RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?!

RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! (Full Version)

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scarlethiney -> RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! (9/21/2008 9:50:53 PM)
(wishing that everyone could just comfortably be themselves) In a perfect world. I also don't think that being submissive robs an individual of the intelligence to discern worthwhile suitors either. I do think there are some individuals who are in fact deluded enough to believe the opposite is true. God knows we've all received messages and/or emails from them. And it's exactly the sheer number of the these people that I feel sure make some of( us /submissives )write profiles that might seem to the few intelligent, sensitive Sir's and Ma'am(s) like pro wrestlers on steroids. What we wouldn't give to be able in every aspect of our lives to be "who we really are", all of us, without fear of rejection, ridicule or prejudice. Like I said, in a perfect world. scarlet

NihilusZero -> RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! (9/21/2008 9:57:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: scarlethiney I also don't think that being submissive robs an individual of the intelligence to discern worthwhile suitors either. I do think there are some individuals who are in fact deluded enough to believe the opposite is true. God knows we've all received messages and/or emails from them. And it's exactly the sheer number of the these people that I feel sure make some of( us /submissives )write profiles that might seem to the few intelligent, sensitive Sir's and Ma'am(s) like pro wrestlers on steroids. stomps foot I will not pay for the inadequacies of others! And I will not pay a lot for this muffler! sigh

scarlethiney -> RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! (9/21/2008 10:13:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero quote: ORIGINAL: scarlethiney I also don't think that being submissive robs an individual of the intelligence to discern worthwhile suitors either. I do think there are some individuals who are in fact deluded enough to believe the opposite is true. God knows we've all received messages and/or emails from them. And it's exactly the sheer number of the these people that I feel sure make some of( us /submissives )write profiles that might seem to the few intelligent, sensitive Sir's and Ma'am(s) like pro wrestlers on steroids. stomps foot I will not pay for the inadequacies of others! And I will not pay a lot for this muffler! sigh Touche'

NihilusZero -> RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! (9/21/2008 10:19:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: scarlethiney Touche' 'Twas meant predominantly in jest, I hope you realize. It has a hint of truth (to me), but was intended to be totally lighthearted (hence the silly inclusion of the old Midas...or was it Meineke?...slogan).

scarlethiney -> RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! (9/21/2008 10:40:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero quote: ORIGINAL: scarlethiney Touche' 'Twas meant predominantly in jest, I hope you realize. It has a hint of truth (to me), but was intended to be totally lighthearted (hence the silly inclusion of the old Midas...or was it Meineke?...slogan). I did as was mine!! I don't think I'm old enough to remember that......................grin at least I'm not admitting that I am!

NihilusZero -> RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! (9/21/2008 10:47:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: scarlethiney I don't think I'm old enough to remember that......................grin at least I'm not admitting that I am! Touché. ;)

SlaveIndigochild -> RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! (9/22/2008 12:09:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MAMandSlave As a therapist, I am always surprised at the number of my colleagues I find participate in this lifestyle. Yes there are quite a few of us..........

ResidentSadist -> RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! (9/22/2008 1:34:14 AM)
[sm=soapbox.gif] <insert 10 page rant here> /gets off soapbox ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Instead of ranting about the matriarchal state our country has entered, I will simply say that Middle Eastern and European women have gained a higher appeal for me as I have grown older.

SeattleBiC4BiF -> RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! (9/22/2008 1:37:13 AM)
From our point of view, it seems that there is still plenty of opportunity to find male or female submissives, but that they are much more self-aware now and realize that it is an actual choice they are making. That is a net positive from where we stand.

lally3 -> RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! (9/22/2008 1:53:36 AM)
havent time to read through everyones post, but i skimmed and it seems to be a mix of yes and no. im a no person. every single girlfriend ive spoken to about this side of me becomes more and more curious and says stuff like 'thats the kinda guy id like to find'. mind you i dont go into all of the bdsm stuff so much, dont want them to think im a total freak! womens lib and bra burning happened ages ago and i think that sexual liberation is more on the up than any of that. personal choices, tastes, orientation is much more the fashion now. in a way its womens lib turned on its arse because we have the right to choose our own way and path. we dont have to follow social acceptability if we dont want to. but not just that. i would say that on the whole 'submissive' women like strong, decisive men. whether they take that further into a D/s relationship is largely down to whether or not their fantasies and sexuality lead them there. maybe what youre friend has found is that the women out there now are stronger more powerful more focused on what they want and how theyre going to get it. we dont settle anymore, if we're not happy we leave.

