RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical)

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RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/10/2008 11:02:39 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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~fast reply~

The OP seems to present a subtle, but not so subtle theory that the determining factor for superiority of one or the other gender is somehow wrapped up in sexual expression and the presence, absence, or replacement of particular genitalia. The whole point of equality is that sexual expression and the presence or absence of particular genitalia (or its analog) is a moot or irrelevant basis on which to determine rights, capacity, or superiority. Therefore, I would postulate that the strap-on and/or dildo are convenient tools for either personal sexual expression or for inciting sexual response in another person, but that other than that it is an irrelevant addendum to the suppositions regarding superiority of either gender.

If this is the case, why use a strap-on? Well, because some folks like it. I don't use one, but I use scalpels and needles, which, by their shape, could loosely be considered "phallic" in nature. Pointy things are good for poking into stuff. *shrugs*

Calla Firestorm

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RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/10/2008 11:05:05 AM

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I can't honestly say that I feel that there is anything inherently submissive about taking a strap-on (or dominant about using one), but anything being rammed repeatedly into my ass is going to generate strong sensations of vulnerability and disempowerment. If either the physical act itself, or my reaction to it causes a sensation of empowerment in the woman, then It feels more like something that I am "giving up" to her and less like something that she is doing for me. While I prefer the former, the latter is also acceptable as long as she is enjoying it.

Either way, for some reason, I seem to prefer that said object be attached to her crotch rather than held in the hand. I'm not sure why that is. Is it because of psycho-social, or biological programming?

The world (and myself) may never know.

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RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/10/2008 11:32:42 AM

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thetammyjo, also for double penetration by a single person

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RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/10/2008 12:38:38 PM

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A slightly rambling discourse…

Let’s take it for granted that women who use strap-ons are not harbouring a secret desire to become men, or adopting the penis as a symbol of power in itself. In the context of female dominance, penis power really doesn’t make sense.

One thing about a strap-on, used by a woman on a male submissive, is that it puts him in the role of a passive receiver. So to the extent that being the active partner and taking the initiative is a form of dominance in itself, a strap-on can be an implement of domination. Words like “penetrate” and “invade” have at least a mild connotation of dominance, too. On the other hand, a woman can also reduce a male submissive to passivity by tying him down and “riding” his cock – another word that implies dominance to my mind. Perhaps, then, the strap-on doesn’t add all that much.

But looking a bit deeper, the two situations aren’t quite equivalent. Cock-riding requires the male submissive to be more or less erect, so his passivity isn’t complete. He has to be “with the program” at least to the extent of being sexually aroused. But if he’s bent over waiting to receive a strap-on, it doesn’t really matter if he’s with the program or not, as long as he isn’t about to run away. He can be “taken” in this manner regardless of whether he finds it arousing, frightening, humiliating, uncomfortable, or just plain dull.

From this perspective, the strap-on gives the dominant a way to use her submissive as a sex object without the cooperation of his genitals, and might therefore be seen as empowering. But if she just wants to stick something up his ass and watch him squirm, she can use a hand-held dildo just as easily. Does having the instrument of penetration strapped to her crotch really add anything, from her point of view? I suppose hip-thrusting might be more powerful and in some sense more natural than hand-thrusting, but is this really a big deal? I think the critical question is whether or not the woman can get some physical pleasure out of using the strap-on, presumably because of the pressure against her vulva. If that’s the case, then strap-on play really is a uniquely empowering way for a woman to “take” direct sexual pleasure from a male submissive, without his having to get aroused or do anything other than assume the position (which is, of course, equivalent to what male dominants can do with submissives of either sex). Unfortunately, I’m not equipped to take this line of reasoning to a conclusion, since I have no idea what it feels like to be a woman using a strap-on to penetrate a lucky male submissive. Would any experienced ladies who have actually made it this far care to, er, take a stab?

(Disclaimer: the above is entirely theoretical, since I’ve never experienced strap-on play in any form. But this IS supposed to be a philosophical discussion.)

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RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/10/2008 1:23:20 PM

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love strapon play with my mistress

something incredible sexy her walking in wearing that 10 in strapon i think

with her wearing it we both know where its going and whom am i to say no to her

love when she opens me up with the big strapons because once she is done fucking me with it thats when she usually pulls it out and inserts her fist

for those into strapon play try having your lady fist you after ...much better we think

once she slides in that feeling is simply amazing

can a man be anymore more vulnerable to a woman when shes fucking his ass with a strapon or better yet being fisted by her ?

my mistress knows my ass and prostate well and yes she has trained me well

have fun ..mal

(in reply to Wheldrake)

RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/10/2008 2:50:44 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Untouched1282

...I didn't mean to suggest that it was a conscious decision by a woman to act like a male. I just meant that her decision to act in such a manner carried within it an inherent suggestion that she is acting like a male, if that makes sense...

