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RE: Question on Christian post??? - 12/3/2005 9:14:36 AM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline 		Amaros, that would have been a usful addition to the other thread. My point was that Christians, in fact, have most things exactly backwards. I think it's a fair thing to say and to wonder at.

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RE: Question on Christian post??? - 12/3/2005 9:37:27 AM   
ModeratorEleven


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Status: offline 		Try and explain your point without using broad-stroke insults and your threads won't get pulled.

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RE: Question on Christian post??? - 12/3/2005 9:38:27 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
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From: UK
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Chain, whilst I noted your critisism on the thread that was pulled, it wasn't just a poke,it was an out and out flame intended to provoke - fair enough - but there is a huge difference in airing a point of view and using historical reference as a basis- and a hate campaign against a minority misusing historical fact to shape an argument (are you sure your not a politian?).

Hello Amaros

If I start again - you will see people rolling there eyes...lol. If You require references on reconciling religious belief with ones sexual practice, just do a search - there are a few threads started about BDSM and religion or spirituality. Either that or do a search on my name if you want...lol.

If someone wants to call me a xtian - then I may ask them not to. Not because I am being snarky, I just wouldn't wish to be called it. I don't even use the word christian for myself except as a label that assists others - I prefere that I am a follower of Christ, christian just doesnt do it for me, personal POV and I find it restrictive - then on the other hand, I ask not to be called 'girl' as well, because its not something I recognise myself as so from my point of view, I see it only as another form of respectful politeness. Address a person as they would like within reasonable thoughts, or don't address them at all, it is that simple.

Of course there will always be fundemental sections of christianity - just as there are fundemental evolutionists, or Goreans, or any other section of a minority you wish to name. Being a christian doesnt give anyone more rights than another - but neither does being not a christian give people the right to lump everyone together and claim them in genralistic terms. Being involved in BDSM shouldn't give us the 'right' to laugh at those we call 'vanilla' - but it happens. What I find more saddening is the that it seems that certain threads seem to be fair game. These are ones that knock christianity, or Money Dommes and ProDommes, BBW threads, cyber/online relationships ... and sissy threads. Say you are a pagan, or american, or practice horoscopes even gay and your 'cool'... Be a sissy, or a non-sexual service related slave or a christian and stand back, waiting for the ridicule. We can and do have the ability to make fun of ourselves - but at the expense of our integrity? Of others hurt feelings?
For a self proclaimed 'community' who advocates freedoms of an individual to express and practice that which makes them happy or free in a open and free capacity, we do an awful amount of backbiting.


Do I celebrate christmas as a practicing christian - yes. Do I do so to celebrate christ - yes. Do I do so believing that He was born on the 25th in december? Nope - there is too many facts to prove that is a myth.

Every year, I have a tree and all the trimmings. The tree is a pagan symbol of sexuality, fertility and is representation of 'a false god'. Candles, mistletoe, wreaths, gift giving - even that traditional ham are all pagan. I also am well aware its based in pagan history. Technically it isnt strictly a christian tradition that Christmas became associated with the birth of christ, but a catholic one from Roman times. Its only another evolutionary progress. Things always change - even old Santa wasnt originally dressed in red, thats just the power of advertising! Why do I celebrate it? Because it is a day to focus on the beautiful time of year that celebrates life in the midst of death. It brings people closer and together - it isnt in anyway to me a christian festival - its just christmas.

Without christmas, God still exists. At least to some people.

Peace and Love

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RE: Question on Christian post??? - 12/3/2005 10:02:01 AM   
Amaros


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Status: offline 		Since I became curious and Googled in the middle of that post, I'll start over: Chi-Rho = Christos. Xtian is simply shorthand for Christian, only an insult if you have a chip on your shoulder and are ignorant of Christian history ("Under this sign (Chi-Rho), I will conquer")- i.e., this particular shorthand for Christian is perfectly acceptable, and has no negative associations per se, unlike "slut" or "pervert" or Sodomite", for example - it literally and simply means "Christian".

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08717c.htm

http://www.historyforkids.org/learn/religion/christians/chirho.htm

A Catholic would probobly not give it a second thought, it being a common symbol in Catholocism. Catholics also equate salvation with faith, as opposed to literal belief in that Rabbi Yesua was a literal demi-god, and all the other associated supertitions attached to him - an important doctrinal distinction, IMO. Thus, I suspect it is mainly American Protestants who take any questioning or criticism of Christianity as a personal affront (I've been called a "Christian hater" for even bringing up documented historical fact), but fail to understand that when they dabble in politics, thay are crossing the line; often resorting to appeal to authority when they are on the ropes in an empirical based discussion. Daniel walked into the Lions den, I merely seek to remind individuals who do this, that he was working without a net.

