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School Me on Choking - 7/23/2008 5:53:40 PM   
Daddystouch


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From: South East England
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What's some advice and/or articles/guides etc I should read before engaging in choking/beath play?

I have tried choking a partner with my hands, but never very hard or for very long due to safety fears. I'm mostly interested in choking by hand, but some kind of ligature might interest me, as might some obstruction to the mouth and nose, making my partner 'suck air' hard in order to try and breath properly.


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RE: School Me on Choking - 7/23/2008 5:55:58 PM   
softness


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its hot ...

oh sorry you wanted guidance?

there are some really good people running workshops in the UK on it .. I would attend one of those ... think the CMunch does one run by the Leather Family ... they always give great advice/demos on edge play

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RE: School Me on Choking - 7/23/2008 6:02:16 PM   
Daddystouch


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From: South East England
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Motherfu...

I was just thinking of trying to find some pictures of choking. Partly because, ok, hands up, it's hot as you say! But also to look at hand placement and the like. Then I remembered I live in United Soviets of Europe (Anglo Sector), and that such degenerate and subversive material is banned in the same category as pre-teen child pornography. Looks like I'll just have to rely on the written word, and if it gets my partner killed, oh well!*

*Yeh, ok, I can go to demos :P That sounds like a good idea.


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RE: School Me on Choking - 7/23/2008 6:42:00 PM   
variation30


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    wow. I had no idea england was that bad.

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RE: School Me on Choking - 7/23/2008 6:54:18 PM   
Alumbrado


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Don't use a ligature, if you must apply pressure to the neck, only use the vascular lateral technique that cuts down blood flow, and won't crush the windpipe, etc.  And before you do that, make sure your partner is young and in good health.  (Older people are more prone to high blood pressure, TIAs, and such).

Note that judo competitors have been applying these to resistant partners for many decades without a track record of problems.

If you want to control the flow of air, don't use anything like plastic wrap that will get sucked tighter, or even sucked in, should the person panic for air.  A little leakage from covering with the hands isn't going to diminish the sensation, but whether hands or some object like a gas mask or cup, don't press in hard enough to cause unintended injuries to the face.


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RE: School Me on Choking - 7/23/2008 8:54:48 PM   
Diphon


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best advice I can give is, always try something like this on yourself first. So you get an idea of what different things feel like. Than remember that whoever you might do it to, probably has a softer neck than you do so be more gentle.

that and be careful you can crush a trachia with three fingers. I usually prefer to cover the mouth and nose with my hand if I want to control her breathing.


< Message edited by Diphon -- 7/23/2008 8:56:38 PM >

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RE: School Me on Choking - 7/23/2008 8:56:32 PM   
joyinslavery


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I would...

but it might turn out badly.

Have fun. 

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RE: School Me on Choking - 7/23/2008 9:17:59 PM   
ResidentSadist


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-=Disclaimer=-
Don’t do it … It can result in brain damage, heart attack and death as well as your incarceration if you fuck up.  It can also result in any one of those things if the person you’re playing with fucks up or has some medical condition they didn’t know about (i.e. Viagra warning). 

Don’t do it… I am a little nervous making this post thinking that I could be responsible for contributing to someone else running head long and ill informed into breath play.  Just pick up the newspaper or search the internet for auto asphyxia death and you will see death is the result of careless breath play

Don’t do it… and certainly don’t do it with just the information you’re about to get in a thread on a forum.  After reading books and studying the essays on the internet, you might want to find a mentor that hasn’t killed any of his subs with breath play lately and study with them a bit too.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now that the disclaimer is outta’ the way, and you're going to do it anyway, you might want to see some of these warnings and follow some of these tips.   
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-=How To Do It=-

*You can’t choke somebody safely by squeezing their neck to cause asphyxia… You have to crush vitally important things to collapse the esophagus and stop air flow.  They may never talk right again with a shattered larynx and very well may die from the crushed esophagus. 

* You can safely squeeze someone’s neck pinching off their carotid arteries to cause hypoxia … which is has similar effects like asphyxia.  Hypoxia is is reduced oxygen, specifically in the blood; anoxia is when there is no oxygen available at all. 

* Learn to automatically set off a silent timer in your mind in which you’re counting to yourself.  Then you need to learn the safety time limits for hypoxia / asphyxia.

