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BDSM and Natural Man - 7/30/2004 9:57:52 AM

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** WARNING: Sub-culture philosophy follows. If this offends, close the window now **

House - Car - Office - Car - House. So it goes. Day after day. Again and again. It's a comfortable environment. Air conditioned and air-bagged, carpeted, security monitored, and sanitized for my protection. It is the ideal place for sustaining and protecting an interchangable work-unit. A sexless, conformant cog in a huge, whirling economic machine. It is a very efficient environment for keeping me quiet, and consuming, thus feeding the machine of which I have become a part. The only trouble is, I was never built to live here. I still have the brain, and muscle, and sinew, and will, of a hunter-gather. I am still, unaltered, man. I am built to lift a spear, and hunt the mammoth that could easily kill me with a toss of its head. I am built for a world full of savage, dangerous forces, both within and without, that I must overcome to survive. I am built for a world that still holds mystery, and wonder.

The general perception of BDSM, or D/s, or the little sub-culture to which I belong is that it's "kinky", unnatural, strange. Is it? Could it be that what we do is, in some small way, seeking ourselves again? Are we groping around trying to find the savagery, and power, and mystery, and wonder, and danager, for which we are built, but that is no longer to be found in our lives?

I sail. I sail in big storms. On purpose. The sea is savage, and beautiful, and unaltered since long before we stood upright. The power of 50 knot winds and 40 foot seas can kill you, with complete indifference, unless you assert your will against them. I know why I go out there, though it is probably seen as insane by most.

Maybe a little different perspective on the things that we do.

Take care of yourselves

Leonidas

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< Message edited by Leonidas -- 7/30/2004 11:52:41 AM >

RE: BDSM and Natural Man - 7/30/2004 10:02:24 AM

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quote:

I know why I go out there, though it is probably seen as insane to most.

Test pilots are kinky!

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to Leonidas)

RE: BDSM and Natural Woman, Man or other gender - 7/30/2004 10:12:48 AM

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*note that the title alteration is simply my way of teasing Leonidas

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas
I still have the brain, and muscle, and sinew, and will, of a hunter-gather. I am still, unaltered, man. I am built to lift a spear, and hunt the mammoth that could easily kill me with a toss of its head. I am built for a world full of savage, dangerous forces, both within and without, that I must overcome to survive. I am built for a world that still holds mystery, and wonder.

"I am woman hear me roar" - Helen Redding

I know that feeling Leonidas very well. Sometimes I feel like a tigress in a cage, pacing, ready to pounce.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas
The general perception of BDSM, or D/s, or the little sub-culture to which I belong is that it's "kinky", unnatural, strange. Is it? Could it be that what we do is, in some small way, seeking ourselves again? Are we groping around trying to find the savagery, and power, and mystery, and wonder, and danager, for which we are built, but that is no longer to be found in our lives?

I find D/s the most natural form of relationship. There is always one partner more dominant then the other and it has nothing to do with gender. In the house I grew in, my mom was the boss. My dad let her manage his finances because she did it best. She consulted him on everything, but she had the final word, always.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas
I sail. I sail in big storms. On purpose. The sea is savage, and beautiful, and unaltered since long before we stood upright. The power of 50 knot winds and 40 foot seas can kill you, with complete indifference, unless you assert your will against them. I know why I go out there, though it is probably seen as insane to most.

I have not sailed since I got back to Montreal 10 years ago.

Come whisk me away Leonidas! I beg you ;) (No one else saw that :p)

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Leonidas)

RE: BDSM and Natural Woman, Man or other gender - 7/30/2004 12:20:23 PM

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quote:

*note that the title alteration is simply my way of teasing Leonidas

Yeah, I figured I'd hear from you -- bitch (said with a grin).

quote:

Come whisk me away Leonidas! I beg you ;)

Well, I do happen to have an opening for a naked galley wench. I'm going to guess that you'd take issue with the job description, though.

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: BDSM and Natural Woman, Man or other gender - 7/30/2004 12:24:42 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

quote:

Come whisk me away Leonidas! I beg you ;)

Well, I do happen to have an opening for a naked galley wench. I'm going to guess that you'd take issue with the job description, though.