It would seem to make litle difference to a Catholic, as far as I can see: simply a test of faith, which you either have, or don't, and a poor faith that cannot withstand such a puny test, IMO.

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RE: Question on Christian post??? - 12/3/2005 10:42:06 AM   
perverseangelic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang
Xtians is not a term of disparagement. People only reveal their own ignorance if they think it is one. I covered this in the now deleted thread.



I must say that based on its use inthe communities I am a part of, I'd have to disagree with that.

The only ways I've seen it used is to state that christians -aren't- followers of christ. That is, in my experience, it's been used to preserve the sound of christian while negating the christ figure.

While I hear what you're saying, Amaros, this does not seem to be the colloquial understanding of the term "xtian" among non-christian individuals. Perhaps this is how it is used in a Christian setting. I honestly wouldn't know, based on my recent limited experience with Christians. However, among the communities I frequent, it is without fail a term of criticism designed to negate the basis of Christian beliefs.

I'm glad to see there's another option for the term, but I have never seen it used that way. Going back to when I -was- a regular part of a Christian community, I'd like to point out that none of the Christians I know use it as a term of endearment either. In fact, the denomination I used to attend used the chi rho as its symbol (much as the methodists use the flame) even individuals with that background have commented on their dislike of "xtian" as both a play on their religious symbol and an insult to it.


I'm not denying that this term has either be reclaimed or began as a Christian alternative, however this isn't a way I've -ever- run into the term. I was expressing my criticism from the experience I have, which, as I said before is mostly among the neo-pagan community. There, at least with the individuals I am familiar with, it is an insult, pure and simple.

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RE: Question on Christian post??? - 12/3/2005 10:43:38 AM   
onceburned


Posts: 2117
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Amaros
It is true most holidays have pagan origins, and Christianity is a syncretizing religion: the Catholic host ceremony is lifted almost straight out of Mithrism, Easter is co-opted from the fertility festival of the goddess Astarte, etc.


For me, the meaning and power of religious practices and traditions comes from, not their origin, but the role that they have in an individual's life. And also from the role that they have had in the lived out experiences of the millions of people who came before us.

I was disappointed that the other thread was pulled. I hate to think that we were not able to have a calm and reasonable discussion about religion and spirituality. I understand that these are topics of strong emotions for people, so perhaps we need to take extra care before we post our thoughts to make sure we are not being inflammatory.

The connection between spirituality and BDSM has supported a few threads here at Collarme. If I define religion as what I share with other people, and spirituality as my relationhip with God, I see no conflict between spirituality and BDSM. In some ways the submission is similar. My religion, however, has no bearing on BDSM... its not something I would practice in church or bring up when in religious fellowship.

quote:

Everyone is tiptoeing around the fact that there is definite friction between organized religion and and alternative sexual lfestyles: organized religion has felt licence to slander, persecute and even kill, from time to time, those they define as sexually devient throughout history - i.e., there's some bad blood there.


Yes, I agree that much of traditional Christianity (but by no means all of it) is hostile to sexual minorities. The hostility is particularly pronounced by individuals who identify as being traditonal or defenders of tradition. And in the United States, such people are trying to use the power of government to impose their views on everyone else.

I worry that non-religious people mistake these conservatives as representing all of Christians. It certainly is not true. If we consider the matter of homosexuality we see that many evangelical groups, such as Focus on the Family, are actively railing against gays and the 'gay agenda'. But the Episcopal Church has ordained a bishop who is gay, the United Church of Christ (a rather large denomination) has officially adopted a pro-gay affirming stance.and many individual churches have issued similar statements.

Christianity and Christians are a diverse group of people with many different viewpoints. Please do not label or reject us all based upon the annoying statements and actions of our loud-mouthed cousins.

quote:

I've noted a few people in here identifying themselves as Christians in here, so it's perhpas a topic best left alone, although I imagine that given the nature of the organizing principle of this site, many of it's members have experienced persecution from organized religion - this is definitely the case with myself, and I am one of those who harbors some bitterness toward organized religion and it's activists, and that sense of self rightous entitlement with which many Christians online and off tends to set me off when I encounter it.


