RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical)

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RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/11/2008 4:31:07 PM

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Correlation does not equal causation. Do the tides cause the moon, or vice versa?

Genetically, men are more inclined to be attracted to beauty while women are more attracted to strength. As a result, many associate penises with dominance while dominance is really an internal property, not an external one.

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RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/11/2008 5:22:24 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Untouched1282
Fair or unfair, having a penis affords a man natural superiority, at least in the bedroom, over females.

You're kidding, right? Having a penis affords a man natural superiority when it comes to peeing outdoors. In the bedroom it's a fun and interesting body part, not a scepter.

Thank You & Well Said (MmeGigs) ! } likewise to all the other Women of a similar intelligent view.

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RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/11/2008 6:47:32 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued

quote:

With this being the case, how does a feminist view the role of the strap-on?

A strap-on is a sex toy. A cock is a cock. Honestly, I don't think either has anything to do with feminism.

Side note to ShaktiSama: wanna' back me up here? :-)

*bows* If you like, although I have already responded to similar threads in the past.

As a feminist, I view a strap-on as a tool, not as a symbol, or an icon of masculine identity. As Elan so bluntly puts it, it is a peg to fill a hole with. As it so happens, the hole it fills is highly sensitive and, if belonging to a male, has a yummy joy buzzer buried in it that makes my victim explode with the light orgasmic. Yum yum.

I am not a huge fan of Freud and male supremacist rhetoric in general, so the "meaning" of things like strap-ons doesn't interest me much. I don't consider it a "concession of inferiority" to use ANY tool. As a member of the species Homo sapiens, I am by definition a tool-maker and a tool-user; I use a knife to cut things rather than my fingernails, I use a hammer to pound in nails rather than my forehead, and I use a dildo to penetrate rather than my fingers or fist, 'cause sometimes a tool does the job better.

If I had a penis growing out of my body, I'm sure I would use it for penetrating. I use my teeth for chewing and my hands for petting kittens because those sensations are enjoyable to ME, after all. But just because I don't have a penis growing out of my body doesn't mean I can't enjoy penetrating; after all, I don't have long planks of wood growing out of my body, but I can still enjoy skiing. Some things are just fun, and giving your partner pleasure is one of them.

Honestly, I think the men who view anal penetration as "the ultimate humiliation" or "the ultimate submission" should probably spend more time searching their own souls about their emotional relationship to the Penis, and less time worrying about the Radical Androphobic Feminist interpretation. This is just a case of people projecting their "issues" onto others. Sometimes a rubber schlong is just a rubber schlong.

_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to ElanSubdued)

RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/11/2008 6:52:46 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: spiritd1

As I see it women are superior as a woman can have many orgasms in a row and men can have one and then they have to rest before they can cum again. I ask you who is superior?

ME. I am. Like duh.

Plus, I get to leave my dick in the car when I don't need it.

(in reply to spiritd1)

RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/11/2008 7:14:33 PM

Posts: 1307
Joined: 9/3/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued

quote:

With this being the case, how does a feminist view the role of the strap-on?

A strap-on is a sex toy. A cock is a cock. Honestly, I don't think either has anything to do with feminism.

Side note to ShaktiSama: wanna' back me up here? :-)

*bows* If you like, although I have already responded to similar threads in the past.

As a feminist, I view a strap-on as a tool, not as a symbol, or an icon of masculine identity. As Elan so bluntly puts it, it is a peg to fill a hole with. As it so happens, the hole it fills is highly sensitive and, if belonging to a male, has a yummy joy buzzer buried in it that makes my victim explode with the light orgasmic. Yum yum.

I am not a huge fan of Freud and male supremacist rhetoric in general, so the "meaning" of things like strap-ons doesn't interest me much. I don't consider it a "concession of inferiority" to use ANY tool. As a member of the species Homo sapiens, I am by definition a tool-maker and a tool-user; I use a knife to cut things rather than my fingernails, I use a hammer to pound in nails rather than my forehead, and I use a dildo to penetrate rather than my fingers or fist, 'cause sometimes a tool does the job better.