* Be careful when doing breath play with men that use Viagra… up of the have heart problems that is the true cause of their erectile problems.  You are playing with heart attack risk!

* You can safely create asphyxia … pic 1 / pic 2 / pic 3     The You can safely choke someone and truly restrict their air flow by using gasmasks or putting your hand over their mouth and nose.  You can also severely restrict their air flow, enough to make them pass out usually, by lifting up under their chin and pressing on the soft meat near where the bronchial tubes vent.  It’s at the top of your throat under your chin.  Take your own hand right now and put it on the front of your neck. But don’t squeeze your neck, just slide your hand up into the soft meat at the base of your jaw between the bones. You will feel your tongue fill your throat and cut off your air if you press up hard enough.  On some people this is harder to do than others and you cannot achieve complete air flow restriction, they can still gurgle and gasp a little bit.

* You can safely create hypoxia … pic 1 / pic 2   Simply wrap your hands around their neck and squeeze mildly until you pinch off the carotid arteries.  Everyone’s version of mild or firm is open to interpretation so I give you this exact measure.  Put your hand gently on your own neck and touch your carotid arteries with your fingers on one side and your thumb on the other.  You should be able to feel your pulse.  If you don’t feel it, press a little bit harder.  Now press harder and harder until you feel that you’ve cut that pulse off.  Start counting and release before you get to 100.  Two minutes is average amount of time someone can hold their breath but while their breath as held, they’re still getting oxygen.  To find the right number be to do some research and experiment with your partner.   I just picked the number 100 because that should be long enough for you to start getting the beginning feelings of it.  I didn’t want to have a bunch of fellow forum members passed out face down and their keyboards because they listened to what Residents Sadist said to do it! 

* You can safely make someone pass out by creating asphyxia and hypoxia at the same time… Now we’ve all just squeezed our necks to cut the blood flow off in our carotid arteries.  We also learned to lift up into the meat under their chin and choke them.  So wrap your hand firmly around your neck squeezing just enough to cut off the carotid arteries while simultaneously lifting up into the meat under the chin and now you are chocking while cutting off blood flow.  That should cause a real life :::::::::thud:::::::::: in pretty short order. 

* Read every single thing and all of these links:
Breath Control Article By Dirk
The Medical Realities of Breath Control Play Article by Jay Wiseman
An overview on breath Play See all chapters for excellent risk info and how and why it works. 

* Now that you been schooled practice (LOL), you need to sort out your goals, make a plan and practice. If you practice on yourself a few times first, you will learn faster because you pick up all the nuances your partner would be feeling.    

-Role playing pass out cold and raped - Is this ‘play’ for fulfilling fantasies to make them dizzy, pass out and rape them while they’re unconscious? 

-Orgasm Enhancement - If it is for orgasm enhancement I suggest cutting off their air. Even auto asphyxiation is the latest thing on campus because it enhances organism. There’s nothing like a little choky choky after some good spanky spanky to enhance the squirty squirty! 

-Fear play - If it is for fear play and you want to inflict that ill sinking feeling of death then I’d go for restricted blood flow.  When someone is able to breath but their blood flow is cut off while you are telling them that you hold their life in your hands, that creepy ill feeling they get from it enhances the fantasy role play.  They hear your words as tunnel vision sets in and their years start to ring.  The reality is you really are holding their life in your hands and if you did manage to cut off all their blood flow for more than eight minutes, you would be doing some damage eventually cause death. 

* … and last but not least you may want to enjoy some of the more pleasurable sides of asphyxiation in these links;
Breath Play Groups List
Breath Play Safety List
Asphyxia Movie List 
Asphyxiation Fix Video - awesome BDSM music video - (Real Player)
One of my fav videos
Clicking this link should pop open your Real Player.  Allow a minute for real player to open, its a big file.

