natural substance that was used to the benefit of mankind for millenia, until someone came along and figured they knew better.

They don't know better.

T

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RE: Seawater - 6/21/2008 8:28:54 AM   
Evility


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
They don't know better.


How can you possibly be this knowledgable about all the merits of sea salt versus table salt and still ponder whether adding sea salt to water yeilds seawater?

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RE: Seawater - 6/21/2008 11:50:16 AM   
MistressSybella


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LOL! Precisely!

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RE: Seawater - 6/22/2008 7:27:11 PM   
Termyn8or


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Did I say that ? Maybe. Of course I know there would be nothing living in it.

The whole question was about the rumor that you go mad, and on the sideline, if you do, would that apply to regular water mixed with seasalt ?

From what I can glean, I guess it would if the reason given is correct.

T

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