"Property" vs. "Chattel"

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"Property" vs. "Chattel" - 8/28/2008 6:29:07 AM

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I know that my views on this are different than many here but I thought that I would present my perspective on it and find out if others feel that one can be property...and not be chattel.

I am not Master's slave. I am his submissive. I have been a slave to my ex Master but in my way of thinking slavery is not something one just "is"...it's a condition that one becomes over time within the confines of their relationship. I am sure that there will be a point in my current relationship where I will certainly be Master's slave...but we are not there yet as we've only been together now for about a year.

I am however, "owned" by Master. I am his "property". Now again, I know this is in contradiction to the beliefs of many. Maybe I view it a bit differently because I have spent most of my life as the "Property of" in the motorcycle world. There are many cross-overs between the biker lifestyle and this one. "Property" is common in both, but I have noticed one very significant distinction. Here it would seem that many believe that "property" is identical to "chattel". Like there is an emotional disconnect between owner and property here. I have seen many who view themselves as property here describe it in a way that places them on the same level as their Master's car...or favorite chair. As though they are little more than an object or thing. A thing that can easily be replaced or rejected.

Now I understand that for some people, being viewed that way is the kink in and of itself. That's cool. I personally do not view myself in the same light, even though I do believe myself to be his property. I am not an object that could easily be replaced. "Property" in our world is a position of great honor. It means that I MEAN more to him than anything else in this world. It means that I am NOT disposable or replacable in his eyes. "Property" in our world is a testament to commitment.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

RE: "Property" vs. "Chattel" - 8/28/2008 6:45:06 AM

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I'm not chattel. I'm a long-term investment. Daddy is investing his time, heart and money in the hopes that I will provide him with a lifetime of service and companionship. He has no intention of amusing himself for a while and then trading me in for a newer model.

_____________________________

I'm so addicted to
All the things you do
When you're going down on me
In between the sheets
Or the sound you make
With every breath you take
It's unlike anything
When you're loving me

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: "Property" vs. "Chattel" - 8/28/2008 6:49:01 AM

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quote:

"Property" in our world is a position of great honor. It means that I MEAN more to him than anything else in this world. It means that I am NOT disposable or replacable in his eyes. "Property" in our world is a testament to commitment.

quote:

Like there is an emotional disconnect between owner and property here. I have seen many who view themselves as property here describe it in a way that places them on the same level as their Master's car...or favorite chair. As though they are little more than an object or thing. A thing that can easily be replaced or rejected.

quote:

I would present my perspective on it and find out if others feel that one can be property...and not be chattel.

I've been on both sides of the equation here. I was perfectly happy for a long time as chattel, but then felt the need for more. I'm now property as you describe it and i'm very very happy. So yes i believe you can definately be property without being chattel and vice versa.
On a side note i do believe you can also at times be both, but seperately, depending on the situation / play etc.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: "Property" vs. "Chattel" - 8/28/2008 6:49:19 AM

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This is something that recently became an overwhelming struggle for me,

Its not secret that I adore being meat, being treated with the same status as my Owner's car or favourite chair. I still do, no question of that at all. I am one of those people that finds it a kink in and of itself. I was in a relationship where the status of meat was the central enduring theme. Living meat, to serve in any way asked. Great. Fantastic. Yay.

Problem began to emerge. I started to see that the needs and desires that were being satisfied by being treated like meat, could be satisfied in other ways, by other means. I also found that I was able to give service and not be meat and have open, loving, indulgent affectionate attention without having to earn it or grovel for it. Now I knew these relationships exist, but I never saw them existing for me. I never saw myself being comfortable and blooming in such relationships.

So then I see that in fact I can be happy without being meat ... (though still adoring that treatment, just not wanting to live off it) ... and I find myself increasingly hurt by the "meat treatment" rather than feeling contented by it.

I have come to see this about myself. I don't want to be 24/7/365 meat. I want to be an Owned and controlled woman who serves the person who owns her with love, affection and devotion. I want to be someone who is held in affection, and cherised, who is invested in emotionally. I also want to be pushed (on occassion) to that cold, remote place where I am meat and nothing more to prove for both of us the lengths I am willing to go for our relationship and *mutual* contentment.

I have had to step away from chattel, because it would have destroyed my happiness eventually. I just wish I hadn't had to step away from the relationship as well.

