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RE: "Hard limits" - 9/25/2008 3:53:23 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zakkan

Do you decide what you hard limits are after you experienced them, or you list certain things as hard limits simply because you are apprehensive?

For example, someone who has never experienced knife play before lists it as a hard limit. He does not know anything about knife play, but the word "knife" just scares him off. One day someone ties him down and forces him to experience it, and he finds out that its quite fun.

If your dom/sub suggests that you try out something you listed as a hard limit, but have little or no prior knowledge of, will you let him/her?

Both. Some will never change as they violate my sense of morality and personal ethics. Others are in place because I do not know enough to form any sort of postive opinion. These are ones which after I learn more about and know what it's all about then I'm in a better position to change my way of thinking. Usually once I understand something to my own satisfaction, then these limits quite often disappear.

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RE: "Hard limits" - 9/25/2008 4:00:38 PM

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I dont have limits ...persay. I call them limits, but often i will say give me x amount of money to fix the damage you cause, ill show you Why we do not do.... x... to me.

I do not "limit" my self really, I simply know you do something.. I let you know what will cause me more then undue mental harm, or physical harm, or emotional harm. You arent going to like the person you see, because sub and Dom goes away, and a scared frightend girl fighting for her life comes out.

Besides... Limits ARNT topping from the bottom, they are a way of expressing ones self or experience. My owner should never harm me or put me in harms way, putting me in a situation where I can be arrested is him going against his main word to me. So, Obviously Illeagal things are no nos. If I can advoid being in situations where I near claw my flesh off or otherwise harm myself or others, or have to deal with major issues due to a particular act, OF COURSE im going to take it. Its not controling the situation, its enabling me to serve as best I can. I cant really serve from the hospital or psych ward now can I....

As for the Op Most of my personal limits are from experiences. Most of my No brainer limits, are because they are no brainers.

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RE: "Hard limits" - 9/25/2008 4:06:15 PM

Sandyshores29718

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*fast reply*

I have some hard limits that are just that. HARD. They will not be pushed. I had needle play on my hard limit list for a while, until I really thought about it and then tried needle play. Now its not a hard limit, but something I really really really would not like to do; however, I would do it again, so its not a hard limit. Gags are a hard limit for me, but I have a very good reason. I didnt know they were till I had a gag used on me. The more you play and try things the more you will see what are true hard limits or just things you really do not like doing.

Example, last night I had a belt used on me for the first time in 10years other than being punished as a child...oh how I did NOT like it, but just because I didnt like it doesnt mean its a hard limit. Having a belt used on me is me submitting to his wants not mine.

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RE: "Hard limits" - 9/25/2008 4:19:53 PM

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After reading this thread I am just really, really glad that I am not a dominant trying to figure this stuff out.

The entire purpose of "hard" limits is so that an "s" type can convey the things that they will NOT do. I do have "hard" limits...but I never catergorize them that way. Honestly, once I am in a relationship we never even discuss them because unless we are in agreement on them there is no possibility of a relationship. They are things that I will not do EVER. They are not things that squick me out, they are not things that make me apprehensive, they are not things that I've just not ever tried so I'm afraid of them and we will work into them slowly or when more trust is built. They are things to which I am morally or ethically opposed. Things are things which would damage mentally, spiritually or sometimes physically. They are things that I will not do period. Not today, not tomorrow, not if I live to be 107.....not for you, not for the Pope.....not for Jesus Christ himself.

Anything aside from those things is open for discussion and negotiation, which is why I also don't make a list of "soft" limits either. Because well....if it's really not a limit and I really would do it if the circumstances were right.....well then it's pretty silly to call it a limit.

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RE: "Hard limits" - 9/25/2008 4:26:59 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zakkan

Do you decide what you hard limits are after you experienced them, or you list certain things as hard limits simply because you are apprehensive?

Both

For example, someone who has never experienced knife play before lists it as a hard limit. He does not know anything about knife play, but the word "knife" just scares him off. One day someone ties him down and forces him to experience it, and he finds out that its quite fun.

If someone tied me down and "forced" me to experience something they knew was a hard limit, it would not be fun. At least not for them, once I got loose.

If your dom/sub suggests that you try out something you listed as a hard limit, but have little or no prior knowledge of, will you let him/her?
If it was already a hard limit, then I would suggest they learn about it, before we explore pushing it.

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RE: "Hard limits" - 9/25/2008 4:31:54 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlemisssnarf

gosh - who knows what is a true hard limit until they attempt to break through it - i think a huge amount depends on the trust and dynamic within a relationship.... i know what i THINK mine are.... but have already been proven wrong on some....

i guess some barriers can be pushed through with care and others just get deeper foundations - tis all about the discovery!