irvinecouple949 -> RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! (9/25/2008 8:38:24 AM)
Original poster seems to not quite grasp the MDom/femsub dynamic. Acceptance of women in wider variety roles in public life has little or nothing to do with what goes on behind closed doors. How many male subs are doctors and lawyers from 9-5? If anything, loosening up the criteria for 'acceptable' behavior is more likely to let a woman feel more comfortable about exploring this. Someone who is simply agreeable because they've had it beaten into their head that they are supposed to behave like that does not make a good submissive partner long term. Someone who has realized that this is what they want and chooses to act on it, does.

leadership527 -> RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! (9/25/2008 8:46:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit That it would be increadingly harder and harder for someone of my generation to find a female submissive for the kind of male dominated relationship that I wanted in comparision to 20 years ago, because society teaches women more and more that what we want isn't right. I'm curious as to whether or not you find this perception grounded in reality. No, in short. That would only be true if you really didn't have the wherewithal to actually develop a sub. One might argue that 50's society would encourage more prefab submission, but even that I have a great deal of skepticism about. My own assessment is that I could, given the right situation, take somewhere between 50% and 80% of the vanilla women in the world and successfully introduce them to fairly deep levels of submission. In fact, if Carol were to die and I was looking for a new sub, I'd prefer to start with a vanilla woman. So if at least half of them qualify, I can't really justify that as "hard to find".

OttersSwim -> RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! (9/25/2008 8:56:53 AM)
"Wired that way..." Something that my Lady said to me recently that really hit home with me and I wonder if it is not the same with many submissive people be they male or female - we are wired that way. This means for me that I have worked hard to become dominant and aggressive as society encourages me...and really just sucked at it! Having found BDSM and the concept that "being submissive is good" my life makes so much more sense now. So I wonder..while it is true that feminism has certainly empowered women, is that really impacting the number of submissive women out there? I think it makes them harder to find, and perhaps "cultivate" as others have said here. But if they are "wired that way", then they may find their way to D/s anyway. My 2c...

NihilusZero -> RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! (9/25/2008 9:00:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: irvinecouple949 Original poster seems to not quite grasp the MDom/femsub dynamic. Acceptance of women in wider variety roles in public life has little or nothing to do with what goes on behind closed doors. How many male subs are doctors and lawyers from 9-5? If anything, loosening up the criteria for 'acceptable' behavior is more likely to let a woman feel more comfortable about exploring this. Someone who is simply agreeable because they've had it beaten into their head that they are supposed to behave like that does not make a good submissive partner long term. Someone who has realized that this is what they want and chooses to act on it, does. I suspect MadRabbit was less making a statement on the superficial byproducts of the whole feminism thing (job opportunities, voting, etc.) than about the subtle counter-pressures that the movement begat. It seems to be a cultural norm for groups, upon transition from a status of presumed inferiority, to overcompensate (in a groupthink sort of way) in a sideways form of assertion. Consequently, some individuals are prone to adopt views that they are expected to have by said groupthink when, in fact, they may run wildly contrary to how they would normally think.

NihilusZero -> RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! (9/25/2008 9:04:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OttersSwim So I wonder..while it is true that feminism has certainly empowered women, is that really impacting the number of submissive women out there? In a way, yes. Because not everyone understands how to embrace the "empowerment". Some see it as an excuse to be snarky/pissy at their leisure while having an accepted justification. Some see it as a means by which to adopt misandry as a way of 'making it even'. Even the word itself is midleading, because it's never about "power" (which is what some women may mistakenly seem to presume, then thinking they need to display a sense of 'strength' in order to honor it...and this isn't even always a conscious thing). It's about freedom.

persephonee -> RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! (9/25/2008 9:06:28 AM)
Zactly, otter....that is correct. Charisma attracts followers. Dominance attracts submission. Regardless of what a girl is taught by watching her empowered mother growing up or being up to her ears in the gay rights movement all through her early adulthood, if she feels best in a protected and controlled relationship, being led by an honorable person...whatever the gender,thats what she will seek. my opinion of any gender supremacy is that its hogwash...people are people and only an individual can be superior to another and that is only subjective to the one judging it to be so. In any dynamic...there is a leader and a follower...(gosh, that sounds familiar....)