Well if I provide one for you, can I ride up on deck? ;)

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Leonidas)

RE: BDSM and Natural Man - 7/30/2004 12:46:34 PM

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Hello,

I was a sailor for a while, although I sailed small boats (lazer size, 14' racing boats and hobie cats) in rather brisk weather. I also taught sailing, but it has been years since I was active in it.

I found martial arts to be more interesting to me.

I love sports such as that, largely because there really is a direct correlation between learning and practice and success at what one tries to do. I would probably enjoy golf for the same reason. They are games or sports where one is not competitive against anybody but oneself. It took me a while to realize that I was attempting to block punches with my face, and to start actually using my arms instead, but when I had finally mastered that skill I felt such a profound sense of accomplishment, as well as a definite lessening of facial pain.

Too many people choose the easy path, the air conditioned path, etc., but I prefer to work to be more skilled, more educated, or more experienced tomorrow than I am today.

Just me, could be wrong, etc.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to Leonidas)

RE: BDSM and Natural Man - 7/30/2004 4:18:40 PM

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Leonidas, there are still many places in the world where you could still search for that mystery and get back to nature.
I like living in a world where I can enjoy my life and not have to worry about dying in a wild animals mouth. Trying to be a Dom to Mother Nature is pointless anyway. She will bitch slap you every time.

(in reply to Leonidas)

RE: BDSM and Natural Man - 7/30/2004 6:13:10 PM

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Very true. A VCR is far safer, and more predictable than the sea. Someone once told me though that the true bitch is the one who never risks the slap. Do you think there's any truth to that?

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to Estring)

RE: BDSM and Natural Man - 7/30/2004 11:49:26 PM

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quote:

Very true. A VCR is far safer, and more predictable than the sea. Someone once told me though that the true bitch is the one who never risks the slap. Do you think there's any truth to that?

Well, the issue with face slapping is rotational momentum of the skull.

Or did you mean Mother Nature?

Personally, not striving to excel at whatever one is doing seems to me to be extremely boring and banal.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to Leonidas)

RE: BDSM and Natural Man - 7/31/2004 12:29:10 AM

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quote:

Personally, not striving to excel at whatever one is doing seems to me to be extremely boring and banal.

Very true Sinergy. I like to strive to excel at things that won't kill me though. But that may just be me.

(in reply to Sinergy)

RE: BDSM and Natural Man - 7/31/2004 4:25:45 AM

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quote:

I was a sailor for a while, although I sailed small boats (lazer size, 14' racing boats and hobie cats) in rather brisk weather. I also taught sailing, but it has been years since I was active in it.

It is not the size of the boat, but what you do with it.

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to Sinergy)

RE: BDSM and Natural Man - 7/31/2004 4:26:37 AM

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quote:

I like to strive to excel at things that won't kill me though. But that may just be me.

What does not kill me makes me stronger. Nietzsche

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to Estring)

RE: BDSM and Natural Man - 7/31/2004 6:15:37 AM

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Never been sailing <pout>, but i used to compete in water skiing a long time ago, before it got faddy and too expensive in my part of the world. Most of my competitors were really ambitious and almost fierce in the way they cut the water. I still like to think that i won in the end because i never tried to conquer the waves, and instead rode gently and let them guide me.

I also like to go hiking a lot, and while i do enjoy physical exertion and place a certain (vain) pride in the strength and stamina of my legs, i prefer not to engage in "race to the top" or "see who's toughest" hikes. The reason i go into the mountains is to submerge myself in nature, not harness or conquer it. To me, at least, it is much more rewarding to look around and appreciate the intricacies of different geological and ecological environments, the birdsongs, the vegetation, the insects, the mosses and the lichens..... It is always very, very humbling and awing.

Just my personal approach to outdoorsy activities.

Incidentally, i went rope-tree climbing for the first time today, and highly recommend it to any woods-folk out there.

(in reply to Leonidas)

RE: BDSM and Natural Man - 7/31/2004 7:40:32 AM

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I rock climb, I snowboard, I used to teach motorcycle riding and I roadraced motorcycles for two years (and would do it again in a heartbeat if time and finances allowed), I spent a number of years in the shipyards of the deep south as a welder/pipe-fitter. I could go on, but you get the picture.