One of my hard limits is playing unconsensually with others or harming others. Nothing I plan on breaking through or changing and I don't have to attempt it, to know it's always going to be a hard limit.

I also have a hard limit against "religion play", again something I don't have to push to know I don't want to go there.

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RE: "Hard limits" - 9/25/2008 4:44:23 PM

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My hard limits are those activities i find morally or personally unethical and those i find unhealthy. They wont change and i have no desire to experience them in any way.......my soft limits will shift and change depending on my partners experience level. Once i'm in a relationship that's built on trust my soft limit list goes out the window.... i trust my Dominant to take me wherever He wishes us both to go..but also i trust He'll respect my hard limits.

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RE: "Hard limits" - 9/25/2008 5:18:32 PM

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i have a few hard limits that are there because i have experienced them, and i have a few that are morally wrong for me.

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RE: "Hard limits" - 9/25/2008 7:46:42 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

After reading this thread I am just really, really glad that I am not a dominant trying to figure this stuff out.

The entire purpose of "hard" limits is so that an "s" type can convey the things that they will NOT do. I do have "hard" limits...but I never catergorize them that way. Honestly, once I am in a relationship we never even discuss them because unless we are in agreement on them there is no possibility of a relationship. They are things that I will not do EVER. They are not things that squick me out, they are not things that make me apprehensive, they are not things that I've just not ever tried so I'm afraid of them and we will work into them slowly or when more trust is built. They are things to which I am morally or ethically opposed. Things are things which would damage mentally, spiritually or sometimes physically. They are things that I will not do period. Not today, not tomorrow, not if I live to be 107.....not for you, not for the Pope.....not for Jesus Christ himself.

Anything aside from those things is open for discussion and negotiation, which is why I also don't make a list of "soft" limits either. Because well....if it's really not a limit and I really would do it if the circumstances were right.....well then it's pretty silly to call it a limit.

I still call them limits, but YES!!!! I could not be in a relationship with someone who would consider participating in activities to which I am ethically and morally opposed. There can be no discussion or no consideration for these things. I was, not too long ago, in a relationship with someone who "changed their mind" about one such activity, the relationship ended shortly thereafter.

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RE: "Hard limits" - 9/25/2008 8:39:20 PM

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Yeah, exactly what Erin said

luci

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RE: "Hard limits" - 9/26/2008 3:15:42 AM

pdv99

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Hard limits: Probably 3 for me:
1) Anything involving someone/thing who cannot give "Informed consent"
2) A couple of minor things that would be inadvisable for personal medical reasons
3) Anything which might be "permanent" if it went wrong - i.e fatal or leaving obvious scarring.

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RE: "Hard limits" - 9/26/2008 5:24:51 AM

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About the forced to experience something and turns out you like it scenario.

Even if I did enjoy it, I would end the relationship. Simply because the person who forced it upon me after saying he wouldn't would have proved himself to be a liar and untrustworthy. If he willfully disregarded my limits and his own promise this time, then he would do it again. Who knows what he might do next time?

If you give your word and then deliberately break it, you're a creep and I don't have relationships with such people. Not to mention that informed consent is very important to me ethically and if I didn't consent, you have violated my rights. I don't forgive certain sins.

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RE: "Hard limits" - 9/26/2008 5:54:23 AM

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As a Domme AND as a sub, I have some limits in common. I won't do scat as either a sub or a Domme, if a sub wanted to be Mine but doing scat play with him was a big deal for him ... he wouldn't become My sub! It's not something I consider healthy, so it's a no go zone. As a sub, i gave it serious contemplation at one stage before deciding it was a hard limit. Consequently, i looked for a Master for whom it was also a hard limit.

Also for health reasons, smoking is a hard limit for Me both as Domme and a sub. Overall I don't have a huge list of them, they are things to which I am opposed on the grounds of health, ethics or My morals. I didn't necessarily have to experience them, but I did give them serious thought before deciding whether or not I could go there.

I would not hold with tying anyone down and forcing them to experience a hard limit. That is a major break of trust. However, if a sub who had come to trust Me came to Me and expressed a desire to test themselves by experiencing something previously a hard limit, I would consider it if (a) it didn't contravene any of My limits and (b) after considerable discussion. I would be highly unlikely to include bondage unless that was part of the experience, and would proceed very cautiously and with a lot of checking in with how they were going.

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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RE: "Hard limits" - 9/26/2008 6:20:34 AM

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Computer security is a perfect metaphor for limits, hard, soft, and otherwise; I'd say it has a one-to-one ratio with the concept.

