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Chicken or Egg - Poseurs, players & passions - 12/4/2005 1:00:16 AM

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In your search for a partner, do you care if they "got into bdsm" because of a whim, or as a means to an end (ie, kinky sex or multiple partners), or to simply find a "community"?

While it is an impossible generalization, I would suggest that (for the most part) the "bdsm community" (or, people "into" sadomasochism who are seeking partners or friendship/community) consists of two groups of people:

1. People who have a need/desire for their kink and feel they were born that way, or have known about it a long time. Or, maybe they didn't, but a "lightbulb" went off in their head at a later date and they realized it. It is hardwired into their sexuality or sensuality and is an unremovable part of their "sexual identity" or "identity" in general. They will not ever "unwire" themselves, even if they stop actively engaging in the acts that they call "bdsm."

or

2. People who came across BDSM and thought it would be an interesting road to explore. They pick the orientation dominant, submissive or switch by going "hmmm. what sounds good. Ok, how about this one, why not." They find the idea of kinky sex or kinky community to be attractive for the wow factor, or to get out of a sexual rut. Or they think it's edgy if they can say they are kinky. Or they think that kinky = easy so there may be more partners available. They could "give up" their new interest in kink if someone they were really into gave them an ultimatum. They could live without ever doing anything kinky and wouldn't feel less fulfilled.

Partners are partners and bring all kinds of things to the table -- whether they were "born" kinky or just took a look at kink and said, "Hey, let's give that a try."

Have you had any experience with fly-by-night kinksters? Do you think many people are this way, or are most here for good?

Akasha

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RE: Chicken or Egg - Poseurs, players & passions - 12/4/2005 1:24:30 AM

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I dont care how they come to be, aslong as they meet the needs that I need.

That rhymes :D

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Chicken or Egg - Poseurs, players & passions - 12/4/2005 3:50:14 AM

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Greetings..~smiles~

Do suppose it can be either or and is just that. I would also have to say..what really defines "kinky"? Anything done or said that isn't missionary position, and verbage that isn't filled with words of love and mutual respect/equalness?

What I mean is..lol..[modedit - please read TOS and remember such activities are not to be discussed] where as having hot wax poured on me does not not equate the same thoughts.

I can say that what brought me to finding a difference in myself was when I was 16, and my boyfriend was 23, and any time he told me to do or not to do something (completely out of any sexual or pre-scene scenerio), and I obeyed him..it gave me a inner sensation of contentment..of being right with myself and what I was meant to do. It didn't feel sexual in nature..just right.

It all just grew from there as more information became available through the years.

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

< Message edited by ModeratorTen -- 12/4/2005 1:06:49 PM >

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Chicken or Egg - Poseurs, players & passions - 12/4/2005 5:14:18 AM

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I think we all have the roads we traveled upon to get to where we are today, therfore judging someone upon the actions in their more naive of days. Some of us get lucky, some others though not so much.

I consider myself lucky that at an early age I was started along my path which began in mentoring with an intelligent, strict female domina then moved on into the world from there. I believe this path gives me the greatest insight into the mind, life, heart of a sub thereby giving me a greater understanding of how to help them in their own paths.

I would say, in my mind, I can't see the difference between not judging prior BDSM experience any more than judging previous sexual experience. The past is the past, so even though I believe that a person should be open, honest 100% with their partner even when it comes to prior sexual history, I never think that intimate personal disclosure should be used against them.

Remember, to many potential subs or slaves what they desire is change through the will power of another. Still no one questions where the canvas or clay came from before it was turned into a wonderful piece of art.

< Message edited by afmvdp -- 12/4/2005 5:17:50 AM >

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RE: Chicken or Egg - Poseurs, players & passions - 12/4/2005 6:27:21 AM

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I came to this lifestyle late in life as a Domme. i always thought i was just a kinky kinda girl,lol,but tried to keep it hidden.

throughout trial and error and the road less traveled, i came to be at the place where i am now.

i have met a few here, in this lifestyle, for the most part, they have been very real people...some shall always remain in my life, to varying degrees.

but there are so many who write in this area....that call themsleves DOM and do not deserve the title...i just truly amazes me at the players o/l in Atl. perhaps i havent met the right ones but just perusing thro profiles, gives me that impression.makes me cringe.and get p/o,lol

i think those that are active in the forums are the ones truly seeking the lifestyle while alot on the other side...fly by night.imo

off to fill the java

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Chicken or Egg - Poseurs, players & passions - 12/4/2005 6:42:04 AM

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I wouldn't divide it into two groups. I think those are just the two endpoints of a continuum.