I've long heard that I'm 'just an adrenaline junkie' and that could be true. It could also be true that if I were alive when we were hunter-gatherers I would probably have been cast out for wanting to hunt rather than gather.

I really do think it goes back to biochemistry, but I digress.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to Leonidas)

RE: BDSM and Natural Man - 7/31/2004 8:08:46 AM

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Men are made to protect outside the walls of home and tribe ...
Women are made to protect the inside of the walls of home and tribe ...

This is what natural man is. Not the greed fulfilling workforce we've come to know as humanity "evolves". I agree with you, Leonidas. When human history changed form the hunter-gatherer state into the agricultural one, we lost the very thing that made us human. We lost our freedom way back then and have fought to regain it ever since. We've forgotten who we are amongst the shopping sprees and video games, or as we evolved "logically" into a global empire.

As for BDSM being 'kinky' ... there are many things that natural man does that social law considers 'kinky' or 'wrong'. As I said, we have forgotten the freedom of being human. We forget that all humans (male and female) grow hair in unsightly places, and that we have sex in ways that are not the missionary position; and we have forgotten that to be human is to be an animal. For that IS what we are ... animal. There is no monogamy in the animal kingdom other then our species, and our species is the only one that wishes nothing more then to dominate all other things.

What do you think?

(in reply to Leonidas)

RE: BDSM and Natural Man - 7/31/2004 8:13:21 AM

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define... animal... ?

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to panthersclaw)

RE: BDSM and Natural Man - 7/31/2004 8:25:26 AM

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quote:

What does not kill me makes me stronger. Nietzsche

That which does not kill me makes me bitter and cynical. Too Much Coffee Man.

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to darkinshadows)

RE: BDSM and Natural Man - 7/31/2004 8:34:37 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: panthersclaw

and we have forgotten that to be human is to be an animal. For that IS what we are ... animal. There is no monogamy in the animal kingdom other then our species, and our species is the only one that wishes nothing more then to dominate all other things.

What do you think?

There are a number of breeds within the animal kingdom that mate for life (although I agree it is the minority rather than the norm). Swans come to mind.

To the statement 'to be human is to be an animal' I only agree in part. We are, indeed, animals. To me, however, being human is to have an awareness of self, mastery of the animal within, and the ability to pick and choose when we allow the animal to fly.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to panthersclaw)

RE: BDSM and Natural Man - 7/31/2004 8:38:28 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: panthersclaw
There is no monogamy in the animal kingdom other then our species, and our species is the only one that wishes nothing more then to dominate all other things.

Not to be nitpicky, but just for the record, there are many monogamous species, including but not limited to (if my memory serves me right) prairie voles, hyenas, and many many water fowl. Now, recent study has shown that in some of these species a partner may 'cheat' on its otherwise life-long mate, but i don't think that validates such a broad statement that the entire species, or all animal species, and all animal individuals, are not monogamous.

Not endorsing pro or anti monogamy here. I think it is strictly between the people or other beings involved in each relatioship. Just stating the facts as we know them to date.

(in reply to panthersclaw)

RE: BDSM and Natural Man - 7/31/2004 8:52:27 AM

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Further to the notion that many animals mate for life:

Andean Condor: http://www.blueplanetbiomes.org/andean_condor.htm

Southern Bald Eagle: http://www.greenscreen.org/newsletter/deargreenscreen/NHCSeverglades5.html

The Fennec Fox: http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/wildfacts/factfiles/146.shtml

Wolves: http://midwest.fws.gov/agassiz/mammal.html

Masked Owl: http://ozland.angelnco.com/learn/endangeredspecies.html

Simply google "animals that mate for life" and you'll pull up more than you want to read. As has been said, this doesn't necessarily mean there will never been any "infidelity" but these species do bond for life. The primary reason is believed to be that, for reproductive purposes, it is more expedient to have a mate rather than go through the rigors of courtship rituals annually.

And this concludes todays episode of animal kingdom....

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to MizSuz)

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