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Self Respect For Slaves - 10/8/2008 9:26:11 PM

exile509

Posts: 31
Joined: 4/6/2008
Status: offline

Ok, here's an interesting one for ya.

With my property, i like to instill a sense of "Self Respect" in them. a majority of my rules are associated to this concept, here's an example from the last contract i wrote:
Extension- As my Owner’s property I am an extension of him. To insult myself is to insult him, to disrespect him. And to disrespect my Owner is to bring upon myself more than just punishment. I will never refer to my self in a negative way again, if there is something that I am not fond of about my self I will phrase it in the most positive way I can. If something is deeply bothering me I will talk to my Owner and work hard to solve my issue.

As a sub/slave, what is your opinion of this concept?
Do you feel this idea is too much of a contradiction?
Would this detour a slave who wants to be treated like they are worthless?
How would you feel about this in your contract?

Post #: 1

RE: Self Respect For Slaves - 10/8/2008 10:15:25 PM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: exile509
As a sub/slave, what is your opinion of this concept?

It makes sense to me. Master pretty much insists upon the same concepts in our M/s relationship. I'm to look at and speak upon things realistically. I'm not perfect and I, like every human, have some negatives. One can face those said negatives without being disrespectful or bashing him/herself. It's all about recognizing them and working to improve them. For instance, calling myself fat or unattractive isn't allowed. Noting that I need to shed a few pounds and talking about just how I intend to do that is what is acceptable/expected.

quote:

Would this detour a slave who wants to be treated like they are worthless?

Possibly. As I am not worthless and have no desire to be treated as such, I really can't speak on that.

quote:

How would you feel about this in your contract?

I don't have a contract. It was never necessary. However, as I said above, your concepts make perfect sense to me

.............luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to exile509)

Post #: 2

RE: Self Respect For Slaves - 10/8/2008 10:35:29 PM

exile509

Posts: 31
Joined: 4/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

However, as I said above, your concepts make perfect sense to me

can i get that in writing?

"Slave tested, Luci approved!"

(in reply to slaveluci)

Post #: 3

RE: Self Respect For Slaves - 10/8/2008 10:41:36 PM

WyldHrt

Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline

Hey, no altering my sig line for your own purposes, Exile!

_____________________________

"MotherFUCKER!" is NOT a safeword!!"- Steel
"We've had complaints about 'orgy noises'. This is not the neighborhood for that kind of thing"- PVE Cop

Resident "Hypnotic Eyes", "Cleavage" and "Toy Whore"
Subby Mafia, VAA Posse & Team Troll!

(in reply to exile509)

Post #: 4

RE: Self Respect For Slaves - 10/8/2008 11:28:17 PM

exile509

Posts: 31
Joined: 4/6/2008
Status: offline

just an awsome coincidence, nothing more *evil grin*

(in reply to WyldHrt)

Post #: 5

RE: Self Respect For Slaves - 10/8/2008 11:39:19 PM

WyldHrt

Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline

*puts on boots*
It's getting deep in here.....

As to your OP, I agree with Luci. Some subs/slaves enjoy or even thrive on being treated as "worthless". I am not one of them, nor would I stay with a Dom who treated me as such.

< Message edited by WyldHrt -- 10/9/2008 12:00:53 AM >

_____________________________

"MotherFUCKER!" is NOT a safeword!!"- Steel
"We've had complaints about 'orgy noises'. This is not the neighborhood for that kind of thing"- PVE Cop

Resident "Hypnotic Eyes", "Cleavage" and "Toy Whore"
Subby Mafia, VAA Posse & Team Troll!

(in reply to exile509)

Post #: 6

RE: Self Respect For Slaves - 10/8/2008 11:52:20 PM

bluefireroses

Posts: 37
Joined: 8/22/2008
Status: offline

While i have never had a contract, i would say that this concept seems very important.

i have talked to Doms who prefer their subs to be strong women who chose to submit. i think it plays more into the power exchange. For me, i am able to come out side of myself more fully if i know that my Dom has respect for me. By reaffirming the self respect that i have, i am able to do more for Him that i might not otherwise be able to do. i don't find it to be a contradiction, but some thing that adds more to the dynamic.

While i do like humiliation, i would not be able to be treated as though i was worthless. Perhaps someone else could give you insight to that.