Pick a hard or semi-erect limit, I can probably find a security requirement and solution that matches it. I'd say a friendly comparison of them would be enlightening as to the overall mutable yet firmly required nature of fetish limits.

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RE: "Hard limits" - 9/26/2008 7:18:25 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zakkan

If your dom/sub suggests that you try out something you listed as a hard limit, but have little or no prior knowledge of, will you let him/her?

Me? No. My hard limits are things I do not engage in because I am deeply opposed to them (for practical reasons or due to strong personal taste).

Those that I've not done and I know I won't like, I know I won't like. It's really that simple. I'm self-aware and these things aren't rocket science.

I've, to date, never had there be anything I've taken a moment to think about, to do that self-assessment, where I've gotten the answer inside me that I won't or will like something without it being 100% accurate... be it BDSM, relationship decisions, a new food, a new sex act, zip lining or other recreational activities, a different haircolor or cut, whatever.

New thing: Take a few minutes to *really* think about it and I know, by knowing myself well.

And again, BDSM acts aren't exactly rocket science. Heck, neither are most any decisions in life... I find most people just don't take the time to know themselves or to really assess the new issue/thing and themselves with it.

Also, my hard limits are subject to change due to this self-knowledge. Sometimes I remove a hard limit, other times I add, depending on when and with whom and what is right for me with those things considered. Those on my profile are my absolutes-with-anyones right now, individual relationships have others added.

On that list, the ones I've not done are age/baby, diaper, and direct-scat (such as toilet service) play.

I don't want real children and the idea of having an adult pretend to me, as much as I don't mind in the least if they do it otherwise, is revolting. However, I will play lincoln logs all day with another 30 year old who is just doing so as a relaxed, fun-loving 30 year old. Child and baby play just isn't somewhere that I can comfortably go.

I'm also very particular about bathroom activities... some I am flexible on (urine and blood/menstrual) and some I am not: after 11 years of marriage there is no way I'd let my best friend and lover even stand outside the bathroom door while I'm in the process of defecating; I'm not doing it ON someone else.

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RE: "Hard limits" - 9/26/2008 10:49:02 AM

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My limits are mostly in place due to apprehension.

If my partner wanted to go there, anything's open for discussion, at least, and as long as all involved are consenting adults, it's open for consideration (..I suppose - though I'm sure somebody could come up with exceptions to that general rule.)

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RE: "Hard limits" - 9/26/2008 10:50:21 AM

michaelOfGeorgia

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quote:

If your dom/sub suggests that you try out something you listed as a hard limit, but have little or no prior knowledge of, will you let him/her?

no

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RE: "Hard limits" - 9/26/2008 11:11:23 AM

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Answering without reading any other responses

quote:

ORIGINAL: zakkan

Do you decide what you hard limits are after you experienced them, or you list certain things as hard limits simply because you are apprehensive?

...

If your dom/sub suggests that you try out something you listed as a hard limit, but have little or no prior knowledge of, will you let him/her?

Both. If I've experienced something and it's not something that I ever, EVER want to do again, then it's a hard limit. Likewise, if there's something that I have not experienced, but I know beyond doubt (either from similar experiences or personal history) I will not do, it's a hard limit.

My partner (because there ARE non-BDSM things that are hard limits for me) will have to do more than suggest it. They would have to really talk me into it... like seriously.

Then do it/have it done to them themselves in front of me.

Then, and ONLY then will I even *consider* actually doing it.

And the answer will likely still be 'no'.

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RE: "Hard limits" - 9/26/2008 11:30:01 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

About the forced to experience something and turns out you like it scenario.

Even if I did enjoy it, I would end the relationship. Simply because the person who forced it upon me after saying he wouldn't would have proved himself to be a liar and untrustworthy. If he willfully disregarded my limits and his own promise this time, then he would do it again. Who knows what he might do next time?

Exactly.

It's about as silly as the 'It couldn't have been rape! s/he enjoyed it!' theory.

You have still violated the person.

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RE: "Hard limits" - 9/26/2008 12:17:26 PM

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Using quick reply:
As a Dominant, my hard limits are what I find personally distasteful AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, anything I have not learned to do properly. In this lifestyle, so much of what we do can be fun or can be seriously physically damaging. If I were a sub, I would want to trust that my Master had the training to do what was done to me.

I remember a story on here from a few months ago where something as simple as nipple clamps caused the person to permanently lose any feeling iin their nipples, because the person supposedly in charge did not know there are time limits to cutting off circulation.

Other than that, my only other hard limit is anything that would damage my slave emotionally.

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