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: "Property" vs. "Chattel" - 8/28/2008 6:51:02 AM

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quote:

He has no intention of amusing himself for a while and then trading me in for a newer model.

Being chattel does not necessarily equate to being traded in for a newer model. It is just a different mind set.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to FlamingRedhead)

RE: "Property" vs. "Chattel" - 8/28/2008 6:52:38 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

He has no intention of amusing himself for a while and then trading me in for a newer model.

Being chattel does not necessarily equate to being traded in for a newer model. It is just a different mind set.

I want to echo this. I have been chattel in several relationships, and my place in the relationship was never at risk from being replaced by a newer model.

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio

(in reply to missturbation)

RE: "Property" vs. "Chattel" - 8/28/2008 6:59:07 AM

RCdc

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I suppose, if I think about it, I was chattel before I moved in with Darcy. Now I am his property - but in our dynamic, property has always been the word used because our relationship was deemed permanent even when I was not 'fixed' to him.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: "Property" vs. "Chattel" - 8/28/2008 7:00:43 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

He has no intention of amusing himself for a while and then trading me in for a newer model.

Being chattel does not necessarily equate to being traded in for a newer model. It is just a different mind set.

I want to echo this. I have been chattel in several relationships, and my place in the relationship was never at risk from being replaced by a newer model.

This must be an awfully big room for such an echo...
Chattel does not mean replacable.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to softness)

RE: "Property" vs. "Chattel" - 8/28/2008 7:01:06 AM

sambamanslilgirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I do believe myself to be his property. I am not an object that could easily be replaced. "Property" in our world is a position of great honor. It means that I MEAN more to him than anything else in this world. It means that I am NOT disposable or replacable in his eyes. "Property" in our world is a testament to commitment.

that's how it is between Daddy and i.

at first i had a hard time hearing Him say i'm His "property" because i didn't understand what He meant by "property" and viewed the word as a negative description of myself. however after discussing this more with Him, i was finally sold (excuse the pun) on the idea of being His "property" - meaning i'm His beloved and cherished daughter ...i will always come first in His life and He'll always be there for me. i'm Daddy's property for life.

_____________________________

...2011 - year of the fabulous rock star life ...and i do it so well...

...announcing Mr. & Mrs. British Petrol ...yeah, marrying into oil is slick business...

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: "Property" vs. "Chattel" - 8/28/2008 7:08:47 AM

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pu

quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I do believe myself to be his property. I am not an object that could easily be replaced. "Property" in our world is a position of great honor. It means that I MEAN more to him than anything else in this world. It means that I am NOT disposable or replacable in his eyes. "Property" in our world is a testament to commitment.

that's how it is between Daddy and i.

at first i had a hard time hearing Him say i'm His "property" because i didn't understand what He meant by "property" and viewed the word as a negative description of myself. however after discussing this more with Him, i was finally sold (excuse the pun) on the idea of being His "property" - meaning i'm His beloved and cherished daughter ...i will always come first in His life and He'll always be there for me. i'm Daddy's property for life.

Just to clarify and help me understand a little better. If you are his daughter are you still his sub /slave? If not can you be property as a daughter? Especially considering you have said elsewhere you are not in a D/s relationship with your daddy.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)

RE: "Property" vs. "Chattel" - 8/28/2008 7:17:06 AM

sambamanslilgirl

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so if someone else is a daughter to Daddy - they cannot be a submissive/slave too? wow i've learned something new today.

just to clarify another thing, i have been in this relationship (long distance as it may be) for 2yrs with Him however we call it "togetherness".

it's totally amazing how words/titles can be so interchangeable these days and still mean the same thing exclusively to us - i'm His property, daughter, submissive, friend, rock star celeb, etc etc etc.

_____________________________

...2011 - year of the fabulous rock star life ...and i do it so well...

...announcing Mr. & Mrs. British Petrol ...yeah, marrying into oil is slick business...

(in reply to missturbation)

RE: "Property" vs. "Chattel" - 8/28/2008 7:20:43 AM

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take a chill pill samba ... missturbation said nothing about sub/slave and daughter being mutually exclusive statements .. you came up with that all on your own

she asked if you considered yourself both, or just a daughter I presume she asked because in the past you have made statements like .. I am not his sub I am his daughter.

