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Power and Power Exchange - 7/9/2008 10:06:22 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		Power: the ability to start and stop motion.
Power over yourself: the ability to start and stop your own actions.

Giving over of power: Ensuring your power over yourself obeys the commands of another.
Receipt of power: Accepting and wielding another's power over him/herself.

Power exchange: A situation in which one person gives over personal power and another receives it.
Power exchange relationship: A power exchange in which at least one of the people is motivated by feelings, commonly kink or love.
Professional power exchange relationship: A power exchange relationship in which the Hard Limits of one of the participants includes nonpayment of money.

Thoughts?


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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec
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RE: Power and Power Exchange - 7/9/2008 10:11:38 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		It's not power exchange, it's authority transfer.

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RE: Power and Power Exchange - 7/9/2008 10:28:08 PM   
SurrenderForMe


Posts: 229
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		The professional power exchange was funny.

Overall, defining things is a bitch and subject to the subjectivity of experiential references skewing perceived meaning. 

(in reply to RedMagic1)
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RE: Power and Power Exchange - 7/9/2008 11:46:22 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline 		This:
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
Power exchange: A situation in which one person gives over personal power and another receives it.

Is more a definition of submission, not Power *Exchange*.  One gives and the other gets???  Equals one way traffic, NOT "exchange"....
 
And this:
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
It's not power exchange, it's authority transfer.

Amounts to the same thing! 
 
Which is hunky-dory for those people who believe in the "gift of submission" or that other chestnut of the sub having all the control. 
 
I don't happen to be one of those people....
 
Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

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RE: Power and Power Exchange - 7/9/2008 11:48:38 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		"Dominants" need to remember that without the cooperation of another person, they are just silly people playing a role-in a very futile and laughable manner.

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I'm not taking custom orders.

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RE: Power and Power Exchange - 7/10/2008 12:10:08 AM   
masterforRT


Posts: 176
Joined: 5/16/2008
Status: offline 		I always thought thet the power exchange was where electric companies bought and sold electric power.

Seriously though, I take very little stock in 'book learning' BDSM and much stock from both personal and shared BDSM experience(s).

A sub submits to her Dom and her Dom accepts her submission. Nothing more, nothing less, IMHO.

< Message edited by masterforRT -- 7/10/2008 12:17:24 AM >

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RE: Power and Power Exchange - 7/10/2008 12:10:39 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline 		Looks like fun; I'll have a stab off the top of my head... lol

Power: A quality that makes one desirable.

Power over yourself: Self control.

Giving over of power: It's not "given" (or received), it's always retained for as long as it's a desirable quality.

Power exchange: Where two opposing but complementing qualities combine to create a dynamic equally desirable to both.
 
Power exchange relationship: Almost *any* intimate relationship.
 
Professional power exchange relationship: Prostitution.
 
Focus.


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Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

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RE: Power and Power Exchange - 7/10/2008 12:16:34 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: masterforRT

A sub submits to her Dom and her Dom acceps her submission. Nothing more, nothing less, IMHO.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course - so this'd be another vote for the "gift of submission"?
 
Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

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RE: Power and Power Exchange - 7/10/2008 1:00:28 AM   
Maxwell67


Posts: 435
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

This:
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
Power exchange: A situation in which one person gives over personal power and another receives it.

Is more a definition of submission, not Power *Exchange*.  One gives and the other gets???  Equals one way traffic, NOT "exchange"....

Looks like a definition of 'surrender' not submission.  And, 'topping from the bottom,' to boot.. what if that dominant deos not accept what was given?  With submission, the active party is the dominant taking power (or authority, what have you).. the submissive simply lets them.

(in reply to Focus50)
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RE: Power and Power Exchange - 7/10/2008 2:52:52 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Power exchange doesn't work.
When you exchange something - it isn't a one sided thing - you do not give and another recieves.  Exchange means you are swapping.
Power is not the ability to stop and start.  That would be motion. Power is the possession of a controling influence such as authority.  I do not give my power, I can surrender it for anothers use, but I cannot give my power away.  It is not physically possible.  If you can think for yourself, you have power.  Even if you do not use the thought.
 
You can pass authority onto another person.  You do not 'exchange it' - if that was the case then the s-type would have authority over the dominant.  You transfere it - much like you would money from an account to account.  This allows something you have to be used by another who has access to the same 'account'.  Does not mean you have less authority to yourself - you can still access it and utilise it yourself when you need and want to.
 