(in reply to exile509)

Post #: 7

RE: Self Respect For Slaves - 10/9/2008 12:06:03 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

I have a tendency to be attracted to slave who already have a sense of self respect. However, I can see how one might be put into my path who doesn't. It's a good topic and has given me something to think about...how WOULD I help someone reprogram themselves?

Of course, in the end, they'll only be reprogrammed as much as they really want to be. Some people thrive on the attention pity brings them.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to exile509)

Post #: 8

RE: Self Respect For Slaves - 10/9/2008 4:50:39 AM

IrishMist

Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

NO ONE can give me self-respect; nor force it upon me. It is something that is either there, or it is not there. It can not be given to me, bestowed upon me, forced upon me, or ordered to feel.

As for being made to feel worthless; those who find their kink in this, it in no way diminshes their own self-worth or self-respect; it's just a kink like any other.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to exile509)

Post #: 9

RE: Self Respect For Slaves - 10/9/2008 5:12:58 AM

WestBaySlave

Posts: 501
Joined: 9/24/2008
Status: offline

quote:

As a sub/slave, what is your opinion of this concept?
Do you feel this idea is too much of a contradiction?
Would this detour a slave who wants to be treated like they are worthless?
How would you feel about this in your contract?

I think it's a good idea, especially given that self-esteen issues are not uncommon among subs and slaves.

It's odd, I realize it's a quirk of my own mind rather than anything the person is saying, but positive reinforcement tends to work a lot better along dom/sub lines for me.

At its best, dom/sub is itself confidence boosting for me. I'm exposing what I feel to be my weakest, most sensitive side, and not only am I not being thought of worse of for it, but I'm being encouraged and appreciated.

Dom/sub and master/slave situation involve both parties reaching out and being emotionally vulnerable. It's less apparent with doms, but it's still there, and I think a lot of good can be worked both ways in this mindset.

As for slaves who want to feel worthless, well... I'd take a shot in the dark and say a lot of that stems from the power exchange. Slaves who wants to be scum, worthless, useless, etc. Have their counterparts in masters and mistresses who want to be treated as living gods and godesses. Both sides are are making a value divide in order to emphasize their desired positions, so oddly enough, there's a chance that some "worthless" slaves don't actually feel worthless, they just want to be treated that way.

Ultimately we're all just people looking to have our needs met, but sometimes people just like to feel "lower" or "higher" without that meaning better or worse.

On a personal level, I kind of understand, though that's not my scene. For example I understand and can enjoy verbal abuse in the context of a scene; degradation can be hot. The problm is comes when dealing with
more ambiguous situations like, say, shopping at the mall, where if a master was verbally abusive I'd wonder if they really meant it rather than were just getting off on it ( there can be a big difference ).

As usually IMO, YMMV and apologies if this doesn't make sense; it's late here.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 10

RE: Self Respect For Slaves - 10/9/2008 5:23:07 AM

chamberqueen

Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline

I love it. I even used it as an example for a sub I am training.

I think that a lot of people who enjoy serving had a tendency to be self deprecating. I said something to my Master once about me not being beautiful and he simply said: STOP. He explained himself, but that STOP stayed with me and each time I'm tempted to knock myself I remember that and smile. I needed that help, and it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of slaves do. I am very confident of my career skills but less confident in myself as a person. I needed that reminder and I think it is great that you build something like that right into your contract.

_____________________________

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 11

RE: Self Respect For Slaves - 10/9/2008 5:32:41 AM

natasha66

Posts: 321
Joined: 10/14/2006
From: NJ
Status: offline

Plain and simple, if i don't respect myself, i can't respect others, and vice versa. i am not one of those slaves who thrives on being told i am worthless - it merely pisses me off.

_____________________________

"If you bother me again I shall visit you in the small hours of the night and put a bat up your nightdress".
~Basil Fawlty

Collared June 4th, 2008
Love is giving him the power to destroy you, but trusting him not to.

(in reply to chamberqueen)

Post #: 12

RE: Self Respect For Slaves - 10/9/2008 5:34:10 AM

sambamanslilgirl

Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

it works only for your relationship since it definitely wouldn't work in mine with Daddy. we each are responsibile for our own actions - none of this extension of Him.

self-respect, in my pov, comes within- not from someone else. i already had that and didn't need to be taught on how to get it.

edited to add: self-respect also is a mental perception of yourself - either you have it or don't ...something i believe you cannot teach if that person believes and perceives themselves to be worthless.

