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Problem is...as much as I really hate the fact that we are in Iraq, the questionable circumstances that put us there, and the way it's being handled... an immediate withdrawl of troops would really fuck things up for years to come.

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How can we get out of Iraq honorably?

Since you asked and not one to skirt a question; my unpopular but pragmatic solution would be, (SURPRISE) to withdraw. Not only from Iraq and the middle east but the rest of the world too. I'd call for the US to eliminate all military presence throughout the world. South Korea would fall within weeks, Taiwan within the hour. A few more soon after. All returning troops would serve two functions. First to find capture and deport all illegal aliens, while fining the companies who hired them and placing the corporate officers in prison. Then I'd put entire military on border patrol. I remove all the "quality" airport security personnel and replace them with armed military personnel. For security I would adopt the Israeli versio of swift and brutal retaliation for any act perpetrated on US soil by a foreign power, or a foreign based terrorist group. Before I get the argument of "how will you be sure who did it and know who to go after?"; I'll take my "best guess" and deal with the consequences of "mistakes".

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ORIGINAL: veronicaofML

i am REALLY sorry but as "I" see it???????????????

ALL politicians are liars n thieves and oughta be shot on shot.


i hate politics, race, religion, sex and little green men for topics........

none of it is valid information.

take care

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I would further encourage our brothers and sisters in Canada, the UK and throughout the EU, to systematically end all immigration, both legal and illegal. And that includes any and all types political asylum, regardless of the reasoning.

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ORIGINAL:

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I would further encourage our brothers and sisters in Canada, the UK and throughout the EU, to systematically end all immigration, both legal and illegal. And that includes any and all types political asylum, regardless of the reasoning.

Say what? I didn't realize you were American Indian Ranger? I thought you said Italian/Immigrant? End legal immigration? M

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I would further encourage our brothers and sisters in Canada, the UK and throughout the EU, to systematically end all immigration, both legal and illegal. And that includes any and all types political asylum, regardless of the reasoning.

My strategy would fall under the simple premise that whether it be the Ukraine, Mexico or any part of the Middle East, there are more good and ethical people living in those places than corrupt tyrants.

By forcing the unhappy, good, ethical people to remain in their countries of origin {Because there is no other possible place to immigrate to }, it would eventually foment a revolution from within. The only choice would be to live in misery or fight for change.

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ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

Angel.....


I usually agree with the logic in your writings, but I really think if people get to the point that they are hurting bad enough and can identify the root cause of that hurt, they will rise up and take care of the problem. It's an inherent trait in every human, they've just gotta find it within themselves.



- The Ranger

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Exactly Ranger - which is why immigration HAS to exist.
Without it - countries will continue on with the way they are. They will murder, rape, torture, attack and grow stronger. Its not until outsiders become affected will the pain stop. The mass immigrations of asylum seekers places huge amounts of strain on wefare, housing, jobs and hospitals... then people notice - then the outside world pays attention. Without outside help and involvement - these butchers, torturers, rapists WILL persist.
The logic You are using is akin to say that let the victim deal with the rapist by themself - and thats never going to work, because the rapist will just move onto another victim unless the previous victim kills the rapist. And in that - the victim will then feel no better... some do - but the majority need and desire help...

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ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

Angel.....


I usually agree with the logic in your writings, but I really think if people get to the point that they are hurting bad enough and can identify the root cause of that hurt, they will rise up and take care of the problem. It's an inherent trait in every human, they've just gotta find it within themselves.



- The Ranger

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Not to simplify the whole thing as I know it's more complicated as this but I think it's good that we haven't had anymore attacks like 9/11 since we've begun our attacks against terrorist and liberating impoverished people.

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ORIGINAL: MrThorns


I mean, a large portion of Iraqis could have identified Saddam as the root of their strife, yes? Why then, didn't they rise up against him? No revolution...no real resistance. I know that fear can be used effectively to control a population (ie. Terror Alert Levels), but if the suffering is so great, wouldn't the population be able to overcome that fear and do what they felt was necessary?

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ORIGINAL: pollux

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ORIGINAL: MrThorns


I mean, a large portion of Iraqis could have identified Saddam as the root of their strife, yes? Why then, didn't they rise up against him? No revolution...no real resistance. I know that fear can be used effectively to control a population (ie. Terror Alert Levels), but if the suffering is so great, wouldn't the population be able to overcome that fear and do what they felt was necessary?

That's not correct.

The Shiites and Kurds both rebelled against Saddam in 1991, after the first Gulf War. They were encouraged to do so by statements made by the US which led them to believe the US would support them. Of course, the US didn't support them in any significant way, and Saddam was able to crush both movements.

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ORIGINAL: MrThorns


So what about now? If we left tomorrow, I'm sure someone would try and establish a new dictatorship. With Saddam out of power, are the Iraqi people able and willing to stand up for themselves without the US against the next opressor that presents itself??

~Thorns

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They were encouraged to do so by statements made by the US which led them to believe the US would support them. Of course, the US didn't support them in any significant way, and Saddam was able to crush both movements.

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Thorns: Isolationism didn't work for China, isn't working for N Korea and won't work for the U.S. either. We are just too dependent on other countries for support.

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HAR! Yup, you read me right.
In a nutshell : Think of the United States as just a larger version of Easter Island. The island has a limited amount of resources to sustain a certain level of population. The population is increasing at an exponential rate; while the resources needed to sustain the population are dwindling.

Not only should this country end legal and illegal immigration, it should also put an emphasis on depopulation. {Meaning : to encourage the current population to not to repopulate}

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it should also put an emphasis on depopulation

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bar·ba·rism Audio pronunciation of "Barbarism" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bärb-rzm)
n.

1. An act, trait, or custom characterized by ignorance or crudity.
2.
1. The use of words, forms, or expressions considered incorrect or unacceptable.

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Now.... I know my logic my seem brutal, but we can't keep coddling these people! We've gotta make them stand on their two feet and fight back! And the best way to do that is, force them to remain in misery, amongst the evil, greedy and corrupt, as one day{Hopefully soon} they will get tired of it

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pollux
They were encouraged to do so by statements made by the US which led them to believe the US would support them. Of course, the US didn't support them in any significant way, and Saddam was able to crush both movements.

Mercnbeth,
And therein lies the primary cause of where we are today in Iraq. I think it has more to do with US "credibility" than any other. It can also be sighted as contributory to 9/11.

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How very convenient for you to have come to this conclusion now that your parents and you have had your opportunity to prosper in these United States on the backs of others. We can't forget history just because it's convenient at this moment.