With all respect to Focus, I do not see transfer and exchange as the same.  They are completely different concepts.  Exchange is an equal swap, transfer is a movement of an item from one place to another which does not necessarily mean it is fixed.
 
In all, they are just catch words to make things seem acceptable and well thought out.
 
the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Power and Power Exchange - 7/10/2008 3:13:46 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Power exchange: A situation in which one person gives over personal power and another receives it.


An exchange is a transfer of one thing for another.  An exchange is a transaction.  If i give over personal power, or i transfer Authority and i get nothing, then how is that an exchange?  When i surrender to my Master i am not giving Him power or authority...that He already has.  He cannot give me submission or obedience.  What we do is recognize, accept, and celebrate those attributes in an exchange that we call a relationship.  It is His expression of power and His excercise of authority that allows me to express my submission and perform my service.  It is an ever renewing cycle that has brought peace and order into our lives in our unique way. 

To give power to someone who receives it, without any expectation of a return smacks of martyrdom, but even the martyr expects to get something out of it. 



_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

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RE: Power and Power Exchange - 7/10/2008 3:17:02 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

 
With all respect to Focus, I do not see transfer and exchange as the same.  They are completely different concepts.  Exchange is an equal swap, transfer is a movement of an item from one place to another which does not necessarily mean it is fixed.

Errrm, neither do I....  lol 
 
I likened 'transfer' and the OP's definition of PE to the *gift* of submission or of being one way traffic.  IE, the sub is apparently the one with all the power and the dom/me is reduced to a passive entity until the sub empowers them.  
 
Makes it sound like a dom/me has nothing to offer in their own right and that we sit around hoping one day to be a sub's chosen one.  I don't think soooo; I've got something equally unique and attractive to submissives - something worth "swapping"....  
 
Focus. 

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

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RE: Power and Power Exchange - 7/10/2008 3:29:09 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

 
With all respect to Focus, I do not see transfer and exchange as the same.  They are completely different concepts.  Exchange is an equal swap, transfer is a movement of an item from one place to another which does not necessarily mean it is fixed.

Errrm, neither do I....  lol 
 
I likened 'transfer' and the OP's definition of PE to the *gift* of submission or of being one way traffic.  IE, the sub is apparently the one with all the power and the dom/me is reduced to a passive entity until the sub empowers them.  
 
Makes it sound like a dom/me has nothing to offer in their own right and that we sit around hoping one day to be a sub's chosen one.  I don't think soooo; I've got something equally unique and attractive to submissives - something worth "swapping"....  
 
Focus. 


There is an actual 'phew' moment.  I am so used to reading your posts and agreeing I was kinda surprised I didn;t this time.  My apology for misunderstanding.
 
I totally agree with the whole concept that it feels as though the dominant is turned into some passive entity with nothing to give.  Which is why I prefere the thought of it being a transfer.  For me, it's like having a joint account and both parties put something in the pot which they both dip into.  Not particularly romantic, but very practical.
 
the.dark.

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RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Power and Power Exchange - 7/10/2008 3:35:41 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Maxwell67

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

This:
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
Power exchange: A situation in which one person gives over personal power and another receives it.

Is more a definition of submission, not Power *Exchange*.  One gives and the other gets???  Equals one way traffic, NOT "exchange"....

Looks like a definition of 'surrender' not submission.  And, 'topping from the bottom,' to boot.. what if that dominant deos not accept what was given?  With submission, the active party is the dominant taking power (or authority, what have you).. the submissive simply lets them.

Yep, that'll do me; 'surrender' is a better fit....
 
Don't really agree with the rest, though.  Especially about how "the submissive simply lets them".  Still sounds like the sub in this context has all the control whereas I've got a lot more on offer than a mere power of veto!
 
Power Exchange is a matter of *both* being the "active party" who contribute equally or there is no D/s dynamic, only frustration or abuse. 
 
Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

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RE: Power and Power Exchange - 7/10/2008 3:54:33 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

There is an actual 'phew' moment.  I am so used to reading your posts and agreeing I was kinda surprised I didn;t this time.  My apology for misunderstanding.
 
I totally agree with the whole concept that it feels as though the dominant is turned into some passive entity with nothing to give.  Which is why I prefere the thought of it being a transfer.  For me, it's like having a joint account and both parties put something in the pot which they both dip into.  Not particularly romantic, but very practical.

"phew"?  Am a sweetheart; a big teddy bear - honest injun...!  lol
 
But perhaps it's my turn to have misunderstood....  "Transfer" doesn't automatically imply something is moving back and forth, only that it is moving (one way).  However, "exchange" does imply a trade off - you get something *in return* for what's given.  I think I get what you mean but if you *prefer* "transfer", then you need to qualify it by saying something's tranferred *mutually*, ie, both ways simultaneously....
 