Yes. I, too, have experienced the self-righteous presumption and judgemental attitudes of some Christians. Its anger-provoking. I post in a forum site for Catholics and have been saddened by the obnoxious statements and holier-than-thou attitudes I have read. It is hard to keep returning to that forum site, yet I do not want to surrender the field to such uber-Christians either. But I do, on a daily basis, encounter the blinkered attitude of those who are positive that God is on their side (and who never worry if they are on God's side.)

quote:

If any Christians in here do have any cogent thoughts on how they reconcile their religious principles with their sexual preferences, I'd be happy to hear them


My religious principles are to love God with all my heart and to love my neighbor as myself. This doesn't cause me any conflict with my sexuality. And it makes me tolerant of the sexuality of others.

My religion (I am Catholic) does pose a problem with matters of sexuality and gender. The Catholic Church officially has positions which are anti-gay, anti-transsexual and oppressive of women. Fortunately for us Catholics, the Church is a very diverse place and official teachings are not always enforced. My experience is that there is about as much diversity in the Catholic Church as outside of it.

When it comes to the Catholic position that homosexuality is "intrinsically disordered", I mentally bracket it. I recognize that is the official position and if asked will say that it is the official position... but the choices that an individual makes is between him and God. I do not feel I am in a position to run someone else's life.

This is the attitude I take when confronted with conflicts between religion and sexuality. And I think most American Catholics take a similar view... certainly with regard to birth control. Although granted there are some very vocal Catholics when it comes to the issue of abortion - although the strident pro-lifers are a minority in the Catholic Church.

<sigh> I do hope we can continue the discussion in a spirit of tolerance. I welcome questions and can guarantee you that I won't be looking down my nose at anyone, nor passing judgement.

< Message edited by onceburned -- 12/3/2005 10:45:32 AM >

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RE: Question on Christian post??? - 12/3/2005 11:18:10 AM   
darkinshadows


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From: UK
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quote:

Since I became curious and Googled in the middle of that post, I'll start over: Chi-Rho = Christos. Xtian is simply shorthand for Christian, only an insult if you have a chip on your shoulder and are ignorant of Christian history ("Under this sign (Chi-Rho), I will conquer")- i.e., this particular shorthand for Christian is perfectly acceptable, and has no negative associations per se, unlike "slut" or "pervert" or Sodomite", for example - it literally and simply means "Christian".


I agree with pa - xtian is used as a negative word. But then I also agree with Amaros because the word isnt meant to be negative - its like the name vanilla - some use it with affection - but it can also be used and is frequently used as a negative association.
But if I ask not to be called it, it is not because I have some chip on my shoulder, it's because it just doesn't fit me. On the opposite thought - I don't find slut offensive, but I am under no delusion that it is used in a negative way by some people which is why I take care when using it.

quote:

It would seem to make litle difference to a Catholic, as far as I can see: simply a test of faith, which you either have, or don't, and a poor faith that cannot withstand such a puny test, IMO.


Could you expand on this comment? Thanks in advance.

Peace and Love

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RE: Question on Christian post??? - 12/3/2005 11:19:48 AM   
Amaros


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quote:

I worry that non-religious people mistake these conservatives as representing all of Christians. It certainly is not true. If we consider the matter of homosexuality we see that many evangelical groups, such as Focus on the Family, are actively railing against gays and the 'gay agenda'. But the Episcopal Church has ordained a bishop who is gay, the United Church of Christ (a rather large denomination) has officially adopted a pro-gay affirming stance.and many individual churches have issued similar statements.


Agreed - the subject onle tends to come up however when one of these conservatives starts spouting - there are a lot of Christians, it would be very hard for anyone to dislike all of them on account of a few - one runs into that problem however when one identifies oneself formally or informally as a member of a group with very specific and public views on certian subjects, organized religions tend to be very "my way or the highway" - you might say, "well, I'm not like that", fine, but the criticism itself might stand, if the subject happens to be public policy.

It's also a problem when one levels these criticisms, there is always somebody who is going to be offended (I'm not like that...) but what happens then is confusion - how is one to identify the slander of conservatives, and differntiate it from the more tolerant attitude of an annonymous member of the flock, if that happens to be the case?

In short, I find the "I'm insulted" defense to be dishonest, particualarly when it's accompanied by veiled or not so veiled insults - "how dare you question my religion you atheist"!

"Atheist" generally taken in context to mean godless heathen commie anti-American faggot terrorist symp.