Indeed it does make sense and I'll agree that the suggestion is there to be picked up on by those who see it. Again, I think its all in the point of view of those who choose to examine this sort of scenario.

< Message edited by E2Sweet -- 9/10/2008 3:19:31 PM >

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RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/10/2008 3:05:43 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Untouched1282

My Mistress uses a strapon to show both her male and female subs she is the Dominant or Alpha female during training sessions. She does not act like a man in anyway while training.

< Message edited by RichieB -- 9/10/2008 3:37:45 PM >

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RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/10/2008 3:13:34 PM

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I have used a strap-on with both women and men and I do think of it as "my cock," an extension of my body. But I am totally happy being female and love the parts I arrived on the planet with. I have considered issues of male supremacy in terms of the act of penetration, both vaginal and anal, but for me I'm not elevating masculinity over femininity by using a phallus. Topping with my cock is just that...I get mental and physical pleasure out of it. I get a different kind of pleasure from oral and manual sex or penetration from another with a strap-on or a real penis. All of the pleasure is collared by whether I'm topping, bottoming, or just fucking in the dynamic.

Toys in general make me think about Donna Haraway's "Cyborg" for anyone interested in feminist theory. Also I think it's important to not get too hung up on Freudian psychology when there is so much more interesting theory about sexuality and queerness.

(in reply to E2Sweet)

RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/10/2008 3:44:07 PM

DieSchadenfreude

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As for Natural superiority (mentioned waaay back in the beginning of this thread), I'd say that lies in the person itself, not in the tool (perhaps somewhat in the culture as well), although the application of said tool can definitely accentuate dominance and superiority.

Plus, there are plenty of men who I have met who are simply inferior no matter how much their 'tool' makes up for (ie. giant dick, pathetic man). *laughs*

Mistress Belle

--------------------------
Es tut so weh, so wohl hernach, wer straubte sich dagegen?
It hurts so badly, so well hereafter, so who would resist against it?

(in reply to Untouched1282)

RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/10/2008 4:03:48 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaMistressa

quote:

ORIGINAL: Untouched1282

I I guess the majority of my issues/questions derive from the fact that the strap-on (dildo) is a literal replacement for the penis, or something "granted" specifically to men.

I've had wine -- again, so I apologize if this reads like a drunken ramble (even though it is). I'm so awkward!

Remember, strap ons can also be used (and are quite a lot of fun) between two women. "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar", and all that.

(Drinking while posting gets me in trouble too sometimes! )

Yes, yes. The double-sided dildo is one thing, but a strap-on is a horse of a different color.

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RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/10/2008 4:08:14 PM

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Foooooooooooolks. You're getting too caught up in the literal. I wasn't suggesting that anyone wants to become a man because she wears a strap-on, nor was I asserting that males were dominate. These are not my beliefs. Heck, I consider myself a feminist (Well, a humanist, really -- but I don't want to get lost in semantics).

I was simply trying to stir up a philosophical discussion taken from a feminist perspective.

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)

RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/10/2008 4:13:22 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Your whole dildo theory revolves around the mistaken idea that a penis affords a man sexual superiority over a woman - it's an old hat idea that was flushed down the toilet in the 1960s which Freud is responsible for popularising (he couldn't have everything right).

Little boys think that having a stick to poke with makes them superior to girls, with their strange invisible bits... unfortunately, many seem to never grow out of the idea.

No, no, no...I wasn't asserting suggesting that physical domination is equal to social superiority. I was suggesting that it COULD BE VIEWED (I did mention to possible views of strap-on use -- and there are most likely a million other viewpoints, but people seem to be neglecting that fact) as a sign of man's natural physical dominance. THat's all.

(in reply to kittinSol)

RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/10/2008 4:20:24 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NotNutsReally

This is a ridiculous thread. Let's not confuse and degrade the attempts by brave women and men to equalize our society with our erotic imaginations and our eroticized conceptions of power.

This is a ridiculous post because you're assuming that I'm judging people. I'm not making any claims here. I'm not trying to label people. I'm trying to stir up conversation, provide a FORUM for thinking. I assume about 99 percent of the people who post on this website would consider their views to be liberal/progressive. Of the women in that group, many of which would probably label their views as feminist in nature. If you've read any feminist literature or articles, you'll know that my questions would be consider mild by many feminist authors/thinkers. (Read Mary Daly lol)

I was simply attempting to ask a qusestion -- after having had some wine. That's all.