Asphyxiation Fix Lyrics
You wanna’ use me up
I let you bring me down
I watch you own me
You can have me

The more I cry, the harder you get
I'm getting high and you make me wet
The more I fight, the more you cum
You tie me up and my mind goes numb
Asphyxiation fix, you pull the rope around my neck
Asphyxiation fix, I need it more than I’ll ever admit

Tired of getting used
I let you hold me whenever you want to
A little scared, a little excited
You fuck me harder when I try to fight it

The more I cry, the harder you get
I'm getting high and you’re making me wet
The more I fight, the more you cum
You tie me up and my mind goes numb
Asphyxiation fix, you pull the rope around my neck
Asphyxiation fix, I need it more than I’ll ever admit

The pain makes me numb
I wanna’ make you cum
You make me feel just like a whore
I keep coming back for more
Asphyxiation fix, you pull the rope around my neck
Asphyxiation fix, I need it more than I’ll ever admit
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ok bro… you been schooled as good as it gets for any thread!  Have fun, be safe. 
I do not claim this is the end all of information or that my perspectives are right for you.  I am just sharing what little I do know about the topic so you can at least enjoy it to the degree I do. I look forward to seeing replies with other tips, trix and perspectives. 

And to all you flag waving SSC people that will spontaniously burst into flames upon reading my reply, I say don't do it.  Don't use breath play.  I am not selling anyting here, neither should you! 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Side bar: This was a very touchy subject to post about for me.  I have VERY strong feelings because my dad was a doctor and he taught me a slightly different perspective than what Jay Wiseman professes.  Although my father was lifestyle, his hypoxia and asphyxia information was passed on to me because he and I were scuba divers.  He wanted me to know the timelines and effects of asphyxiation in case of an accident.  He literally wanted me to learn at which point after asphyxia from drowning I should not revive him because he would have been severally brain damaged.

Of note: My dad was a member of the Water Bugs in Florida back in the 50s, he taught the sheriffs department to scuba dive and he had the 10th aqua lung ever made.  He got it from Jacques Cousteau.


< Message edited by ResidentSadist -- 7/23/2008 9:32:19 PM >


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RE: School Me on Choking - 7/24/2008 1:06:12 AM   
ResidentSadist


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~FYI~

Asphyxiation Fix Video - awesome BDSM music video - (Real Player)

Yes this link works.  It takes 1 - 2 minutes at 450kbps.  Your new browser window will be “stupid” until the BIG video downloads enough for your computer to realize it needs to pop up your RealPlayer.  It should not effect or lag your original collar chat browser pages.  Just hit the link and a keep doing what ever you were doing until your RealPlayer pops on. 

Yes it’s worth waiting 60 seconds or more to see this big full length custom rock music video in which both the song and BDSM performances were written and scripted exclusively for this video.

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RE: School Me on Choking - 7/24/2008 1:14:51 AM   
softness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

* You can safely make someone pass out 

-Role playing pass out cold and raped - Is this ‘play’ for fulfilling fantasies to make them dizzy, pass out and rape them while they’re unconscious? 

-Fear play - If it is for fear play and you want to inflict that ill sinking feeling of death then I’d go for restricted blood flow.  When someone is able to breath but their blood flow is cut off while you are telling them that you hold their life in your hands, that creepy ill feeling they get from it enhances the fantasy role play.  They hear your words as tunnel vision sets in and their years start to ring.  The reality is you really are holding their life in your hands and if you did manage to cut off all their blood flow for more than eight minutes, you would be doing some damage eventually cause death. 


And to all you flag waving SSC people that will spontaniously burst into flames upon reading my reply, I say don't do it.  Don't use breath play.  I am not selling anyting here, neither should you! 



gently creams self to all of the above .... this is why my office chair has a wipe clean cover

especially the SSC bit .. *snorts* ... brilliant

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio





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RE: School Me on Choking - 7/24/2008 4:29:04 AM   
Alumbrado


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There is nothing about breath play done properly that violates SSC, so it looks like you are in fact selling something...

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RE: School Me on Choking - 7/24/2008 5:34:44 AM   
OldBastardly1


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Good info RS.
I would strongly suggest that before you engage in any type of breathplay, that you learn CPR. This should be your first class.

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RE: School Me on Choking - 7/24/2008 5:42:22 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


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Hi Daddystouch,

I can tell you how I do breathplay, its rather like masterbating since I don't have a well trained dominant to do it for me.

I simply go out and mow the lawn.  Granted, my method works best during spring, or other allergy season but I can pretty much guarantee I'll be coughing and gasping for breath, pdq.  Hot and sexy, I know, but  I'm just a proper slut like that.  The poor attending at the hospital has no clue why I keep saying, "Thank you daddy, may I have another" during my breathing treatments. 