~returns your dummy ... it landed by me when you spat it~

< Message edited by softness -- 8/28/2008 7:21:34 AM >

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)

RE: "Property" vs. "Chattel" - 8/28/2008 7:24:59 AM

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The dictionary defines chattel:

chat·tel –noun
1.
Law. a movable article of personal property.

2.
any article of tangible property other than land, buildings, and other things annexed to land.

3.
a slave.

That a particular item of property can be sold, traded or bartered, does not mean it will be. With motorcycle clubs, in some the "Property Of" is the club itself and no individual ownership is recognized and in others, personal ownership is recognized and that includes the bike or the female. But with either, no one would ever consider touching without an invitation.

In my relationship I am both property, slave, chattel but I have no concern about being traded in for another or used for trade or barter. My Master's comment to me regarding sharing, loaning, replacing was "My bike, to a brother, in a life-or-death situation.... maybe. My slave, never."

< Message edited by eyesopened -- 8/28/2008 7:34:54 AM >

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: "Property" vs. "Chattel" - 8/28/2008 7:29:08 AM

sambamanslilgirl

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From: Chicago, IL
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perhaps you and others should take your meds too....

am i one or the other or both?

as i said titles are so interchangeable these days, does it really matter to you, her or anyone else if i consider myself His daughter more than property some days or a little of both on others?

< Message edited by sambamanslilgirl -- 8/28/2008 7:30:45 AM >

_____________________________

...2011 - year of the fabulous rock star life ...and i do it so well...

...announcing Mr. & Mrs. British Petrol ...yeah, marrying into oil is slick business...

(in reply to softness)

RE: "Property" vs. "Chattel" - 8/28/2008 7:31:45 AM

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From another paradigm...

Kneeling on one knee with one hand on the heel on the floor and another on the head, "All that is between my hands I pledge to you; body, mind, and spirit."

Then taking their two hands between his, "I accept thy service and pledge you clothes for your body, food for your belly, and a roof for your head."

She smilingly refers to me as "my liege" and I occasionally introduce her as "My bondswoman and chatelaine of my household."

Yeah, a variation of a very old ritual for swearing fealty. It seems to work for us. H needed a place and I needed a housesitter. In more vanilla terms, she gets room, board, a stipend, and occasional play sessions when she is in a submissive mode. I get someone in the home so it is secure while I travel for work. For clarity, H is a switch that needed a hand getting herself together after the loss of a long term Master. Not a "we have found our ONE" type of relationship but a functional dynamic and of benefit to both of us.

Stefan

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)

RE: "Property" vs. "Chattel" - 8/28/2008 7:36:07 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl

perhaps you and others should take your meds too....

am i one or the other or both?

as i said titles are so interchangeable these days, does it really matter to you, her or anyone else if i consider myself His daughter more than property some days or a little of both on others?

That was a pretty low personal attack to avoid answer a direct and pretty simple question.
Good avoidance though, so kudos for that.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)

RE: "Property" vs. "Chattel" - 8/28/2008 7:37:32 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl

perhaps you and others should take your meds too....

am i one or the other or both?

as i said titles are so interchangeable these days, does it really matter to you, her or anyone else if i consider myself His daughter more than property some days or a little of both on others?

again samba, spitting venom isn't helping any .. just making you look a little prickly

I dont care what label you put on your relationship, you go dance to your own groove, and I hope you enjoy yourself. Someone was curious and asked a question about it, and you began to behave like the very integrity of your relationship was in question.

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)

RE: "Property" vs. "Chattel" - 8/28/2008 7:38:18 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
My Master's comment to me regarding sharing, loaning, replacing was "My bike, to a brother, in a life-or-death situation.... maybe. My slave, never."

Seriously awesome.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to eyesopened)

RE: "Property" vs. "Chattel" - 8/28/2008 7:41:27 AM

sambamanslilgirl

Posts: 10926
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From: Chicago, IL
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isn't it always from someone among the "clique" becomes curious and asks questions? besides no one is spouting venom - merely responding to your advice that i should take a chill pill.

my sincerest apologies to the OP and readers of this thread.

_____________________________

...2011 - year of the fabulous rock star life ...and i do it so well...

...announcing Mr. & Mrs. British Petrol ...yeah, marrying into oil is slick business...

(in reply to softness)

RE: "Property" vs. "Chattel" - 8/28/2008 7:46:01 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl
my sincerest apologies to the OP and readers of this thread.

Apology accepted on my part, thank you for showing such humility.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)

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