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RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women - 10/3/2008 12:10:00 PM   
LadyEllen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I'm sorry Rule, but to all intents and purposes St Paul and the OT are in the Bible for a reason -

E


loosly stated, the OT was negated for Christians with the birth of Christ.



But then, why include it?

All that is required surely is to establish the human lineage of Jesus and to provide background to make the NT make sense.

But this isnt about the Bible in particular - every thread on that goes the same way. Its about the viability of setting up one's stand on the basis of Christianity when one clearly doesnt demonstrate that which Christianity espouses - and indeed the viability of Christianity itself when there is so much variation in what that is understood to be?

E

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RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women - 10/3/2008 12:10:43 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		holly,

But tell that to the fundamentalists who keep reaching for it to justify positions they can't reconcile with Jesus' teachings.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 10/3/2008 12:11:15 PM >

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RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women - 10/3/2008 12:14:57 PM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

holly,

But tell that to the fundamentalists who keep reaching for it to justify positions they can't reconcile with Jesus' teachings.


they make me want to wack them with a good book (gives new meaning to "bible belt")


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RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women - 10/3/2008 12:17:36 PM   
LadyEllen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


When did you decide that Obama is a Muslim?

Was that before or after he splayed his "Every Sunday" Christianity all over the TV.



It wasnt me who decided anything sorry. I seem to recall the certainty of his being in the enemy camp (not with us, therefore against us) being raised a while back by those seeking to "expose" him.

When that failed, the same tried to "expose" him as a member of a weird and dangerous Christian church. Interestingly, some might regard the church of another candidate in this election as weird and dangerous, but to my knowledge at least that hasnt been raised?

E

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RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women - 10/3/2008 1:25:32 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I'm sorry Rule, but to all intents and purposes St Paul and the OT are in the Bible for a reason -

E


loosly stated, the OT was negated for Christians with the birth of Christ.



But then, why include it?

All that is required surely is to establish the human lineage of Jesus and to provide background to make the NT make sense.

But this isnt about the Bible in particular - every thread on that goes the same way. Its about the viability of setting up one's stand on the basis of Christianity when one clearly doesnt demonstrate that which Christianity espouses - and indeed the viability of Christianity itself when there is so much variation in what that is understood to be?

E


Because Jesus instructed that the law should not be forgotton and that he was here to fulfil them, not negate them.
It's history.  But with the arrival of Jesus, the laws themselves are in a sense 'pointless'.  But that does not mean you should forget them and erase them from life.
 
the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 10/3/2008 1:26:28 PM >

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RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women - 10/3/2008 2:04:13 PM   
LadyEllen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Because Jesus instructed that the law should not be forgotton and that he was here to fulfil them, not negate them.
It's history.  But with the arrival of Jesus, the laws themselves are in a sense 'pointless'.  But that does not mean you should forget them and erase them from life.
 
the.dark.


Then this gives us a problem to decide what "Christian values" might be
- are they those reflected in the NT and the OT need not be heeded any longer?
- are they those reflected in the NT but informed by the OT?
- are they those reflected in the OT but informed by the NT?

My conclusion is that "Christian values" can be taken to include and exclude almost anything one desires - which makes them totally variable and therefore pretty much worthless and the claiming of them as any sort of indication of worthiness for office entirely flawed.

The puzzling thing of course is that Christianity is actually a very simple matter which should not have such complication attached to it. We should all know clearly what "Christian values" actually means, though apparently even those describing themselves as Christian do not.

E

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RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women - 10/3/2008 2:44:27 PM   
Sanity


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Like you're trying to do to Governor Sarah Palin right now.


quote:

When that failed, the same tried to "expose" him as a member of a weird and dangerous Christian church.










< Message edited by Sanity -- 10/3/2008 2:45:16 PM >

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(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women - 10/3/2008 2:46:28 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Like you're trying to do to Governor Sarah Palin right now.


quote:

When that failed, the same tried to "expose" him as a member of a weird and dangerous Christian church.




......to quote Firmhand, what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Or in this case, sauce for the rotweiller with lipstick.

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women - 10/3/2008 2:51:37 PM   
NumberSix


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Status: offline 		most arguments around here are so flawed at their inception that they can easily be reduced to tu quoque.

6

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women - 10/3/2008 2:54:50 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Because Jesus instructed that the law should not be forgotton and that he was here to fulfil them, not negate them.
It's history.  But with the arrival of Jesus, the laws themselves are in a sense 'pointless'.  But that does not mean you should forget them and erase them from life.
 
the.dark.