If I had a penis growing out of my body, I'm sure I would use it for penetrating. I use my teeth for chewing and my hands for petting kittens because those sensations are enjoyable to ME, after all. But just because I don't have a penis growing out of my body doesn't mean I can't enjoy penetrating; after all, I don't have long planks of wood growing out of my body, but I can still enjoy skiing. Some things are just fun, and giving your partner pleasure is one of them.

Honestly, I think the men who view anal penetration as "the ultimate humiliation" or "the ultimate submission" should probably spend more time searching their own souls about their emotional relationship to the Penis, and less time worrying about the Radical Androphobic Feminist interpretation. This is just a case of people projecting their "issues" onto others. Sometimes a rubber schlong is just a rubber schlong.

I am sending you a copy of a book I just got from my college's library. You'll positively hate it as much as I do. It's about kink, and fashion, and the like...and...well...

Everything goes back to Freudian mumbo-jumbo involving penises and phalluses. Why do women like wearing corsets? Because it makes thems stand firm and erect, thereby giving them the power of the erect phallus, of course!

Ugh, it was garbage. If it wasn't mine, I would have tossed it. x_x

DV's Fox

(in reply to ShaktiSama)

RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/11/2008 8:13:45 PM

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This sums up the debate nicely.

"Do you take it?" by the Wet Spots

http://www.goodiebag.tv/episodes/do_you_take_it.htm

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RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/11/2008 8:33:56 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: steffie

This sums up the debate nicely.

"Do you take it?" by the Wet Spots

http://www.goodiebag.tv/episodes/do_you_take_it.htm

The waiter kind of looks like Tom Kenny. (voice of Spongebob)

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Prosecutors will be Transgressicuted!

(in reply to steffie)

RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/12/2008 12:22:05 AM

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fast reply

Greetings Everyone,

I am a feminist, I am a Dominant woman, and I enjoy strap-on play.

For me, using my harness does a number of things for me. First of all, I have internal bits for my harness as well as a clitoral vibrator so I do derive a great deal of physical pleasure from penetrating my partner. As well, the very act of 'mounting' him is dominant. Most animals use a form of mounting to signify dominance. This generally does not have a lot to do with gender or sex but is simply a display of dominance. I also greatly enjoy using my harness to hurt and humiliate him. Though I see nothing humiliating about sucking a cock, it's amazing how many heteroflexible men seem to think it is. Finally, having someone cry because what I'm doing 'hurts' also brings great joy to my heart.

These are the reasons I enjoy strap-on play. Though some have a lot to do with dominance a lot have nothing to do with it. My biggest pet peeve about the sex-toy industry is that they seem to be hung up on penises. It has been my experience that a penis is almost always the wrong shape for everything. Vaginally, anally, and orally, a penis shaped dildo/vibrator misses spots and over stimulates others.

Perhaps this bias is more of the problem than any woman having penis envy. It strikes me that most men are more hung up on the 'penis' than are most women. I personally would never want a penis and though I utilize the one my partner came with, it by no means makes me feel subordinate in either our sex life or day to day life.

Wickad

(in reply to JerryFrankster)

RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/12/2008 10:13:15 AM

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original post by spiritd1

As I see it women are superior as a woman can have many orgasms in a row and men can have one and then they have to rest before they can cum again. I ask you who is superior?

But female orgasms are like dog years....One male orgasm is equal to seven female orgasms. So if you or any woman doesn't have multiple orgasms you are inferior by your definition.

< Message edited by yesterday -- 9/12/2008 10:16:27 AM >

(in reply to spiritd1)

RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/12/2008 10:17:51 AM

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Joined: 10/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wickad

I personally would never want a penis and though I utilize the one my partner came with, it by no means makes me feel subordinate in either our sex life or day to day life.