Please tell me I'm close - head's in danger of hurting here....  lmao
 
Focus.


_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

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RE: Power and Power Exchange - 7/10/2008 4:26:02 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		Yep, I have to agree with everyone else; it's not an exchange; it's a transfer of authority.

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If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


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RE: Power and Power Exchange - 7/10/2008 4:30:24 AM   
TysGalilah


Posts: 589
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline 		Power:  authoritative strength asserted
Power over yourself:  self-control 

Giving over of power: surrender
Receipt of power: empowerment

Power exchange: Each having a sense of personal power and through the expression/assertion of their individual role, they empower the other in theirs.  ** see below
Power exchange relationship: The above, in a committed relationship dynamic.
Professional power exchange relationship: Professional ? as in paid/$ exchanged? > no power exchanged, just money.  Each holds tightly to their own power ( each feeling that they themselves hold all the power).  imo, neither does, the money holds all the authority.
 
 
**In a Ds relationship context, I agree that authority transfer sounds more accurate a description to me.  I do feel an "empowerment" happens though and could be called an EMpowerment exchange.
  If power is "authoritative strength asserted" then the dominant would not be exchanging his/hers to or with subordinant. But he or she does not really have the authority unless it is given or surrendered by the other ( so not a true exchange).  Cannot have two leaders or both in authority, but both can have personal power and empower the other.
 
my head hurts...
 

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galilah

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

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RE: Power and Power Exchange - 7/10/2008 4:41:03 AM   
pettingdragons


Posts: 421
Joined: 8/16/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

For me, it's like having a joint account and both parties put something in the pot which they both dip into.  Not particularly romantic, but very practical. 
the.dark.

 
it can be romantic.....girl is Masters dripping honey pot so its the pot they both dip into......
 
Honestly...thats the best definition this girl has seen in a long time, its simple and to the point and it encompasses many different dynamics found in life (not just in BDSM)...thank you dark....
 

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pettingdragons
"may the moon bless you with her light.......so you dont pee on your feet"

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RE: Power and Power Exchange - 7/10/2008 4:56:53 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		I'm one of those people that using the buzzword "power exchange".  But I don't take the word power too serious.   I'm with LA on it being authority transfer.  The only reason why I use the buzzword is for the sake of communication.  TPE is a concept that is understood by many people.

If you think more in terms of authority, and less in terms of power.  Life will make much more sense.

Authority transfer can happen in non-lifestyle relationships as well.  There are different levels of transfers that can occur.

I'm totally 100% with Leatherist on this post he made. 

quote:


"Dominants" need to remember that without the cooperation of another person, they are just silly people playing a role-in a very futile and laughable manner.


It also takes time, energy and work at fostering cooperation.  It's something that you have to nuture and tend to as well.   Else you will find yourself not DOMing anybody at all.   This applies to BDSM lifestyle relationships, and other relationships outside of the BDSM lifestyle itself.

I will be so bold (knowing somebody will want to pour gasoline on me and light a match) to say, that in many regards, it's my own personal belief in what seperates a Natural every where and every place Dominant between somebody who's an at home only Dominant.  I'm not saying that "at home" only Dominants are not Dom.

I know what I just posted with have some people screaming bloody murder at me, that I just caused a few knees to jerk.  Perhaps inspire or spark an angry reaction.

This whole business of breaking down things, and coming up with meaning can be a nasty job.   It's an affair to which people enter into many debates over.

However, Authority Transfer, I believe is very accurate for all relationships.  It even is varied from M/s or D/s relationship to relationship.  Authority Transfer happens on the Social level as well.   There is a bit of a blur between BDSMers and so called Vanillas.   In short, there are dynamics in BDSM that apply to everybody in the world.   We just have nice labels and seek to become discplined in the things we do.

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RE: Power and Power Exchange - 7/10/2008 5:27:16 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave
However, Authority Transfer, I believe is very accurate for all relationships. 


i agree that Authority Transfer is a better description than Power Exchange, but in our relationship there is still an exchange.  We don't exchange power for power or authority for authority but there has to be an exchange of energy in order for the Relationship to continue to grow.  Even if i transfer some or all of my authority, there is a transaction, a bi-directional exchange.  How that is defined, i really don't know, but i can try to imagine a city with only one-way streets all in the same direction making it impossible to get anywhere but out. 


_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

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