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RE: We HATES Her - 10/6/2008 6:21:26 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

.. but I believe that mine is better than hers.

And this, my dear, can quickly become the basis of intolerance and dehumanization all by itself.

"Liberals" are suppose to be "tolerant" and "open-minded" about others beliefs. Sadly, I find this to be the exception to many "liberal" minded people rather than the rule.

I suspect that if you were " .. a bigot, a homophobe, a sexist, intolerant, myopic, ideological, ..." when you were a Christian, that, other than your specific targets of hatred, you might not be much different now that you have flipped over to "the dark side".

Firm

You have used a tiny snippet of my quote and taken it out of context, but I forgive you.

I am not liberal. I am a very moderate Independent, and I was raised in a very conservative home and still hold on dearly to many of my conservative traditions and values, but belief that I know the will of God is not one of them. That hardly makes me liberal...it makes me enlightened.

brainiac,

Generally, I have found you to be reasonable and intelligent. Other than this particularly emotional reaction to religious beliefs, I've seen no words of yours that perplex me or cause me to believe anything negative about you.

This distaste of Palin because she is religious though, seems to be an emotional reaction of some sort. Why, or how you choose to mis-interpret her words is beyond my ken.

It has already been pointed out - and explained - that she did not say that she believes that she knows "the will of God". In fact, the specific words showed exactly the opposite: that she hoped (prayed) that the actions of the US in the war were in accordance with God's will.

How could she pray for that, if she already knew God's will?

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to brainiacsub)

RE: We HATES Her - 10/6/2008 6:44:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

I often don't know if you are defending a position or playing devil's advocate.

Sometimes one, sometimes the other, sometimes both.

quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

btw Firm...I have to say that I just haven't figured you out. You are articulate and smart...mostly. I haven't determined whether you are a nutter, who truly believes his own nuttiness, but recognizes that most people can't swallow it, so you wrap the hard nut in something more soft and palatable like cheese, and we are left standing around wondering whether we liked it or not.

thanks ... I think.

I don't think I'm all that complex, and I really have no real agenda other than to occasionally challenge people's beliefs, especially when they are said with such conviction, and with great disgard for others' beliefs.

I have a pretty detailed world view myself, and have explained large parts of it at different times, in different threads, but I find it amusing how many people ignore my plain words, and start throwing labels around that help to "fit me in" their world view.

For example, in this thread, I've said I'm not a conservative, but a classic liberal (with a twist). Ignored.

I've said that I don't particularly like Bush, and that he's done a lot wrong, but that he has gotten a couple of things right.

I'm called a Bush lover.

I don't particularly like McCain (nor Obama) and flirted with voting Democrat this election.

I'm called an ideologue.

I've pointed out months ago that things could go better in Iraq, after Petrious was appointed.

I was called a warmongering neocon.

dunno. Seems like the common denominator of the people who jump to such conclusions are always on the more left side of the political equation.

So one of my favorite rhetorical techniques is to take someone's own words, and simply change the point of view to reflect the hatred and bigotry and blindness that they have already exhibited, but do not see themselves.

Funny thing is ... the person who espouses some sort of hatred and vitrol gets all pissed when I hold up that mirror.

And I usually get a "mod11 missive", while they get a pat on the back.

*shrugs*

I guess the world isn't "fair" after all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

Either way, this has been interesting.

Agreed. Such intellectual and emotional byplay is both entertaining and enlightening.

It's one of my few hobbies.

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to brainiacsub)

RE: We HATES Her - 10/6/2008 6:54:27 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

How wonderful that we now have someone who can explain the meaning of Sarah's words.

You are welcome. Feel free to ask anytime you are confused. I'll 'splain it to ya.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Do you two hang out and hunt moose together?

No. I don't hunt. I got enough of hanging out in the woods with a rifle when I was in the Army.

And where I learned to appreciate the excitment of taking on targets that can shoot back.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

I mean you must have some reference for this amazing ability to understand what her meanings are.

*shrugs* I was raised a Christian, and went through a lot of soul-searching, thinking and research in my younger years.

