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When Both Are Beginners - 8/16/2008 10:29:31 AM   
zumala


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I know I've been around on CM for a few years, but my husband and I are still probably in the 'newbie' category as far as actual experience goes.  We're committed to each other and we discuss ideas a lot, but there is a decided lack of doing in our relationship.  It took us a while to figure out that we want him to dominate me rather than for us to submit to someone else as a submissive couple.  Now that we know that much, we're not sure how to alter our relationship from 'close marriage as equals' to 'close marriage with hubby being dom'.

Does anyone have any suggestions for how to make this transition?


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RE: When Both Are Beginners - 8/16/2008 10:33:43 AM   
Daddystouch


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It may not be what you're looking for, or it might be just perfect, but take a look at Taken In Hand. It's got tons of well written articles, many of them centering around how to move a marriage from being an equal partnership to a male lead relationship.

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RE: When Both Are Beginners - 8/16/2008 11:03:49 AM   
bebeuu


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My husband and I are about in the same boat as you two....only a little older...lol. It was a little slow for us too at first...but we started going to munches and play parties and we learned a LOT from there. It is so nice to be able to speak with like minded people and to see how they interact with one another! We have been able to practice being a Dom/sub couple in public without actually offending anyone who wouldn't understand. Obviously we can't be this way 24/7 with ums around...but we have been able to use these munches and play parties as an outlet for him to be completely dominant over me...without anyone pointing fingers or thinking I am being abused! We have also been able to freely ask questions and have been helped in the art of bondage...fireplay...etc. Our ums are older now also and we find that we are home alone a lot more than before...so we can be free to be who we really are!


Hubby's thoughts>>>>  In our case, very early on, I had NO interest in BDSM at all.  As my wife's interest increased, we began discussing various interests.  I know it was and sometimes still is,...lol,...but her stopping our conversation / activity and telling me what I should have said / done has helped a lot.  Sometimes lack of interest comes from lack of information or understanding.  Yes, it is the sub teaching the Dom, or the masochist teaching the sadist, but in such a  personal relationship, it will be for the best in the long term.

As each of your understanding becomes greater, you may gain the confidence as we have to play with others.  This may help fill voids for one or both of you as you may not share all interests.

My final thoughts,....communicate and experiment!!





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RE: When Both Are Beginners - 8/16/2008 11:04:56 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

Does anyone have any suggestions for how to make this transition?

There is no "how".  There is no ritual, no process, no magic incantation.

He must lead.  You must follow.


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RE: When Both Are Beginners - 8/16/2008 11:18:53 AM   
zumala


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Thanks to everyone who has had comments to offer thus far.

We have seen Taken In Hand, and my husband didn't really like the overall tone taken that told him that he had to do this or that because he is the man.  I guess it annoyed him.  But even so, there may be bits of advice or ideas here and there that he can use.

bebeuu, since my hubby is home for lunch right now, I read him your post.  He liked what you had to say.  Thank you.


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RE: When Both Are Beginners - 8/16/2008 11:55:41 AM   
azropedntied


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best thing about bdsm and D/s  is there are no hard and fast rules .You both set the tone and dynamic in which  you both wish to live , in short do what  fits  best and you both find pleasure in .Through time and discovery you shall develop into what fits .Attending things like  gatherings and classes will give you both more skills .This is not a matrix  pill choice , your journey can take many splinter  paths  , some may bring you to a  dead end  some may bring you bliss  and every journey is different .
What you now see is a closed door and a no way  we don't want to do this or that , as time  moves on  you may wish to unlock  some doors and peer inside and even partake in things  once thought  as a hard limit . Like when i first started " before the wheel was invented " i would not consider needles , don't make  blood appear , single tails  ooh nooo .All yummy now , who knows how you and he shall evolve or what paths  shall be  taken . enjoy the journey and keep clear  and open communications going .

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RE: When Both Are Beginners - 8/16/2008 1:01:33 PM   
kiwisub12


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Actually, for the actual starting of your submission and his domination, a ritual may well be the way to go. It could be the starting point, a symbol of your submission and his domination. The actual ritual i leave up to your imaginations.

Before the ritual, the two of you need to discuss exactly what your d/s will consist of. For example, i strip off the minute i come in the door, and greet my Sir on my knees for a hug. I call him Sir at all times in private or when with lifestyle friends and acquaintences. I serve him his coffee on a tray. I ask permission before going to the toilet - unless there is the eminant possibility of a BIG mess.(shit happens - lol). I do all the housekeeping and grocery shopping.