Best wishes on your own training,
WinD



< Message edited by WinsomeDefiance -- 7/24/2008 5:46:47 AM >

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RE: School Me on Choking - 7/24/2008 6:33:18 AM   
ResidentSadist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OldBastardly1
Good info RS.
I would strongly suggest that before you engage in any type of breathplay, that you learn CPR. This should be your first class.

THANK YOU - THANK YOU - THANK YOU, better advice does not exist!!!  I swear it was in number 1 in my original sarcastic response that suggested CPR, a good trail lawyer, group funeral discount rates etc.  I lost it in the evolution to a serious reply.  Thank you again for your sane advice in this edgy and borderline topic. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado
There is nothing about breath play done properly that violates SSC, so it looks like you are in fact selling something...

Facts are facts and you have spoken a deadly lie.  I will correct you so the readers of this thread don’t take your uneducated opinion as being anything other than your own ignorance.  I am one of the craziest sadistic fucks on these boards and I have cut people open and sutured them back up but I would never advise that breath play falls within SSC.

Your reference material was provided for you right here in this thread.  You did not read one damn article in the links I said were a must read.  If you had you wouldn't dare tout that deadly lie in this thread to noobs looking for advice about breath play.  If you had read The Medical Realities of Breath Control Play Article by Jay Wiseman, you wouldn’t preach SSC & breath play being safe because in that article the very Gods of BDSM that purvey SSC say:

"We have discussed how breath control might be done in a way that is not life-threatening, and come up blank."

"As a person with years of medical education and experience, I know of no way whatsoever that either suffocation or strangulation can be done in a way that does not intrinsically put the recipient at risk of cardiac arrest.”


Breath play to the SSC world is NOT SAFE.  So breath play is LIFE-THREATING and causes heart attacks according to the hero of the politically correct SSC culture.  So don’t you try to sell "nothing about breath play done properly that violates SSC" when in fact, the community leaders and educators that practice SSC do not agree with you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm not saying (or selling) that you shouldn't do breath play.  Hell, I shared with you how I do it.  What I am saying is don't do breath play uneducated or under false feelings of safety.  Know the real risk and proceed accordingly.  Know the risk and proceed into the world of edge play under real pretense.

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I give good thread.


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RE: School Me on Choking - 7/24/2008 6:50:37 AM   
poisonedprogress


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Wow. ResidentSadist and OldBastardly1 pretty much nailed it.

The only advice I'd offer on top of that, as person with years of experience with numerous martial arts, is to cough up the cash for a private lesson or two with a martial arts instructor who can show you how to safely apply a choke. Blood chokes are obviously much safer than air chokes, but even air chokes done properly can be perfectly safe if you don't recklessly apply far more pressure than necessary. Text descriptions and pics are great, but no match for instruction. Many martial arts schools offer one-off seminars at very reasonable prices, but you might have to wait a while before the "choke seminar" comes up on the schedule. A lot of martial arts schools also offer CPR training believe it or not...

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RE: School Me on Choking - 7/24/2008 7:36:07 AM   
LadyLynx


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I prefer the covering mouth/nose method. I've done it, and had it done to me. the last time I had it done, my partner covered my mouth and nose, and gently stroked my throat. mmmmmmmmmmmm.  Have no interest in going farther with it on ethier end.

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RE: School Me on Choking - 7/24/2008 8:54:50 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: poisonedprogress

Wow. ResidentSadist and OldBastardly1 pretty much nailed it.

The only advice I'd offer on top of that, as person with years of experience with numerous martial arts, is to cough up the cash for a private lesson or two with a martial arts instructor who can show you how to safely apply a choke. Blood chokes are obviously much safer than air chokes, but even air chokes done properly can be perfectly safe if you don't recklessly apply far more pressure than necessary. Text descriptions and pics are great, but no match for instruction. Many martial arts schools offer one-off seminars at very reasonable prices, but you might have to wait a while before the "choke seminar" comes up on the schedule. A lot of martial arts schools also offer CPR training believe it or not...


I'll have to second this piece of advice.   Even martial Arts training in the basics of how to hit somebody is a good thing to understand.   How to hit to cause damage and how to hit to not cause damage.    Then there are aspects of pressure points and other things.

I would go so far, to say, it's a good idea to read up on the subject of martial arts, if you can't attend a class or seminar even.  I have not searched through youtube yet, but I'm certain somebody has created some Instructional Material.  If not, it's just a matter of time before such material is posted.