But anyone of at least average intelligence who has a modicum of understanding of Christianity would understand her comments.

If they weren't ideologically committed to opposing her.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Maybe you should publish a Sarahspeak-to-English translation guide for the majority of us who have no idea what the hell she is saying most of the time.

No thanks. Most average Americans understand her just fine, I think.

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: We HATES Her - 10/6/2008 7:00:07 PM

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

I suspect that if you were " .. a bigot, a homophobe, a sexist, intolerant, myopic, ideological, ..." when you were a Christian, that, other than your specific targets of hatred, you might not be much different now that you have flipped over to "the dark side".

lol... I thought the exact same thing reading her words.

Of course, you know, it's perfectly acceptable to be bigoted, intolerant and hateful to Christians. They're all misguided idiots.

True. They are all misguided idiots. Everyone knows that the Galactic Overlords brought humans to earth 75 million years ago and imprisoned them at active volcanoes, which they then destroyed with H-bombs, thus creating the Thetans, which are really the souls of humans who are trapped in meat bodies.

_____________________________

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(in reply to TreasureKY)

RE: We HATES Her - 10/6/2008 7:27:33 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: xXLithiumXx

quote:

ORIGINAL: variation30

if palin weren't as attractive as she is, she wouldn't be as hated as she is.

Pft.

Thats a shallow reason.

Im sure there are some that hate her because she is attractive...thats okay...but shallow.

I tend to think its because she has so much air between her ears that we could begin solving the energy crisis by trying that method first.

A word like hate is thrown around so much. However, do you know her well enough to hate her? That's my question.

I was told once that you had to love someone alot, to be able to truely hate them, since they are opposite reactions. I wonder if I was the only one ever told that.

_____________________________

bared on Your tomb, I'm a prayer for Your loneliness. And would You ever soon come above unto me. For once upon a time from the binds of Your holiness, I could always find the right slot for Your sacred key.

Nymphetamine - Cradle of Filth

(in reply to xXLithiumXx)

RE: We HATES Her - 10/6/2008 8:06:08 PM

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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

This thread has pretty much debunked Heretic's theory that disapproving of Palin means hating her.

Oh absolutely, Kitten. Reasoned disagreement ALWAYS begins by calling someone an idiotic cunt.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to kittinSol)

RE: We HATES Her - 10/6/2008 8:34:52 PM

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So much anger, so much fear, so much running. The only hatred I've seen on this thread comes from Palin's defenders against those that dare object to her presence on the national political stage. How DARE they, the insensitive, libewal elitists

.

Poor Sarah, she's so misunderstood

. (And before you rush in a haste to call that hatred, I'll preempt you with a little bit of Bush doctrine: this isn't hatred, this is wry humour

.)

_____________________________

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RE: We HATES Her - 10/6/2008 8:46:12 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
The only hatred I've seen on this thread comes from Palin's defenders

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to kittinSol)

RE: We HATES Her - 10/6/2008 11:51:00 PM

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Joined: 1/20/2007
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I hate Palin, and I dont think shes that pretty, so its not a jealousy thing... I hate her because I think she gives women a bad name, and I also hate her because she is one of the worst things to happen to the enviornment since the logging industry... But hey, thats just my opinion. Im just one of those many women who support Obama...

(in reply to TheHeretic)

RE: We HATES Her - 10/7/2008 2:52:43 AM

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Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY
It's one thing to say that you don't agree with someone's views... it's even okay to say that you believe you are right and that they are wrong... but to denigrate the intelligence and thought processes of an entire group of people just because you don't believe what they believe is bigoted.

The Fuehrer has asked me to convey his sincere appreciation to be hearing that after all the nasty things you Americans have said about him. Even though he is now very old and quite poorly, we saw again the light in his eyes for the first time since many years when he heard your thoughts.

Dr E
Altmark Retirement Home
Lima
Peru

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to TreasureKY)

RE: We HATES Her - 10/7/2008 4:50:11 AM

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Hi Lady E.

Have we reached Godwin's Law yet?