These things he requires of me because he can and because they reinforce my submission. He also enjoys the fruits of his labours ie seeing me naked, coffee on demand and so on.
For me when we started these things were awkward and felt a bit like playacting - after 2 1/2 years they are as familiar as reading a book, and an integral part of my life. I can't imagine going back to vanilla. For us the communication that we have is at the heart of our relationship - i have permission to ask or give feedback in all things, in fact he does insist on it.
good luck with your journey.

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RE: When Both Are Beginners - 8/16/2008 2:08:08 PM   
happypervert


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quote:

we're not sure how to alter our relationship from 'close marriage as equals' to 'close marriage with hubby being dom'.


This sounds like a situation where you are waiting for him to take the lead and he's not sure how to do so; if you start telling him what to do, then you could end up being the dom instead of him.

Perhaps taking some initiative yourself to subtly encourage him might work. Some ideas could include sitting at his feet while you watch a DVD, asking permission to suck his cock, addressing him as "Sir", or asking to schedule a "play date" so he'll have a while to think about what he wants to do to you.

The idea is you're trying to change your routine, and you can still be submissive without being passive about it.  Once you start to change the entrenched patterns of behavior, he could catch on and take more initiative too.

Good luck!


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RE: When Both Are Beginners - 8/16/2008 2:11:15 PM   
DomDolf


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Kiwi has a good point with starting with a ritual. Since you currently are equals, decide together on a daily ritual. I believe it should be very submissive, out of the ordinary for you and should be very enjoyable to him. I also think it should be non-sexual. I will explain each reason below.

Decide together- No one can say, "You decide on this"
Daily- Practice makes perfect and if you are looking for a 24/7 situation you don't get breaks
Very submissive- reinforces the submission each time it's done. Meaningful to you and him.
Out of the ordinary- If it is too easy or something you do anyway then the point may not be realized every time it's done.
Enjoyable to him- If he enjoys it, it is submissive and it happens daily he will hopefully want more of the same thoughts and feelings and may be more willing to take it further at a steady pace.
Non-sexual- There are times when sexual things can't happen in real life. It is important to keep it a DAILY ritual without breaks.

Dolf

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RE: When Both Are Beginners - 8/16/2008 3:01:29 PM   
celticlord2112


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Question for you (and hubby):

What do the two of you mean when you say you wish him to "dominate" you?

The word conjures up many things to many people.  What does it conjure up between the two of you?


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RE: When Both Are Beginners - 8/16/2008 3:16:46 PM   
DomDolf


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Good question. I thought that after re-reading my post. I had thought they were looking for 24/7, but it's not stated explicitly.

Dolf

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RE: When Both Are Beginners - 8/16/2008 3:26:40 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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What does that term 'close marriage with hubby being dom' mean to you?  To him?  How will that be different in who you are now?  What do you want to do differently, how do you want to do it differently?  What makes you both happy?

Start with answering those questions and you'll be well on your way.

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RE: When Both Are Beginners - 8/16/2008 4:57:21 PM   
LATEXBABY64


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just live and share in the wonderful knowledge you are unique and rare may the bond last a life time   
oh and ps
stay way from bubble gum logic

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RE: When Both Are Beginners - 8/16/2008 6:14:37 PM   
subbisherri


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I think CelticLord has it wrong and bebeuu and latexbaby have it right. You're in such a perfect place to explore and grow your sexuality together: ask him what he likes, and tell him what you like. Expand your horizons, read, study learn and experiment; keep an open mind. If there are things you want to do that he's reticent about, discuss, debate, trade off and realize that maybe certain things (felching?) just might not happen. Let it draw you together, not force you apart. The fact that you're doing this with someone you love and have a satisfying relationship with puts you so far ahead of the power curve!

ss.

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RE: When Both Are Beginners - 8/16/2008 8:31:36 PM   
pup75


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Hi, Everyone. I'm Zumala's lucky husband. Our thanks to all of you who have taken time to offer your perspectives on this.

Happypervert was exactly correct in his observation about my not knowing where to start. This has been one of my biggest stumbling blocks from the beginning, even before we came here experimenting as a sub-sub couple.