This is a cconservative tactic, not neccessarily a religious conservative one, and it's very intention is to introduce confusion into the discussion by attacking a generalization (which by convention, is usually a "you know who you are" generalization, by broadening the generalizaiton and dragging innocent bystanders into the fray. In the first term for instance, criticisms of Bush administration policy were often met with accusations of treason.

The purpose here is not to further discussion, but to shut it down, and a highly undemocratic act, particularly by those claiming to be the "real and true supporters of liberty".

Anyway, it typically tends to turn threads into either flame wars or elaborate group apology fests, accomplishing the goal of shutting down whatever cogent discussion got it started, so as a tactic, I usually treat it as false outrage, which it usually is - you know who you are, and if you're not, then you ought to know that too, and not allow yourself to be used in that fashion.

Moving on, I can certainly see how one could find a spiritual component in sex, nothing unusual there, and quite a number ancient religions gave it it's just due - I am more interested in, as you mention, the very public and "official" views of certain spokespersons of organized religion, versus how individuals who happen to belong to these organizations might come to terms with that.

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RE: Question on Christian post??? - 12/3/2005 11:42:24 AM   
Amaros


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quote:

Could you expand on this comment? Thanks in advance.


Quite simply, one either has faith or one doesn't, it isn't something that can be proved or disproved.

Faith can be shaken by many things, if it can be shaken by the observation that there are often bad Apples in the barrel of organized religion, which there are, and always have been, i.e., that the particular vehicle of spirituality that organized religion is is imperfect, a human institution and prone to all the usual varieties of human weakness is enough to cause a crisis in faith, then it is perhaps your faith you ought to be examining.

There are many more profound test of faith than someone commenting on the often alarming excesses of various religious Myrmidons, or questioning the literal veracity of Biblical accounts - faith doesn't require proof, that's why it's called faith.

Did you happen to read "The Grand Inquisitor" which I linked to in a thread about religion a while back? Google it up and read it, there is something about Christianity being a religion of the few, not the many, that I believe may apply - it's not an uncommon observation, that true Christianity is difficult; the elaborate social institutions calling themselves Christian often appear to have no idea what it's actually about, and those who actually try to implement Christianity are marginalized within organized religion - it's the nature of the beast, it's perhaps foremost a social institution jealous of it's authority and prerogotives to which the principles from which it's authority ostesibly derives is often tertiary.

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RE: Question on Christian post??? - 12/3/2005 11:55:15 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Whilst I am aware of the use of Xian as a shorthand form for Christian, I simply will not use it. I'm an old fashion bugger and for me using it, I know some one may be offended, and religion and other folk’s religious beliefs is something I walk an extra mile to avoid. Also i tend to relate Xian along with other shorthand I see such as "UR" (How RU?) or "B4" etc. I do except the use in SMSing someone but I have a tendency to ignore posts with such shortcuts which I see a laziness and in the past I have found are more prevalent in the juvenile sector than with adults. Still I'm just a old bloke and not terribly flexible in some things.

I’m proudly Pagan and here in Aussie roughly half of the Pagans still celebrate the festivals a-la Northern hemispheres whilst the rest celebrate then according to the seasonal changes for the South (each to his or her own). We celebrate the festive season traditionally as Christmas and see it as a time to let go of hurts, bury the hatchet (not always in someone’s head … JK) and a time for giving and receiving gifts. We also see this a time to offer thanks for the blessings received. On a religious basis we celebrate the Summer Solstice (Bit hard celebrating Mid Winter when the noon temp outside is in the high 30’s (Celsius).

I wish you all and yours a safe and happy festive season.


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RE: Question on Christian post??? - 12/3/2005 12:16:43 PM   
luvdragonx


Posts: 388
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		I missed most of the deleted thread, but this brings up an interesting bias that a lot of people seem to have.

Ever notice that a particular group or culture can use negative/demeaning words or slurs to describe themselves, amongst themselves, but the second an 'outsider' utters it, the gloves are off? I've noticed this phenomenon particularly with ethinic slurs. A black person can call himself or other black people certain words - regardless of context - and typically gets away with it. Why? Because when he uses that word to describe another person like him, it still affects/hurts them both. The same with Latino, Irish, Asian, Native American, Italian, etc. (I don't know how it is in other countries, if anyone has an idea, let me know). However, not all black/asian/latino/native american/irish people are comfortable using or hearing those words from anyone.