First time, I had engaged in Breath Play, it involved the use of a plastic bag over the head.   It actually took a little convincing for me to engage in this activitity.  In fact she demostrated holding the bag over her head and timing things.  Then I tested it out on myself, to actually get a better understanding of the experience.   This was the start of playing with plastic bags over the head.   Very similar to the whole Gas Mask concept that RS posted.    Actually this thread is making me rethink things about the use of Gas Masks.   Still, this activitity carries risks with it.

Choke holds applied to anybody carry risks, it's best to minimize the risks if you are going to do this.  Still as it's been pointed out there are risks involved.

Here's another form or deviation of things to do.   The person has to be standing, fold their arms across thier chest like an Eypgtian mummy.  Take a deep break and hold it.    Another person behind them wraps their arms around them, right below where their elbows are bent at.  Picks them up off the floor like a bear hug.   The lifting person leans backwards slightly, the person being lifted must hold their breath.  Then all of sudden!   Poof!!!  They totatally pass out from it!!  Lights out!!!...  Ok, this is not all violent and such, with having your hard around somebody's throat and stuff.    This is an activitity, I have done and have had it done to me.

ONE PIECE OF ADVICE to anybody!   If you make somebody pass out!  When they start to come around again! They will be totally disoriented.   They will not even know who the fuck you are, or who they are for a brief period of time.  Actually, this part of the experience is an intense mindfuck itself.   It's something that you have to be prepared to deal with.   You have to consider the state of mind somebody coming back from being forced to pass out is in!   They might even react in a violent manner, call it protective instincts kicking in.   Don't assume for an instance that they are going to recongnize nor be all that trusting right away.  Not until the Oxygen kicks back into their brain to where they can think straight again and comprehend.

I have to mention this!  Sure it can be dangerous for a submissive.  However, it can dangerious to the top/Domme when the sub/bottom is coming back to life.   Not a good idea to have things such as knife or anything that could be used as weapon laying around.. and don't be suprised if the bottom/sub might be prone to take a swing at you, or is really freaked out at first.

People generally assume that when somebody is coming back around, that they are in complete control of themselves, and are mentally aware of WTF just happened.   It's not the case..

This is about the only things I have to add or expound upon in this thread, without repeating much of what other people have posted so far.

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RE: School Me on Choking - 7/24/2008 9:50:00 AM   
MasterofScyn


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The Most I'll allow in this kind of play is a hand on my throat with a firm grip, nothing serious. Mostly the feel of Masters hand wrapped around my throat that does it for me. My hair is long enough that sometimes he'll hold it firmly around my neck. Mostly to keep me in my place lol.

As for anything like this stuff. Heavy breath play, I have a hard enough time breathing, i'm always in need of air. *major Sinus problems.* Anything that does any kind of restriction like a mask or anything t hat covers my head. I will freak out. I'm not the best kind of pet for this kind of play. Sometimes I wish I was though, watching how those that can handle it does turn me on a little.  

Anyway... I like the advice I read i might consider a few of them.... MAYBE... I would have really have to consider.

Scyn ~

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RE: School Me on Choking - 7/24/2008 10:39:31 AM   
GreedyTop


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~FR~

ok, there is NOTHING safe about breath play!!!  I don't care WHAT martial arts MASTER you school under..there is NOTHING SAFE ABOUT IT!!!!  Each time you restrict oxygen or blood to the brain you ARE killing brain cellls.

THAT being said.. for me personally, it is one of the quickest ways to turn me into a puddle of gooey mess... YES, I do recognize that I am consenting to permanent brain damage by doing this, whether or not it is apparent at this time or in the future.

But.. it is a risk that I (as the sick fucking bitch that I am) am willing to take.....AT THIS TIME.

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RE: School Me on Choking - 7/24/2008 10:49:39 AM   
eyesopened


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Thank you for your comments!

my Master has introduced me to masks and to gas masks.  i have never been interested in 'breath play' but when i wore the respirator i understood that while He will never prevent me from breathing, when i wear the respirator, HE OWNS the very air i am allowed to breathe.  Very cool for my mindset.  Entirely safe, hell probably downright boring for some people.  But it ensures i am here to serve another day and not end up in some form of a vegetable.

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