Zumala brought to my attention that she had posted here and said several had asked questions that would help if we answered. Here are my responses to the questions I've seen so far:
(celticlord2112) What do the two of you mean when you say you wish him to "dominate" you?
For me, dominating Zumala would involve developing her as a person. My biggest interests in the kind of play you would see at a party are rope bondage and flogging. I'm interested in getting her to explore activities she's considered taboo due to a socially conservative raising. I would like to help her be more self-confident socially and in her career field.

(LuckyAlbatross) What does that term 'close marriage with hubby being dom' mean to you?  To him?  How will that be different in who you are now?  What do you want to do differently, how do you want to do it differently?  What makes you both happy?
Several of these questions are answered above in some fashion or another. I find it very arousing to see Zumala let go of some of her inhibitions and explore things she's curious about. I also enjoy seeing her study and learn different points of view, looking at other cultures to better understand our own. Zumala is wonderfully intelligent, and that thoughtfulness is a component of her submission that I would like to keep developing.
Thanks to all for the continued advice.

Pup

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RE: When Both Are Beginners - 8/17/2008 6:52:06 AM   
cjan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subbisherri

I think CelticLord has it wrong and bebeuu and latexbaby have it right. You're in such a perfect place to explore and grow your sexuality together: ask him what he likes, and tell him what you like. Expand your horizons, read, study learn and experiment; keep an open mind. If there are things you want to do that he's reticent about, discuss, debate, trade off and realize that maybe certain things (felching?) just might not happen. Let it draw you together, not force you apart. The fact that you're doing this with someone you love and have a satisfying relationship with puts you so far ahead of the power curve!

ss.


Hi,I'm cjan and I endorse this message. *Nyuk nyuk*

I agree that you have an advantage in having the benefit of knowing each other , hopefully, rather well, and having a foundation of trust already eastablished, Having said that, the challenge may be to awaken from and resist the habits and assumptions that inevitably come from a less "conscious" relationship.

I believe that a healthy, viable D/s, bdsm relationship must be based on clear, daily communication that is totally open and honest. Perhaps that is the most important thing to focus on at this point. Also, don't put off play in the fear that mistakes may be made. They probably will be. But then, you have the clear communication and trust foundation to rely on.

Best Wishes to you both.

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RE: When Both Are Beginners - 8/17/2008 12:07:50 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

For me, dominating Zumala would involve developing her as a person. My biggest interests in the kind of play you would see at a party are rope bondage and flogging. I'm interested in getting her to explore activities she's considered taboo due to a socially conservative raising. I would like to help her be more self-confident socially and in her career field.

An excellent answer.

To amplify what I said originally--that you must lead and she must follow--how do you, the dominant, choose to develop her as a person?

How will you build her up?

How will you nurture her strengths?

How will you overcome her weaknesses?

You have stated a goal--and a worthy goal at that.  As the dominant, your role is to chart the course towards that goal.

Everything after that....is learning.  For both of you.


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RE: When Both Are Beginners - 8/17/2008 1:16:05 PM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: zumala
I know I've been around on CM for a few years, but my husband and I are still probably in the 'newbie' category as far as actual experience goes.  We're committed to each other and we discuss ideas a lot, but there is a decided lack of doing in our relationship.  It took us a while to figure out that we want him to dominate me rather than for us to submit to someone else as a submissive couple.  Now that we know that much, we're not sure how to alter our relationship from 'close marriage as equals' to 'close marriage with hubby being dom'.

Does anyone have any suggestions for how to make this transition?