I'd only ever want a penis so I could write my name in the snow. Not so much otherwise.

< Message edited by Lynnxz -- 9/12/2008 10:18:26 AM >

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RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/12/2008 10:21:02 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: yesterday

original post by spiritd1

As I see it women are superior as a woman can have many orgasms in a row and men can have one and then they have to rest before they can cum again. I ask you who is superior?

But female orgasms are like dog years....One male orgasm is equal to seven female orgasms. So if you or any woman doesn't have multiple orgasms you are inferior by your definition.

Wrong. The Female orgasm is scientifically proven to be more INTENSE and LONGER than the males.

(in reply to yesterday)

RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/12/2008 12:12:48 PM

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Untouched1282,

quote:

I was attempting to articulate that the penis, a man's natural tool for penetrating another person, forces him to take a natural dominant position when it comes to sex. In adding a strapon, which is usually crafted to resemble a penis (with the extra dingle danglies, too), many of which even squirt a fluid that looks like seaman, the female is taking a role that a man has been forced to adopt naturally.

Many people (myself included) don't see penetrative sex (or sex in general) as an intrinsically dominant or submissive act. Rather, it just is. If a domme wants to penetrate her partner, so be it. While choosing to penetrate may illustrate dominance over a partner (note my use of the word "may"), the actual act of penetration, in my opinion, is fairly neutral. In other words, a domme is no more or less dominant simply because she fucks her partner. Likewise, the fact that a strap-on mimics a penis is coincidental, if not convenient and pragmatic. Yes, I realize there are those who believe there are better tools to fuck with than phallic shaped objects. Let's leave that debate alone for now.

Where I do agree with you is that a penis or penis shaped object is, for many, something thought of when penetration comes up. This is where the analogy stops though. When a domme wears a strap-on, it doesn't necessarily mean she is taking the role of a man. As per my previous post, dommes tend to do what they do because they want to. That's it. There is no Freudian, penis-envy thing going on here. Watching your partner get all happy and giggly is fun. Watching your partner get off is fun. Controlling this experience, for some, is intensely rewarding. And, as many dominas have already pointed out, there are lots of physical and emotional rewards for the person wearing the strap-on and doing the penetrating.

Seriously. I suggest trying the following experiment. The next time the situation presents itself, let a woman fuck you with a strap-on. After empirical sampling, then decide if you think there is anything masculine about a woman wielding a cock. I'll admit, some women probably do get masculine in their approach whereas others remain incredibly feminine. To be honest though, pretty much any time a woman fucks me, the furthest thing from my mind is whether she is taking on a masculine role. I'm far too busy being a "good little slut" to ponder such a notion. :-)

Elan.

(in reply to Untouched1282)

RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/12/2008 12:32:47 PM

subtlebutterfly

Posts: 2230
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From: Not your hood
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Reading this discussion made me feel the need for a TWIX twix twix twix twix twix twix twix twix twix oh why do I not own a twix right now strapons...mm..chocolate...mhm...TWIX

I know this sounds completely random..just couldn't help it, sorry folks, feel free to continue the discussion

(in reply to ElanSubdued)

RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/12/2008 12:39:13 PM

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ShaktiSama,

quote:

*bows*

Whoa. Careful there Shakti. This is *obviously* an intrinsically submissive act. You might want to wave your hand, in princess-like fashion, instead. I mean, You don't want to ruin you reputation and all!

quote:

As a feminist, I view a strap-on as a tool, not as a symbol, or an icon of masculine identity. As Elan so bluntly puts it, it is a peg to fill a hole with. As it so happens, the hole it fills is highly sensitive and, if belonging to a male, has a yummy joy buzzer buried in it that makes my victim explode with the light orgasmic. Yum yum.

I knew you could explain this far better than I. You've delivered far beyond what I'd hoped for.