MadRabbit -> RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! (9/25/2008 9:36:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit That it would be increadingly harder and harder for someone of my generation to find a female submissive for the kind of male dominated relationship that I wanted in comparision to 20 years ago, because society teaches women more and more that what we want isn't right. I'm curious as to whether or not you find this perception grounded in reality. No, in short. That would only be true if you really didn't have the wherewithal to actually develop a sub. One might argue that 50's society would encourage more prefab submission, but even that I have a great deal of skepticism about. My own assessment is that I could, given the right situation, take somewhere between 50% and 80% of the vanilla women in the world and successfully introduce them to fairly deep levels of submission. In fact, if Carol were to die and I was looking for a new sub, I'd prefer to start with a vanilla woman. So if at least half of them qualify, I can't really justify that as "hard to find". I agree. This is mostly the reason why I am mostly here for the boards and don't actively search on the Internet anymore for a partner. I'm not actually of the concrete opinion that female submission is going extinct. This was just mostly some musing on the effect social changes have on a type of relationship that is more and more becoming counter-cultural and politically incorrect.

MadRabbit -> RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! (9/25/2008 9:45:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero quote: ORIGINAL: irvinecouple949 Original poster seems to not quite grasp the MDom/femsub dynamic. Acceptance of women in wider variety roles in public life has little or nothing to do with what goes on behind closed doors. How many male subs are doctors and lawyers from 9-5? If anything, loosening up the criteria for 'acceptable' behavior is more likely to let a woman feel more comfortable about exploring this. Someone who is simply agreeable because they've had it beaten into their head that they are supposed to behave like that does not make a good submissive partner long term. Someone who has realized that this is what they want and chooses to act on it, does. I suspect MadRabbit was less making a statement on the superficial byproducts of the whole feminism thing (job opportunities, voting, etc.) than about the subtle counter-pressures that the movement begat. It seems to be a cultural norm for groups, upon transition from a status of presumed inferiority, to overcompensate (in a groupthink sort of way) in a sideways form of assertion. Consequently, some individuals are prone to adopt views that they are expected to have by said groupthink when, in fact, they may run wildly contrary to how they would normally think. Exactly. I am not in anyway whatsoever opposed to the positive benefits that the feminist movement brings. I'm quite proud to live in a world that presents growing opportunities for my daughters if I ever decide to have any. But nothing is without it's blow-backs and downsides and the one the feminist movement brought with it is a forced stereotype. The movement just didn't begin and end with choice but indirectly pushed it's own ideal of what a woman should be on women. Assertive, tough, independent bread earner with a strong career. Someone who doesn't need the help of a man and can juggle a family and career at the same time. Whatever you can do, I can do better. As you put it, overcompensation. These expectations combined with a subtle indirect guilt trip that a submissive and dependent woman is selling out one's gender is what I source as the cause for quite a lot of the baggage I have encountered with girls regarding my kind of relationship. It's not that this ideal is a bad thing to teach woman, but rather that this ideal is right and the other is wrong. One of the greatest hypocrisies, in my eyes, of the feminist movement is they advocate free choice, but excommunicate a woman who doesn't make choices in lines with what their vision of a what a woman should be.

RCdc -> RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! (9/25/2008 10:18:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit Recently, I was having a private discussion with a fellow CM poster I respect very much who has a few decades on me as far as life experience. One of his opinions that really caught my eye was something that I had reflected upon a couple of times in the past. That it would be increadingly harder and harder for someone of my generation to find a female submissive for the kind of male dominated relationship that I wanted in comparision to 20 years ago, because society teaches women more and more that what we want isn't right. Now...don't get me wrong. I am not saying this is a BAD thing or that I wish feminism wasn't around. I would much rather spent more time looking for a partner than live in a society where one group of people were indirectly taught they HAD to do what I wanted, because of their gender. I'm curious as to whether or not you find this perception grounded in reality. I am coming into this a bit late, so if this has been covered... I find that the difficulty tends to come more from those 35 + on the feminist subject - which is why there are so many 'late comers'. As far as I can see, (generalisation alert) people of your generation MR are already few and far between unless they are here for profit. It is getting better - but there is still a higher percentage of 35+ peeps(actually, I would go higher and say 45+) than those in their 20's. And those women in their 20's - on the whole - want people who are older, not the same age. It sucks but that's the truth. I also believe that you are at a difficult point at your location too. Here in the UK, shit is much more relaxed and open. We have a few more years on the US in regards to history and BDSM just doesn't seem to have the stigma attatched to it like it has in the US, from what people post on their experiences here. It also depends on where in the US you are based I would think - that the perception alters. the.dark.

NorthernGent -> RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! (9/25/2008 1:38:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit I'm curious as to whether or not you find this perception grounded in reality. Not. We all submit in one form or another; whether at work, to a partner, to family, to religion or to government. The reason being that we are all capable of cunning and we're all capable of being persuaded. Female submission or any other form of submission is not about to grind to a halt in the near future. For as long as our instincts are as much grounded in fear, glory and pride as they are in mutual aid, then cunning, persuasion and submission will inevitably follow.

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