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RE: Chicken or Egg - Poseurs, players & passions - 12/4/2005 8:14:34 AM

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no matter how they arrived into this lifestyle, to me they have to feel it in their heart and soul but that is just my opinion. some just want the play part of BDSM without the TPE. to me i thrive on the mental aspect of it and everything else just follows naturally.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Chicken or Egg - Poseurs, players & passions - 12/4/2005 11:50:50 AM

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personaly, i do not care how anyone came into this lifestyle as long as they come in with a open mind.Fakes and liers always show themselves in the end so i do not worry.When i got into this lifestyle it was because i was raised from a Dom/sub parents and i thought that is how life was,but whom am i to say you can not discover ones true desires on a dare. Blessed be all...

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RE: Chicken or Egg - Poseurs, players & passions - 12/4/2005 1:06:28 PM

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People arrive here by all sorts of routes.

Some may have that light bulb moment, that sudden epiphany, telling them this is where they belong.

Others may have known much of their lives that this is where they need to be.

Still others may have arrived initially as experimenters, and grew into it.

I think the bottom line is their attitudes toward, and their treatment of, others. If they deal with others with integrity and respect; are accepting of others and their different "kinks"; are willing to learn and in turn help others to learn...then they are, and should be, valued members of this (or translated to life in general) or any other community.

Sadly, there is no shortage of people who do not live up to ideals such as these inside or outside this community. Since this is only a subset of society at large, one may dream of people living by higher standards, but the reality is any attitude that exists in society as a whole, exists here.

As for myself, I've known of my (somewhat) submissive nature, and my feminine side for decades. Despite years of denial, those parts of me would not stay submerged. But until a little over two years ago, I hadn't the slightest idea that the lifestyle (a term I hate using, but that's another topic

) even existed.

Finding out that i was not a lone freak, was one of the most liberating events in my life...perhaps even more liberating than my ex showing me the door.

Sadly, this qualifies me as a johnny-come-lately poseur in the minds of some. Fortunately those people are relatively rare amongst those I have met in person, even though they may be the most memorable. The vast majority I've met have been very accepting and supportive.

I think I'll quit there...I have the feeling I drifted a bit off-topic, and I apologize if I did, but I was on a roll.

Tasha

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"Sex without love is an empty experience. But as empty experiences go, it's one of the better ones."...Woody Allen

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Chicken or Egg - Poseurs, players & passions - 12/4/2005 2:27:35 PM

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I agree with Aakasha in that there are some distinct groups in the scene, and that they have different objectives and needs. I don't want to overgeneralize here, but looking at the friends I have had for many years, the closest ones are those (like me) that have essentially been pervy from birth, and discovered that hey! there's a name for all this, and lots of other folks doing it too!

As a person in the scene Before The Internet, I think the number of folks who are intrigued by what they read and hear has increased, and that the number of thrill seekers v. "sincere" players has increased, too. Does it matter? Not really, as long as they are up front about what they are looking for.

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RE: Chicken or Egg - Poseurs, players & passions - 12/4/2005 2:34:08 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I agree with Aakasha in that there are some distinct groups in the scene, and that they have different objectives and needs. I don't want to overgeneralize here, but looking at the friends I have had for many years, the closest ones are those (like me) that have essentially been pervy from birth, and discovered that hey! there's a name for all this, and lots of other folks doing it too!

As a person in the scene Before The Internet, I think the number of folks who are intrigued by what they read and hear has increased, and that the number of thrill seekers v. "sincere" players has increased, too. Does it matter? Not really, as long as they are up front about what they are looking for.

Right. People have mostly said that however people come "into" bdsm is fine...but what happens when someone "born" with kink is with someone on a "kink pitstop" and once a relationship forms, they say, "You know, I'm really not that into the S&M stuff anymore. It was fun for awhile, but it's not my thing."

That's the problem with it, as I see it. I can't "turn off" my femdom side or "retire it." If I were with a sub and fell head over heels for him only to have him tell me a year into it, "I'm done with that. Let's be vanilla," it would be a real problem.

Akasha

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RE: Chicken or Egg - Poseurs, players & passions - 12/4/2005 3:09:55 PM

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I agree with much of what has been said here, but I do think people evolve over time. What met your needs five years ago, may not meet your needs now. It depends on the circumstances in your life and where you are at in your path. Promising to ALWAYS feel a certain way in a certain situation is an impossibility imo, just as if you promised to always feel hungry at noon.