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to LadyEllen)

RE: We HATES Her - 10/7/2008 4:55:51 AM

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From: Stourport-England
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Several pages back I think FHKY........ but it never does any harm to shoot arrows in all directions so Godwin's son tells me, if its one in the eye for the opposition

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

RE: We HATES Her - 10/7/2008 5:49:50 AM

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Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

.. but I believe that mine is better than hers.

And this, my dear, can quickly become the basis of intolerance and dehumanization all by itself.

"Liberals" are suppose to be "tolerant" and "open-minded" about others beliefs. Sadly, I find this to be the exception to many "liberal" minded people rather than the rule.

I suspect that if you were " .. a bigot, a homophobe, a sexist, intolerant, myopic, ideological, ..." when you were a Christian, that, other than your specific targets of hatred, you might not be much different now that you have flipped over to "the dark side".

Firm

Not quite Firm.

Liberals are intolerant of intolerance.Figure it out.

And don`t make the mistake of pigeon holing liberals,or any one for that matter and how they`re supposed to be.

Even conservatives(sept for a few) don`t like religious zealots.

Please don`t take it persoally,but there are plenty of normal folks of all flavors who don`t care to usher in the rapture(as fundies like Palin do).

These folks love their children and grandchildren and so on and don`t want "end times".It`s not a hate of the rapture or of it`s proponents.It more of a love of life and desire for a future for their families.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 10/7/2008 5:54:38 AM >

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RE: We HATES Her - 10/7/2008 7:13:52 AM

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From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

The Fuehrer has asked me to convey his sincere appreciation to be hearing that after all the nasty things you Americans have said about him. Even though he is now very old and quite poorly, we saw again the light in his eyes for the first time since many years when he heard your thoughts.

Dr E
Altmark Retirement Home
Lima
Peru

Tsk, tsk, LE...

It is a pity that the respect and freedom we've striven to accord to mankind as a whole can be taken advantage of by a few. I believe, however, that the alternative would be unjust for a great many, as has been in the past. Are you suggesting that we were correct in judging all "Krauts" by this one man? That perhaps our treatment of "Japs" was equally justifiable? We could go back even further in history to examine past bigotry against groups of people, if you like.

Personally, I prefer to allow each man to stand or fall on his own merits.

(in reply to LadyEllen)

RE: We HATES Her - 10/7/2008 7:23:28 AM

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Not at all TKY - merely pointing out that your comment opens the floodgates for all manner of bigotry to establish itself as credible.
E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to TreasureKY)

RE: We HATES Her - 10/7/2008 7:42:58 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Not at all TKY - merely pointing out that your comment opens the floodgates for all manner of bigotry to establish itself as credible.
E

By all means, we should then condemn any group of people who don't believe as we do. Yanno... open the door to acceptance and understanding just a tiny bit for just one group and all sorts of kooks will be demanding rights and recognition... or worse, representation! Imagine... they might even want to push their beliefs off on everyone else! Can't have that... better to just say anyone who doesn't believe what we believe must be an idiot with flawed thinking.

< Message edited by TreasureKY -- 10/7/2008 7:45:49 AM >

(in reply to LadyEllen)

RE: We HATES Her - 10/7/2008 7:51:57 AM

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Not at all TKY - its OK if someone disagrees but has valid reasoning behind their viewpoint, but what you said indicated to me that any kind of viewpoint is valid, regardless of how it was reached.

This would indicate not only that the nazis had a valid viewpoint, but also that an utterly deluded psychotic's viewpoint should be respected too.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to TreasureKY)

RE: We HATES Her - 10/7/2008 7:55:20 AM

Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

brainiac,

Generally, I have found you to be reasonable and intelligent. Other than this particularly emotional reaction to religious beliefs, I've seen no words of yours that perplex me or cause me to believe anything negative about you.

This distaste of Palin because she is religious though, seems to be an emotional reaction of some sort. Why, or how you choose to mis-interpret her words is beyond my ken.

