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UtopianRanger -> RE: Solutions? (11/22/2005 7:43:52 PM)
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How very convenient for you to have come to this conclusion now that your parents and you have had your opportunity to prosper in these United States on the backs of others. We can't forget history just because it's convenient at this moment
My position has nothing to do with the fact that me and mine have already prospered and we don't care about others. My post clearly says that I want to these people to be happy and successful, but I think they need to find it within themselves and do it within their own countries. When and if they finally do so, not only will they be better off as a people, but both the united states and the rest of the world will be better off.
You're absolutely correct about us not forgetting history, however, at the same time we need to be very mindful that we can't live in the past. This country is clearly not in the same position it was when they came through Ellis Island. Remember, our resources are in a state of decline and we need to be logical and pragmatic.
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Barbarism! Oh Yes, that is what we need to return to so we can save these United Sates. You should know that people immigrate and emigrate into and out of the US legally all the time, and that legal movement has never broken our backs. Illegal I can agree is draining the system.
Barbarism? Again... I call it being logical and pragmatic. Many of the leading minds on the planet believe that overpopulation will ultimately lead to our demise. My analogy regards Easter Island is right on the money.
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Stop people from legally migrating as they can/will, and teach them to stop reproducing, so we can all carry one with our comforts and not have to work any harder at making it better for the next generation.
I call it situational ethics. We need to make certain sacrifices in order to preserve the future.
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Your logic doesn't seem brutal, it is barbaric in my opinion. I will say I don't completely disagree with everything you said. I am in agreement with completely stopping illegal immigration. Instead of guarding other countries, first guard the US.
I do agree that people should first try to help themselves, and rather that going in and taking over a country, The US/all of the worlds countries ought to help educate and empower people sufficiently so that they understand that there is no point in living without freedom to live on their terms (I'm speaking in relative terms, and understand the US itself has a long way to go on this premise).
It is not sufficient though to say we have to protect what we have when we've had no problem taking food from the mouths of babies in the past for our benefit. We have more for many (legal and illegal) reasons, and we owe more to the world for those reasons.
I believe the US can help people who are trying to overcome an injust tyrant, like Saddam; the problem is that we usually falter when we promise to help (as in at the end of Afghanistan's war against the Soviets, and as Pollux mentioned above, at the end of Gulf War), and so we end up with enormous impossible messes on our hands. M
Well.... I'm glad we agree on something! Yes... the illegal immigration situation is definitely the main problem.
In my opinion, we as a country would be much better off if Saddam were still in power. Iran was/is a far bigger supporter of state sponsered terrorismn. At least with Saddam, there was a somewhat balance of power. Now we have utter kaos and complete uncertainy. I think a large majority of the Iraqi people would now come to the same conclusion.
Saddam was no worse than the house of Saud in the way he ruled. And you don't see us trying to subvert that monarchy. In fact, I find him ten times more transparent and easier to control.
- The Ranger
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