For me, I consider "poser" to have a negative connotation - a person who maliciously pretends to be something they are not in order to get what they want. "Player" has a similar bad vibe for me, such as someone who plays with other people in a dishonest way in order to meet some need for themself. However I have also been told player could describe anyone who is into kink as "play" - on a purely sexual level without permanent commitments to power exchange (or authority or whatever.) In that situation I don't find anything wrong with that, as long as a person is open abput what they are looking for. I do think it is important to realize that some people THINK they are being honest, just because they don't really know their own heart just yet. When you spend a lot of your life trying to blend in, it can be difficult to know what emotionas and desires are "real" in the long term and not reactionary.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Chicken or Egg - Poseurs, players & passions - 12/4/2005 3:42:33 PM

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How some one got into BDSM doesn't matter to me at all

If i am ever browsing for a Dom i look for someone like me, some one it is part of them -there makeup born in them.They are this way all the time whether they are in an active relationship or not. Part of them that will never be unwired.

i don't wish to be with anyone who is trying this out b/c it sounds fun or interesting such as you have described in #2. IMO i think there is a hellva lot (fly-by-night kinksters) out there. Good for them have fun- enjoy- i have nothing against that or them- but i think they should own up to that fact right off be honest and not misrepresent themselves before they start or get into a relationship.

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A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better than a "Yes" uttered merely to please

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Chicken or Egg - Poseurs, players & passions - 12/4/2005 3:50:30 PM

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Greetings,

I personally don't care how someone found this lifestyle. First and foremost I want them to become educated in the lifestyle and want to live by it. I have met many that struggle with the idea that they must give up total control. I don't mind the occasional play time partner but if one wants to try this fulltime then they must understand that total control belongs to me. May have reservations about their place in this lifestyle and pose as someone that knows the rules of engagement while holding on to their mainstream way of living to appear to be something they aren't. Honesty with yourself is the key to finding sucessful playmates. To honor your word to another is second in my book. I have seen many that decide that if their pursuits of kinkiness aren't met in the time frame they find appealing then they may simply dishonor their word to their potiental/permant Owner's. Ask yourself people if you are truly ready to live this 24/7 before you dive into this lifestyle.

Master Thomas

< Message edited by SirSix72 -- 12/4/2005 3:51:48 PM >

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RE: Chicken or Egg - Poseurs, players & passions - 12/4/2005 6:09:46 PM

GoddessDustyGold

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I also don't really care how one came to the lifestyle, as long as they understand, or sincerely try to understand, where they are with it, and what their goals are. I can find play partners easily all day long. I can't find the boys who are willing to give up the power and turn authority over to Me. And that is why it is hard for Me to find My partner.
Aakasha, you mentioned the example of one who would be all into it, and then say, "okay done now, let's be vanilla". That did, in fact, happen to Me in the mid 90's, after almost 3 years into a relationship that was very important to Me. And that was really hard. I am not going to change. I am who I am.

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(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Chicken or Egg - Poseurs, players & passions - 12/4/2005 8:33:45 PM

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This is an interesting topic. There are many ways to come into this lifestyle. (A term I have no problem using).

My introduction was at the age of 19. It was not SSC and yet do not regret that it happened. It lead me to explore my true nature and desires. While I do not recommend it as an way to discover ones self, it did the job (so to speak) for me. lol

After 30 yrs of study and training, I would never presume to know it all. I continue to learn and often from posts here. I would not judge someone on their lack of experience. My pet peeve is when someone claims to have experience they don't have.

I have had that relationship. Long, involved, and suddenly they decide they prefer the vanilla life. This is difficult. Hard on the heart. One reason I tend to separate my emotions from this lifestyle. But I can no more demand they stay as they were, than they can persuade me to change. Dominance is "hard wired" as AAkasha said. I tried to live vanilla and it was impossible. I am what I am.

Totally agree with Lady Hibiscus. Just be honest. If you are just wanting to play or into kinky sex, say so. There are those who only seek partners in that arena. To say you seek a relationship or ownership, is disrespectful to the rest of us.

Have been on this soapbox long enough. lol Had no idea I had this much to say.