Then this gives us a problem to decide what "Christian values" might be
- are they those reflected in the NT and the OT need not be heeded any longer?
- are they those reflected in the NT but informed by the OT?
- are they those reflected in the OT but informed by the NT?

My conclusion is that "Christian values" can be taken to include and exclude almost anything one desires - which makes them totally variable and therefore pretty much worthless and the claiming of them as any sort of indication of worthiness for office entirely flawed.

The puzzling thing of course is that Christianity is actually a very simple matter which should not have such complication attached to it. We should all know clearly what "Christian values" actually means, though apparently even those describing themselves as Christian do not.

E


There isn't really a problem persay.  Christianity is a belief in christ. Thats it.  If you proclaim to be a christian then you follow his teachings.  It isn't anything else than that.  Christian values don't exist and is just PR really.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women - 10/3/2008 3:03:07 PM   
Sanity


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Okay, except, when did Governor Palin ever try to paint LadyE up as a part of a dangerous religion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

......to quote Firmhand, what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Or in this case, sauce for the rotweiller with lipstick.


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RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women - 10/3/2008 3:04:36 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Okay, except, when did Governor Palin ever try to paint LadyE up as a part of a dangerous religion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

......to quote Firmhand, what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Or in this case, sauce for the rotweiller with lipstick.



...do we know Palin's views on TG people?

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women - 10/3/2008 3:05:24 PM   
LadyEllen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

There isn't really a problem persay.  Christianity is a belief in christ. Thats it.  If you proclaim to be a christian then you follow his teachings.  It isn't anything else than that.  Christian values don't exist and is just PR really.
 
the.dark.

 
That it is unsubstantiated, (unjustifiable) PR is my opinion.
 
So then, returning to the OP, my conclusion must be that Palin is being dishonest in her position and relying on general ignorance to appeal to people lacking the willingness to apply critical examination, but also she is perfectly entitled to take whatever position she can justify - and since "Christian values" can be anything one wishes them to be, she can adapt or reject any part of them as she sees fit - which could be a rather scary scenario should she acquire power.
 
E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women - 10/3/2008 3:11:35 PM   
RCdc


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Status: offline 		In essence, I completely agree.
There is a huge difference and divide between 'christian values' and the 'values of christ'.
 
the.dark.

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women - 10/3/2008 3:14:55 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Having done a quick Google Phil, it appears the only hits are on two subjects

1) that apparently some transgender woman is taking her off (which aint gonna go down well I'd bet)
2) that the LGBT community see her as a major threat to any claim to equal rights

It doesnt bother me what she might think as Sarah Palin. It concerns me what she might think as VP and potentially P

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women - 10/3/2008 3:18:34 PM   
philosophy


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Status: offline 		....but LE.....as the Deity you have claimed to be (and which i have no doubt you are) if Palin opposes your right to be exactly what you are then she will have, as Sanity asks, painted you as belonging to a dangerous religion.

No doubt, as i think there is an anthromorphic factor in global warming, she thinks the same of me.

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women - 10/3/2008 3:19:55 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NumberSix

most arguments around here are so flawed at their inception that they can easily be reduced to tu quoque.

6


Yes, but does an argument start at its birth or at its inception?

[Maybe when accused of something similar as an argument, we could just say "et tu?"]

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 10/3/2008 3:20:19 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women - 10/3/2008 3:22:14 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Hey - if others think I'm of divine origin (though it would be rude to disagree) then thats a matter for them!

E



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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women - 10/3/2008 3:24:13 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Hey - if others think I'm of divine origin (though it would be rude to disagree) then thats a matter for them!

E




...no proof required

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women - 10/3/2008 3:37:16 PM   
NumberSix


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: NumberSix

most arguments around here are so flawed at their inception that they can easily be reduced to tu quoque.

6


Yes, but does an argument start at its birth or at its inception?

[Maybe when accused of something similar as an argument, we could just say "et tu?"]


Et tu, Quoque?

I have just today met someone, who; having graduated high school, and bypassing the required 'Silas Marner' tortures, thought that narcolepsy was a drug habit, of sorts.

It takes some faith to raise an idiot.

That should about cover the gamut, what say you, Tim?

LOLOLOL. 

Queequeg 

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"You are Number Six.".
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(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 60
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