I think a similar effect is seen with the use of the term 'Xtian". It didn't offend me personally because it's not a belief system I subscribe to. But I did see it as offensive because the one using the term was clearly not part of the group. He had already expressed dismissal of those who do believe, so to use a term that is clearly not mainstream or commonly used came across as a slur.

If dark-angel had used 'Xtian', I wouldn't have thought anything of it because I'd know that she was referring to herself as part of the group she was commenting on - since she has on many occasions offered what she believes.



< Message edited by luvdragonx -- 12/3/2005 12:22:02 PM >

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RE: Question on Christian post??? - 12/3/2005 12:40:06 PM   
onceburned


Posts: 2117
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Amaros
Agreed - the subject onle tends to come up however when one of these conservatives starts spouting - there are a lot of Christians, it would be very hard for anyone to dislike all of them on account of a few - one runs into that problem however when one identifies oneself formally or informally as a member of a group with very specific and public views on certian subjects, organized religions tend to be very "my way or the highway" - you might say, "well, I'm not like that", fine, but the criticism itself might stand, if the subject happens to be public policy.


Ah, but in matters of public policy there are very few positions which can be labelled "Christian" and have it accepted by all. Even among evangelicals, who most people associate with the likes of James Dobson or Pat Robertson, there is a moderate/liberal camp that rejects the leadership of Focus on the Family, the Concerned Women for America etc.. Jimmy Carter is one prominent evangelical who doesn't fit the conservative mold and Jim Wallis is an evangelical pastor who has built an admirable organization called Sojourners.

Of course the conservatives have tried to fool people by defining any one against them as un-Christian. But we shouldn't allow them this victory. As a Christian I can say that many of the Bush administration's policies are immoral - and are good reasons to have rejected Bush last year. The Democrats need to re-claim religion as an organizing base. Why they haven't done so is a mystery to me... and may have cost them the election in 2000 and 2005.

quote:

It's also a problem when one levels these criticisms, there is always somebody who is going to be offended (I'm not like that...) but what happens then is confusion - how is one to identify the slander of conservatives, and differntiate it from the more tolerant attitude of an annonymous member of the flock, if that happens to be the case?

Liberal and moderate Christians need to be more vocal. They have allowed religious conservative activists to represent their political message as "Christian". And this should never have been allowed to take place, without active dissent.

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RE: Question on Christian post??? - 12/3/2005 12:41:14 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: luvdragonx

Ever notice that a particular group or culture can use negative/demeaning words or slurs to describe themselves, amongst themselves, but the second an 'outsider' utters it, the gloves are off? I've noticed this phenomenon particularly with ethinic slurs. A black person can call himself or other black people certain words - regardless of context - and typically gets away with it. Why? Because when he uses that word to describe another person like him, it still affects/hurts them both. The same with Latino, Irish, Asian, Native American, Italian, etc. (I don't know how it is in other countries, if anyone has an idea, let me know). However, not all black/asian/latino/native american/irish people are comfortable using or hearing those words from anyone.


I remember discussing this some time ago with a couple of mates (one Greek bloke and an Italian bloke) We have seen the promos that evening for a comedy sho "Wogs on parade" or something similar, and were talking ablout the use of the term Wogs for the greek community, which is a derogitory term just as "Ding" or "Dago" is regarding the Italians.. The concensus of the opinion was that .. A person of Greek Blood can call the greeks "Wogs" just as an Italian can refer to other Italians as "Dings" or "Dagos" because ther have the right by birth. Funy isn't it that the best jewish jokes come from Jews (usually Rabis), Aboriginal jokes for Aboriginals and Irish jokes from the Irish. At least that is my experience. I believe that this happens as part opf a defence mechanism just as I take the micky out of myself (Whe let others do it when you can beat them to the punch)......

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RE: Question on Christian post??? - 12/3/2005 1:04:29 PM   
anthrosub


Posts: 843
Joined: 6/2/2004
Status: offline 		I don't know if anyone else has had this experience but growing up, I've seen the use of "Xmas" used many times. The first time I saw the word, my mind processed it something like this...

Christmas....Christ-mas...Christ is symbolized by a cross...X looks like a cross (sort of)...hence, Xmas. I figured the same thing was being applied with Xtian. Until reading this thread, I didn't realize there was so much sensitivity surrounding it. To me, it seems a simple convenience like shorthand.

anthrosub

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RE: Question on Christian post??? - 12/3/2005 1:39:01 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		many people alluded to it, and the fact of it's being of greek origin, and it's looking like a saint andrew's cross, to boot. (they didn't start with bdsm necessarily)......