It has already been pointed out - and explained - that she did not say that she believes that she knows "the will of God". In fact, the specific words showed exactly the opposite: that she hoped (prayed) that the actions of the US in the war were in accordance with God's will.

How could she pray for that, if she already knew God's will?

Firm

Firm,

My distaste for Palin is not because she is religious - it is because she is ignorant and completely unqualified to hold the second highest office in the world. I don't feel as strongly toward Mike Huckabee, Pat Buchanan, or Mitt Romney -although I also disagree with their religious views - but they are intelligent, learned men with a more sophisticated comprehension of the world we live in, business, economics, and foreign policy.

Palin's fundamentalist religious beliefs only contribute to her ignorance. Any adult who continues to believe that the Bible is the literal, infallible word of God demonstrates a lack of intellectual curiousity required to understand the world we live in. If she believes the Bible to be the word of God, ergo she must know the will of God through the teachings of the Bible, right? You seem to think that my position is so narrowly focused on a few words she made about praying for the soldiers. It is not. My position is based on my knowledge and experienced with fundamentalist evangelical churches and teachings, which I believe to be very dangerous.

I have been accused of being bigoted and hateful toward all Christians. I am not. I am very wary of fundamentalist belief in any religion, because these are the people who seek to impose their beliefs on others, because after all, it is God's will.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

RE: We HATES Her - 10/7/2008 8:19:24 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Not at all TKY - its OK if someone disagrees but has valid reasoning behind their viewpoint, but what you said indicated to me that any kind of viewpoint is valid, regardless of how it was reached.

This would indicate not only that the nazis had a valid viewpoint, but also that an utterly deluded psychotic's viewpoint should be respected too.

E

It's a slippery slope when talking about beliefs. This is why I carefully worded what I said. Please note again...

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

It's one thing to say that you don't agree with someone's views... it's even okay to say that you believe you are right and that they are wrong... but to denigrate the intelligence and thought processes of an entire group of people just because you don't believe what they believe is bigoted.

Now watch...

I don't agree with Nazi beliefs and I believe they are wrong.

See... I've made a personal judgment on Nazi beliefs but I've not stooped to bigotry against any one who adheres to those beliefs. I've not given valid reasons for my disagreement or how I reached it... but neither have I given respect, opened the door to credibility, or validated those beliefs.

(in reply to LadyEllen)

RE: We HATES Her - 10/7/2008 8:22:02 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

There's a huge difference between saying "our troops are on a task from God" and "pray that our leaders are sending the troops on a task from God".

So, it's ok if our leaders believe they are sending troops on a task from God as long as our troops aren't really on a task from God.

Ooooooooooooooookayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!

Glad you cleared that up.

I can see why you have a hard time keeping up with Sarah Palin and the English language.

One is a definitive statement, the other is a supplication. Kinda like the difference between saying, "I made the right decision" and "I hope I make the right decision."

Is that too hard for you to understand?

Edited to add:

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

Please explain the difference because I don't see it.

TN, please see my explanation above. Please let me know if it's still too difficult for you to understand.

Yes, I definitely do have trouble keeping up with Sarah Palin's version of English.

Seems there are a lot of us illiterates who have trouble understanding her obviously advanced use of the language:

Sarah’s Pompom Palaver
Watching Gov. Sarah Palin’s strenuously folksy debate performance, we could wonder when elite became a bad thing in America.
October 5, 2008

Sometimes, her sentences have a Yoda-like — “When 900 years old you reach, look as good you will not” — splendor. When she was asked by Couric if she’d ever negotiated with the Russians, the governor replied that when Putin “rears his head” he is headed for Alaska. Then she uttered yet another sentence that defies diagramming: “It is from Alaska that we send those out to make sure that an eye is being kept on this very powerful nation, Russia, because they are right there.”

Luckily we have an expert on board well-versed in Sarahspeak, so maybe you can translate this as well.

By the way, your stretching to make a semantical argument doesn't alter the fact that no matter how you parse it she's watched too many reruns of the Blues Brothers and believes "we're on a mission from God".

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 10/7/2008 8:59:43 AM >

(in reply to TreasureKY)

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