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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I would be more specific though. Given that there are state funds involved. Rather than call it creationism, I would make it an overview of all religioun's views on the beginning of life. Totally equal time for each. Otherwise the students will not get a balanced point of view and you will be right back to making it specifically about one. Which would be seen as promoting a specific religious dogma. That is where I would, as a parent, have a problem with it.

The idea of a separate class for each religioun, while admirable, isn't feasible. Too many and too few funds. Not to mention you would have kids going to school for nothing but these specific classes just because of the vast number of them.

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ORIGINAL: bluepanda

I'm sorry, but with all due respect, I'm afraid it is. What you don't seem to understand is that evolution is a proven fact. There's no question about that at all. The theory of evolution is, itself, a constantly evolving study of the basic details of how that all works, but the fact that science can't explain every detail of how evolution works doesn't mean there's any question that it does. If you attempt to argue that creation mythology is just as valid as evolutionary science because not knowing a few details about evolutionary science is exactly the same as not having any evidence whatsoever for creation mythology, then your argument is, unfortunately, borne of ignorance. Sorry.

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ORIGINAL: QuietlySeeking

The Theory of Evolution is a proven fact....when applied to bacteria, viruses, and very simple organisms.  Yet, the scientific community has yet to show a single instance of an ape evolving into a human being in our modern world

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ORIGINAL: QuietlySeeking

The Evolutionary model may apply to some organisms; however, it has been suggested to apply to ALL organisms which is where my problems with the application of the theory begin.

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ORIGINAL: QuietlySeeking

For those with the scientific mind, something can only be proven to be *false*.

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ORIGINAL: QuietlySeeking

There is a complete lack of contradictory evidence regarding God creating the universe, which makes it scientifically as valid as any other Theory of Creation.

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ORIGINAL: hoodie

Fair enough.  I could go along with that idea. 

I say Creationism, because outside of the Bible, I don't know what other religion's teach about the origin of man. 

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excerpt of writing by Michael Shermer

--No Creation Story from India, where "The world has always existed as it is
now, unchanging from eternity."

--The Slain Monster Creation Story from Sumeria-Babylonia, where "The world
was created from the parts of a slain monster."

--The Primordial Parents Creation Stories from the Zuni Indians, Cook
Islanders, and Egyptians, where "The world was created by the interaction
of primordial parents."

--The Cosmic Egg Creation Stories from Japan, Samoa, Persia, and China, where
"The world was generated from an egg."

--The Sea Creation Stories from the Burmese, Choctaw Indians, and Icelanders,
where "The world was created from out of the sea."

--The Spoken Edict Creation Stories from the Mayans, the Egyptians, and the
Hebrews, where "The world sprang into being at the command of a god."

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ORIGINAL: QuietlySeeking

For those with the scientific mind, something can only be proven to be *false*.  There is a complete lack of contradictory evidence regarding God creating the universe, which makes it scientifically as valid as any other Theory of Creation.

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ORIGINAL: hoodie

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

There is nothing wrong in discussing Creationism in schools.  What is wrong is presenting it as a valid alternative to evolution theory.

One is based on scientific methods while the other is purely based on faith.

Teaching evolution as science and Creationism as religious philosophy is fine. 

Exactly.  I've advocated a seperate ELECTIVE class for Creationism for several years.

I live just about 15 miles from the Dover School District in Pennsylvania, who made it manditory to teach Intelligent Design, in place of Evolution as our origin.

They're first mistake.  Making it mandatory.  Their second mistake, not allowing any dissent to the matter - none from faculty, students, their parents or the community. 

The debate, when had, is a good one.  Allowing young minds to think critically, and expand beyond what they see in a school book is quite refreshing.

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ORIGINAL: QuietlySeeking
The Theory of Evolution is a proven fact....when applied to bacteria, viruses, and very simple organisms.  Yet, the scientific community has yet to show a single instance of an ape evolving into a human being in our modern world.  Given that most of the research in "evolving behavior" comes from a superior thinker (human) teaching a inferior thinker (an ape) how to do something, wouldn't you say that casts some doubt on the research?  The Evolutionary model may apply to some organisms; however, it has been suggested to apply to ALL organisms which is where my problems with the application of the theory begin.

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For those with the scientific mind, something can only be proven to be *false*.  There is a complete lack of contradictory evidence regarding God creating the universe, which makes it scientifically as valid as any other Theory of Creation.

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By any reasonable definition humans are a great ape. Our morphological, biochemical and genetic features are virtually identical to the other great apes.

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ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

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By any reasonable definition humans are a great ape. Our morphological, biochemical and genetic features are virtually identical to the other great apes.

What about our linguistic intellectual features?
Dont they count ? 
With regard to morphology Ken , which is it with you, are you hairy or ugly.
Only arskin'.

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You must produce some testable hypothesis based on your goddidit claim for it have any scientific credibility

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ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

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You must produce some testable hypothesis based on your goddidit claim for it have any scientific credibility

One of the things I would teach in comparative religion is that the God hypothesis is basically untestable but does address profound concepts. both philosophical and scientific.

The NS hypothesis is equally untestable but is generally held to be true by those whose basic rationale is an antagonism to the God  hypothesis , a committment to a simplistic reductionism. and not infrequently no understanding of what it is they claim to believe.

Scientistific creationism involves life arising from inert matter.
See thats how creationism would be included in schools.

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ORIGINAL: Racquelle

What it really comes down to is this - proponents of "Creationism" as a subject in public schools are never speaking of anything but the Christian Creation story.  They are not proposing a scholarly exposition and discussion of ideas.  They are proposing a distinctly religious agenda, just one religion, just one small sub-sect of that religion.  Trying to bring creationism or intelligent design into the science classroom is an end-run around the separation of church and state.  Neither of these concepts is science.  They simply aren't.  They are matters of faith.  I am a Christian, and I believe in God's creative power, but I am not so narrow as to believe evolution is not part of that.  I do not desire to have my beliefs forced on children in public schools, and I certainly don't desire it done under false pretenses.  The hope of those that promote "creationism" is that we, as a population, are already pretty ignorant about science, so that we don't realize how apocryphal their position is.  I have seen rather average, sensible folks in this thread acquiesse to a position which is a logical falacy.  No one proposes an actual "discussion" of creationism - simply the right to delare its truth.  The declaration of "creationism" is essentially a religious declaration, and it belongs in the religious institutions that promote it, and between individuals, not as a matter of curriculum in public institutions.

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Yet, the scientific community has yet to show a single instance of an ape evolving into a human being in our modern world.

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ORIGINAL: hoodie

Not necessarily.  Reading the Bible for the first time, I thought it was the greatest storybook out there. 

My favorite teacher, in Catholic school, was my religion teacher who allowed us to question the Catholic faith, and gave us the answers as the facts supported them.  At no time were we ever told we just "had" to believe it, but she supported our right to be inquisitive, and that actually made the class WORTH having.

I'll agree that many people just blindly follow.  However, for others, they've done their homework.