Who me? Blunt? What ever are you talking about? :-)

quote:

I am not a huge fan of Freud and male supremacist rhetoric in general, so the "meaning" of things like strap-ons doesn't interest me much. I don't consider it a "concession of inferiority" to use ANY tool. As a member of the species Homo sapiens, I am by definition a tool-maker and a tool-user; I use a knife to cut things rather than my fingernails, I use a hammer to pound in nails rather than my forehead, and I use a dildo to penetrate rather than my fingers or fist, 'cause sometimes a tool does the job better.

Cha-ching! Once again I'll take Shakti for the win Jack.

quote:

If I had a penis growing out of my body, I'm sure I would use it for penetrating. I use my teeth for chewing and my hands for petting kittens because those sensations are enjoyable to ME, after all. But just because I don't have a penis growing out of my body doesn't mean I can't enjoy penetrating; after all, I don't have long planks of wood growing out of my body, but I can still enjoy skiing. Some things are just fun, and giving your partner pleasure is one of them.

You do drive your point home rather well.

quote:

Honestly, I think the men who view anal penetration as "the ultimate humiliation" or "the ultimate submission" should probably spend more time searching their own souls about their emotional relationship to the Penis, and less time worrying about the Radical Androphobic Feminist interpretation. This is just a case of people projecting their "issues" onto others. Sometimes a rubber schlong is just a rubber schlong.

Indeed. And sometimes a happy boy is just a happy boy... being poked, prodded, and fucked... and... (*shock*) doing some of the fucking too... as his owner sees fit.

Kinky people really confuse me sometimes. Is it really necessary to turn something as simple as fucking into something terribly complex? Hole. Peg. Happy Domme. Happy boy. I don't see much need for or value in boatloads of analysis, but perhaps that's just me.

Side note: "Radical Androphobic Feminist". Mmmm. Yum. Vocabularygasm. Thanks. :-)

Elan.

(in reply to ShaktiSama)

RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/12/2008 12:43:39 PM

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Racquelle,

quote:

Plus, I get to leave my dick in the car when I don't need it.

The topic is dommes wearing strap-ons and perceived penis envy, not men (submissive or otherwise). Please do try to stay on topic. :-)

Elan.

(in reply to Racquelle)

RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/12/2008 12:48:13 PM

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Lynnxz,

quote:

I'd only ever want a penis so I could write my name in the snow. Not so much otherwise.

You don't need a penis to write your name in the snow. There must be some kind of Jumbo Magic Marker you can use instead. Oh. Right. A penis *is* a Jumbo Magic Marker. I'm clearly very confused today.

Elan.

(in reply to Lynnxz)

RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/12/2008 1:04:42 PM

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MISTRESSKUMA and yesterday,

quote:

spiritd1:
As I see it women are superior as a woman can have many orgasms in a row and men can have one and then they have to rest before they can cum again. I ask you who is superior?

Quoted for context.

quote:

yesterday:
But female orgasms are like dog years... One male orgasm is equal to seven female orgasms. So if you or any woman doesn't have multiple orgasms you are inferior by your definition.

Oh Lordy. I realize the comparison is accidental, but linking women and dogs is an unfortunate choice. Don't get me wrong, I love women, dogs, and puppies, and you probably do too. It's just that the colloquial subtext of such a comparison is usually not courteous.

quote:

MISTRESSKUMA:
Wrong. The Female orgasm is scientifically proven to be more INTENSE and LONGER than the males.