Sometimes we liberals are far more myopic than we claim to be. I guess it's my way or the highway on both sides of the street.

(in reply to NotNutsReally)

RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/10/2008 4:47:12 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: E2Sweet

"A male's role in penetrative sex is one that allows him to basically have the point of sexual contact happen outside of his own body. A female, in contrast, experiences penetrative sex within her body. So its in my view that it could easily be argued that the female is afforded superiority in that she is able to have natural sex within her own body."

I could trump your argument by easily saying, like a woman a man can have sex within his own body AND also outside his own body. Woman can't do that. By your argument males are afforded the superiority. Aww hell, everyone knows the cock dominates.

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RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/10/2008 5:22:34 PM

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as some old school feminist suggested, try replacing the word "penetrate" with "envelop" before you insist that phallic object in orifice sex is inherently power imbalanced one way or the other.

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RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/10/2008 5:51:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: yidproquo

as some old school feminist suggested, try replacing the word "penetrate" with "envelop" before you insist that phallic object in orifice sex is inherently power imbalanced one way or the other.

A linguistic argument <3 Thank you.

I completely agree with you. I think some of the critiques of the strap-on are based more in the language being used to describe the action than the actual action itself.

Well played.

:)

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RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/10/2008 6:31:31 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Untouched1282
Foooooooooooolks. You're getting too caught up in the literal. I wasn't suggesting that anyone wants to become a man because she wears a strap-on, nor was I asserting that males were dominate.

In the OP, you said, "I guess the majority of my issues/questions derive from the fact that the strap-on (dildo) is a literal replacement for the penis, or something "granted" specifically to men." You also said, "Fair or unfair, having a penis affords a man natural superiority, at least in the bedroom, over females."

Your question, "With this being the case, how does a feminist view the role of the strap-on?," assumes that feminists are as in awe of the penis as you seem to be. I'm pretty sure that's not the case. I'm rather fond of penises, but I don't see them as a special gift granted to men or as a sign of men's natural superiority in the bedroom. To be honest, I see them as men's biggest weakness. It's pathetically easy to lead most men around by their dicks - you make the little head happy and the rest of them usually follows right along.

With this being the case, I see the strap-on as a fun toy. It has no "role", no penis-related significance beyond its conveniently insertable shape.

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RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/10/2008 7:20:29 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: yesterday

quote:

ORIGINAL: E2Sweet

"A male's role in penetrative sex is one that allows him to basically have the point of sexual contact happen outside of his own body. A female, in contrast, experiences penetrative sex within her body. So its in my view that it could easily be argued that the female is afforded superiority in that she is able to have natural sex within her own body."

I could trump your argument by easily saying, like a woman a man can have sex within his own body AND also outside his own body. Woman can't do that. By your argument males are afforded the superiority. Aww hell, everyone knows the cock dominates.

Well with the strap-on in place, a women can have sex within her own body and outside her own body….and still bring about, and in many places, take away life. So hmm, I would have to say women superiority firmly established by your argument.

(in reply to yesterday)

RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/10/2008 7:24:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Untouched1282
Foooooooooooolks. You're getting too caught up in the literal. I wasn't suggesting that anyone wants to become a man because she wears a strap-on, nor was I asserting that males were dominate.

In the OP, you said, "I guess the majority of my issues/questions derive from the fact that the strap-on (dildo) is a literal replacement for the penis, or something "granted" specifically to men." You also said, "Fair or unfair, having a penis affords a man natural superiority, at least in the bedroom, over females."

Your question, "With this being the case, how does a feminist view the role of the strap-on?," assumes that feminists are as in awe of the penis as you seem to be. I'm pretty sure that's not the case. I'm rather fond of penises, but I don't see them as a special gift granted to men or as a sign of men's natural superiority in the bedroom. To be honest, I see them as men's biggest weakness. It's pathetically easy to lead most men around by their dicks - you make the little head happy and the rest of them usually follows right along.

With this being the case, I see the strap-on as a fun toy. It has no "role", no penis-related significance beyond its conveniently insertable shape.

Natural PHYSICAL superiority in a sexual realm. Again, I was drinking and didn't revisit my post.

I don't see the penis as a special gift -- and I don't think that's what you think I meant, either. The way you phrased it as a "Special gift" makes seem as if I feel Dominants are better than subs, which I definitely don't believe. It's just a role, some would call it a natural. That's all I was trying to say :/

sorta...ha

< Message edited by Untouched1282 -- 9/10/2008 7:27:58 PM >

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RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/10/2008 7:29:57 PM

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I'm done posting for awhile haha Every time I post generic questions I end up getting attacked. haha

(in reply to Untouched1282)

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