Be Well

Mistress Alicia

< Message edited by MistressYlwa -- 12/4/2005 8:34:31 PM >

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RE: Chicken or Egg - Poseurs, players & passions - 12/4/2005 10:27:47 PM

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I decided a long time ago that we're all wired very differently and this is simply my orientation - expanding the definition beyond lgbt+s. As such, I believe we're born this way and either know it from the start (me) or uncover it along the way. Unfortunately, my spouse was the dabbler who decided it wasn't for her. We played quite a bit when we were sparkin' but I don't think she ever really knew how ingrained it was in me and I never realized it wouldn't grow into something more for her. Actually, it's taken an ironic twist as she's decided that she's at least bisexual, if not lesbian, after 16 years of marriage. Come see the madcap adventures of that incompatible duo - Heteroperv and Lesbonilla!!! Actually, you've missed the last act because that show is closing...

However, I've been asking a related question on another site I've been on for a few years:

Is it better to look for bondage and find love - or look for love and introduce bondage?

And that reminds me of another related question: Is it better to have tied and lost or to have never tied at all?

As for the latter, I can attest that it's better to have tied and lost. As for the former, I plan to look for bondage, get on with my kink, and maybe find love along the way.

(in reply to MistressYlwa)

RE: Chicken or Egg - Poseurs, players & passions - 12/4/2005 11:04:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressYlwa

This is an interesting topic. There are many ways to come into this lifestyle. (A term I have no problem using).

I have had that relationship. Long, involved, and suddenly they decide they prefer the vanilla life. This is difficult. Hard on the heart. One reason I tend to separate my emotions from this lifestyle. But I can no more demand they stay as they were, than they can persuade me to change. Dominance is "hard wired" as AAkasha said. I tried to live vanilla and it was impossible. I am what I am.

Totally agree with Lady Hibiscus. Just be honest. If you are just wanting to play or into kinky sex, say so. There are those who only seek partners in that arena. To say you seek a relationship or ownership, is disrespectful to the rest of us.

Have been on this soapbox long enough. lol Had no idea I had this much to say.

Be Well

Mistress Alicia

MistressYlwa
I was reading thru your post and wanted to say i know where that came from. My former Master and I were together for six years and insisted in on that time frame that motherhood enter the picture. (keeping in mind, i was willing to at same time, this was nothing commanded of me)

But once motherhood came into the picture, he decided to return so to speak to a vanilla life 24/7. Leaving me yearning for my Master. So i found myself trying to live the vanilla life as well with him. There was no marriage so when he decided that my lifestyle was more than what he wanted no more. It was time to part.

Since then, i've been accused a few times of just wanting "kinky sex" because of having to play two parts in my reality world now. Being both mom and dad. I've also been accused of being a switch because of the Dominate life i lead as a single mom. But I believe my profile and journals give that idea too as well.

So though things differ in all our lives, we do try to keep our hearts, minds, bodies, where we are at home with.

I thank you for your post. Its nice to know, both sides of the coin do go thru simular things in their lives.

(in reply to MistressYlwa)

RE: Chicken or Egg - Poseurs, players & passions - 12/5/2005 8:04:20 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: happypervert

I wouldn't divide it into two groups. I think those are just the two endpoints of a continuum.

My sentiments exactly.

- LA

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RE: Chicken or Egg - Poseurs, players & passions - 12/5/2005 9:11:32 AM

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I've never encountered a poseur in the sense of the OP - someone just putting on a label to get laid, just picking an orientation for thrills, etc. I don't think that happnes, ever - it strikes me as ludicruous.

I mean, "Hi, please whip my ass and throat fuck me until I pass out, and oh btw I don't really have a sexuality and intimacy like this - just a lark." ??

I mean, if someone says they like to be tied up and spanked, or they want to put needles through a person's tits - I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess they really do want to be tied up and spanked, or do tit torture, or whatever.

There may be differences in degree, but I don't think that signifies anything beyond general compatability by desired intensity. Psyche and I have an integrated Master/slave, Daddy/daughter, consensual non-consent SM relationship - maybe another couple finds it exciting to tie each other up and play Dominant and submissive once a week. I think both couples are into BDSM, and the difference is in degree.

I have met a lot of liars and fakes in this, but it was always about identity and courage: i.e. here is a fake persona and fake of what I wish I looked like, or here is a fake persona of how I wish I could live my sexuality, but the prospect of actual submission in RL is terrifying. Their sexuality, their interest and hunger for BDSM was not faked, but rather their courage or integrity to live it in RL.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

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