My wife and I just went through this in November.  We'd been married for 11 years, together for 13.  It is very definitely still a "work in progress".  Here's a few of my stray thoughts along the path.
  1. I didn't want to replace my wife with a slave.  I wanted her to have a new role in our relationship without abandoning the old one. She already had a wide variety of roles in regards me... I saw this is just one more.  In that way, if things weren't going well at some point, there was an easy exit strategy (either temporary or permanent as the case may indicate).
  2. I didn't want to torpedo our [very good] marriage.  With a lot on the line, it was important to me to have safety nets and exit strategies.  I was therefor quite careful about spelling out the boundaries of obedience with her... notably when she should not obey me.
  3. Ritual is good.  Especially, I think, for a couple in transition.  We have some very small rituals in our house.  There's a small collaring ritual when she comes home from work.  She tends to sit at my foot rather than on the couch.  I'll typically have her leashed even if we're both sitting on the couch watching a movie, going nowhere.  The ritual helps to remind us of the decision we've made.
  4. It's a partnership.  Look, in the end, an assymetric authority arrangement is as common as dirt.  I have yet to see a marriage where the two partners are actually fully equal in authority.  There are always personality differences which impact what might've been a theoreticaly even split.  So don't get lost in all the "woohoo, aren't I all dark and edgy and kinky" stuff.  He can be your master and you his slave and still be full on partners.  The only thing defined by a D/s or M/s dynamic is how the actual decisions get made.  Everything else is just window dressing and should be adjusted to taste.  In corporate terms, the move you are making is changing the decision making process of your marriage from a concensus process to a consultative one.  That's it.  Anything else you choose to do is not mandated by the D/s relationship, it's driven by something else.
  5. It's lonely at the top.  It's an old cliche and just as true in this situation as any other.  While it is true that it is a partnership, it is also true that the buck stops on his desk and sometimes, that means he's going to just cope with something himself rather than share it with you.  Obviously, due to the tight nature of the team in question, this doesn't come up nearly as often as it might in a corporate or military environment, but it does happen and he should be prepared for it.
  6. It can suck hard being the dom.  This is advice to you, the sub.  Remember that it's not all fun and blowjobs being the dom.  Punishing the woman you love is... well... less than pleasant for me at least.  So are various other aspects.  Don't forget that his job is hard too and it's YOUR job to support him when he is faltering -- the truest kind of service I can think of.

Other than that, it's all about him leading and you following.  All the normal elements of good leadership apply... develop a vision... make sure the vision includes all it's constituents (you in this case).  Sell the vision to all involved (you in this case), revising as necessary until buy-in occurs.  Start moving.  I spent quite a bit of time thinking what exactly I wanted to DO with a slave now that I had one.  For me, this came down to a few categories:  her self-actualization, my self-actualization, our various physical and emotional health issues, her ability to be a good partner for me, my ability to be a good partner for her, small relationship friction things.  I built a list of all that (obviously, an ever-evolving work in progress), prioritized, then started out.  Something that may help your husband... remember that being a dom is just another word for leader, just in this case, in the marriage as opposed to elsewhere.  Any leadership training (corporate management training for instance) that he has had is absolutely apropos.  Personally, some of the best dom advice I've read came from Colin Powell.  Another point that might help the both of you...  There are exactly and only two things required to be a leader:

a)  You need to have somewhere to go.  You cannot lead other people if you're standing still.  That just ends up with a bunch of people milling about aimlessly wondering who's in charge.

b)  You need to get other people to follow you.  Once the leader has set out towards his goal, then if he can convince others to follow along, by definition, he is a leader.  The good news in your case is that (b) is sort of automatically handled because you've agreed to submit.  Of course, if his vision and leadership don't continue to inspire you, then predictably you are going to reconsider your decision to submit at some point.

OK, so there's my random barrel full of thougths... I hope something in that whole mess was maybe helpful.
~Jeff

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RE: When Both Are Beginners - 8/17/2008 1:50:45 PM   
softness


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my advice to anyone taking steps in a new direction ... where ever in life it is ... is to take BABY STEPS

that way if you get lost, dont like where you are headed, whatever ... it is easy to find your way back to where you were happy, and identify the step which didn't work out

wildly sprinting off in a new direction, means you end up somewhere you don't like, with no idea how you got there ... and you end up dismissing the whole journey ... rather than just the last leg of it.

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RE: When Both Are Beginners - 8/17/2008 1:57:25 PM   
Prinsexx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Does anyone have any suggestions for how to make this transition?

There is no "how".  There is no ritual, no process, no magic incantation.

He must lead.  You must follow.


I've just got to agree totally with this. There isn't a simpler yet more explicit way of describing the dynamic that celticlord has said in my opinion.
If only....if only....if only....i could have sensed the remotest possibility of this within the vanilla marriages i have had it owuld have saved a great deal of upheaval, retribution, legal fees and hear-ache. But whilst i was married to men who were in quite different ways socially dominant they were essentially sexually submissive. And worse i feel they were tirggered after both intimact and sex because they found their ability to reconcile social power with their submission.
I think it's wonderful to hear of marriages transtioning into bdsm dynamics. And every single transition has it own timescale. That's where we are all different. perfect timing is perfect but perfect only for the one holding the stpwatch...so i guess that him in you case.



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