I'm not sure whether the following quote from Wikipedia is credible or not, but it seems to confirm your thoughts:

"A typical woman's orgasm lasts much longer than that of a man. It is preceded by erection of the clitoris and moistening of the opening of the vagina. Some women exhibit a sex flush, a reddening of the skin over much of the body due to increased blood flow to the skin. As a woman nears orgasm, the clitoral glans moves inward under the clitoral hood, and the labia minora (inner lips) become darker. As orgasm becomes imminent, the outer third of the vagina tightens and narrows, while overall the vagina lengthens and dilates and also becomes congested from engorged soft tissue. The uterus then experiences muscular contractions. A woman experiences full orgasm when her uterus, vagina, anus, and pelvic muscles undergo a series of rhythmic contractions. Most women find these contractions very pleasurable. Recently, researchers from the University Medical Center of Groningen, the Netherlands, showed that it is possible to objectively recognize orgasms just by the specific frequencies of these contractions. After orgasm, the clitoris re-emerges from under the clitoral hood, and returns to its normal size, typically within ten minutes."

Poor little clitoris. Hides from sheer fright of the ensuing earthquake. :-)

In my experience, men and women enjoy orgasms equally well so I try to avoid the whole "mine is bigger, better, longer, shorter... than yours" debate.

Elan.

(in reply to MISTRESSKUMA)

RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/12/2008 4:37:29 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Untouched1282
I was not saying that the strap-on is an INTENTIONAL replacement for a penis (except in the cases where certain women walk around all day with one strapped on). I was attempting to articulate that the penis, a man's natural tool for penetrating another person, forces him to take a natural dominant position when it comes to sex. In adding a strapon, which is usually crafted to resemble a penis (with the extra dingle danglies, too), many of which even squirt a fluid that looks like seaman, the female is taking a role that a man has been forced to adopt naturally. That's all I was attempting to say.

People are disagreeing with your basic premise. You talk about "the perceived dominant sexual position" that men are naturally forced into because they have a penis - you're the only one here who appears to have this perception. You say that you've never had sex yet you seem very certain that you know how folks who are having sex are conceptualizing their sexual activity and their genitalia. Folks who've had a fair amount of experience with sex are telling you that things don't work the way you are assuming they do - that they don't believe that there's anything "naturally dominant" or "naturally superior" about a penis or about its role in sex, that men's general advantage in physical size does not translate into sexual dominance, and that sex isn't all about the penis. They're telling you that they disagree that a woman who uses a strap-on is taking on a male role - that's this is not the way it works for them when they are engaging in strap-on play.

You have no experience in this area but you're telling folks who are actually doing this stuff that they just don't get it - that they're not looking at it the right way. Do you think that makes sense?

(in reply to Untouched1282)

RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/12/2008 4:46:43 PM

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Even though it's most likely entirely too late to attempt to save my reputaiton, I thought I'd give it a try hahaha

I'm mostly curious to find out why the strap-on is linked to the D/s lifestyle. What is it about anal penetration, especially initiated by a female, that causes it to be seen as symobol of this lifestyle, even if only done in the bedroom? I can think of numerous reasons why a sub would want to be taken in such a manner (a desire to be controlled, wanted, dominated, etc)! However, I've had a difficult time coming up with many reasons why a Top would find the act compelling, other than to assert their dominance. I mean, it's rare that I've seen a sub talk about their desire to wear a strap-on and penetrate someone so one would assume (I know, I know) there is some sort of dominant quality associated with the act, right? I connected this line of thinking with the anatomical aspect of my initial post (A male has a penis and penetrate another person when they have sex, usually) and then wrapped it up by posing a questions to the feminists of CM.

Sorry

That's all I was trying to say/ask.

Again, I apologize if my post was viewed as demeaning or anything along those lines. I'm just a curious little boy :(

I shall leave the message board, Ma'ams. Thanks again for all of your wonderfu posts, both on this forum and in my mailbox.

(in reply to JerryFrankster)

RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) - 9/12/2008 4:48:15 PM

Posts: 142
Joined: 2/12/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs

You have no experience in this area but you're telling folks who are actually doing this stuff that they just don't get it - that they're not looking at it the right way. Do you think that makes sense?

Yes I do. Because the strap-on is being used by dominants, not subs. Correlation doesn't equal causation but come on now...

(in reply to MmeGigs)

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