So when you all (It landed here anthro.....)not in specific an answer, I am talking generally, talk about how opressed you are in your christian beliefs; they what leave do you give one such as I in belief? You start out assured you have the one true god...who forgives, and then how you are chastised by the great unwashed masses, and how you are in the minority........so you're pissed off about a X, or a what? Poor you. Are you aware that your christ slaughtered many people in scandinavia, in his name? same in muslims? but you are opressed for this belief.

The masses will win out. I apologize to anyone's god that I have encountered, but not to anyone.

Ron
I forgot to say, Glaedige Jule, christ's Mass is not what it is about. Regardless of preachers words.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 12/3/2005 1:41:05 PM >

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RE: Question on Christian post??? - 12/3/2005 6:19:46 PM   
maybemaybenot


Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline 		For those of you who did not get the opportunity to view the previous post:

The use of the word Xtian, had little to nothing to do with the offense I and others took from some of the OP's words.

He certainly is entitled, in my mind, to use what ever term he choses in reference to Christians.


~mbmbn~

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Profile   Post #: 36
Christian post??? - 12/3/2005 6:36:31 PM   
imtempting


Posts: 1280
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Status: offline 		What exactly does it mean?


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RE: Question on Christian post??? - 12/3/2005 9:54:21 PM   
SwampFox


Posts: 6
Joined: 12/1/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks for all the replys folks. I really didn't expect this many. So far everyone's been pretty civil, so I'm hoping I'm still in good graces with the mods.

quote:

We'd like to hand out public beatings but the admins think that's being *too* harsh.


Hey ModeratorEleven, you'd have people misbehavin' on purpose then.

quote:

I'd love to see a thread on how people view the Christmas celebrations and what other cultures do at this time of the year (if they do anything).....


You should start one then IronBear. I think it would be kind of cool too. I attended a Hindu wedding several years ago and found it to be a very interesting and pleasurable experience.

quote:

Well I've been here since day one of the message boards. So, that helps me a lot. A good friend who is a board member for Black Rose had told me about collarme. I registered at the time because he had. The day I saw the message boards I came over here and been here since. Seen a lot of people come and go. Probably seen the same question at least 50 times over...or questions I should say. Flame wars as well as good friends meeting.

And for the smile...just click on one of them on the message when you are composing it.


Now I know who to call when I need help sub4hire. The smilie thing just won't work for me for some reason though. I think it must be a local thing here with my 'puter.

quote:

smiles actually I am Mistress Hathor and the numbers mean nothing more than the date I created My yahoo profile--but 314 means Missouri, I moved from there 6 years ago---smiles


I'm actually fairly new to to the area, but I've always been kind of a "show me" person anyway. I'm pretty impressed with that arch though. You cann't really appreciate it until you've stood under it and looked up. Simply amazing are the only words I can think of to describe it. I took the tram to the top, but I think it's going to be a one time experience for me (my stomach was in my throat all the way up). The whole dang thing looks like it should just topple over. Truly an amazing engineering feat if I ever saw one.

quote:

That's unfair. I did take one jab at Christians generally


Well you kind of got my dander up too from what I can remember reading. It wasn't so much the religious thing as your attitude when responding to others whose beliefs are different from yours. See your previous quote in this thread from a different post of yours that I came across when searching for the removed one. I found others of yours too. Your favorite word seems to be "idiot" (or an appropriate synonym) when describing others who disagree with you, regardless of whether the topic is religion or something else. Just seemed kind of childish to me.

Actually, this thread has kind of taken a turn to a discussion on religion. And as I stated above, everyone's been pretty civil about the whole thing.

SwampFox


(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Question on Christian post??? - 12/3/2005 9:59:49 PM   
FelinePersuasion


Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline 		On jackass last night there was a guy who dressed up as a devil and had a sign that said keep god out of California, well one guy walking buy got so upset said what the fuck you think you're doing broke the sign in half over his knee shoved and smacked the guy with the signseveral times all the time shouting obsenities and saying get the hell out of my sight.


Shesh lol talk about flying off the handle

(in reply to Amaros)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Question on Christian post??? - 12/3/2005 11:00:43 PM   
ModeratorEleven


Posts: 2007
Joined: 8/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SwampFox

Hey ModeratorEleven, you'd have people misbehavin' on purpose then.

Rest assured, I know how to administer a 'beating' that no one would find pleasurable

XI

_____________________________

This mod goes to eleven.

(in reply to SwampFox)
Profile   Post #: 40
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