< Message edited by sambamanslilgirl -- 10/9/2008 5:58:14 AM >

_____________________________

...2011 - year of the fabulous rock star life ...and i do it so well...

...announcing Mr. & Mrs. British Petrol ...yeah, marrying into oil is slick business...

(in reply to exile509)

Post #: 13

RE: Self Respect For Slaves - 10/9/2008 8:13:05 AM

missturbation

Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline

quote:

As a sub/slave, what is your opinion of this concept?

That what you are referring to is more self esteem than self respect. You only cover the aspect of being negative about oneself.

quote:

Do you feel this idea is too much of a contradiction?

Contradiction to what?

quote:

How would you feel about this in your contract?

I don't have a contract but it wouldn't bother me.

On the subject of self respect i always try to be someone i have respect for. I also try to be someone Sir will respect at all times. Sometimes though in order to maintain my self respect i have had to do things Sir would maybe wish i wouldn't. I have this ideal that respect works all ways but in reality it doesn't.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to exile509)

Post #: 14

RE: Self Respect For Slaves - 10/9/2008 8:14:30 AM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
Status: offline

It is as I tell my slave....

She is my slave, she is my woman, she is my property. That she is mine makes her a great lady before the entire world (and heaven help the poor soul that argues the point).

_____________________________

(in reply to exile509)

Post #: 15

RE: Self Respect For Slaves - 10/9/2008 8:40:59 AM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: exile509
As a sub/slave, what is your opinion of this concept?

I expect my Fox ti have a healthy sense of self respect. I also expect him to get respect fro others. He is slave to me, but equal to everyone else. I do not expect not appreciate other dominants assuming he wil be sub to them just becasue he is an owned slave. Many dont like that but that is my way.

quote:

Do you feel this idea is too much of a contradiction?

Not at all

quote:

Would this detour a slave who wants to be treated like they are worthless?

Deter I think you mean, and I certainly hope so. If someone is worthless I will likely agree and find some better use of my time.

quote:

How would you feel about this in your contract?

We do not do contracts.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to exile509)

Post #: 16

RE: Self Respect For Slaves - 10/9/2008 8:47:46 AM

subtee

Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline

~FR

Ya know, I've been trying to work on the self esteem, self concept, self bashing...I just suck at it.

_____________________________

Don't believe everything you think...

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

Post #: 17

RE: Self Respect For Slaves - 10/9/2008 9:18:27 AM

littleone35

Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline

I have a lot of self worth that was never a problem. I am a little overweight so i had bad self esteem about my body. I was always saying i am so fat, Master tells me will you stop that you are mine and i love your body. I asked him even my ugly scar (had surgery last year) he said i love your scar because it is a part of you. Master is very good for my self esteem he always tells me how beautiful and sexy i am.

We have a contract that is not part of it but it sounds like a good idea. If Master ever told me i was worthless ,i would show him the door and push him out it. He would never do that because he loves me as much as i love him.

Matt's littleone

(in reply to subtee)

Post #: 18

RE: Self Respect For Slaves - 10/9/2008 9:40:16 AM

dangerousangel

Posts: 31
Joined: 6/12/2008
Status: offline

I think its really important to go -into- ownership with self respect. How can one surrender one's self if you don't believe you have something of worth to surrender?

I think it's wonderful for d-types to want to make sure their girls/boys can stand up for themselves, but I think in some ways that discredits the s-type in that it implies they come in without self respect, without a value for themsleves.

I'd much rather see s-types work on their own self value before they belong to sometime, before they bring their insecurities to their Owners.

That said, I think it can be fun to do the "worthless" thing in play, for a limited period. But, like it or not, I'm a highly intelligent, reasoned woman, and I am -not- worthless, so I can't keep it up for longer than play.

_____________________________

How quick bright things come to confusion.

(in reply to littleone35)

Post #: 19

RE: Self Respect For Slaves - 10/9/2008 11:35:55 AM

VivaciousSub

Posts: 446
Joined: 9/7/2008
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: exile509

Ok, here's an interesting one for ya.

With my property, i like to instill a sense of "Self Respect" in them. a majority of my rules are associated to this concept, here's an example from the last contract i wrote:
Extension- As my Owner’s property I am an extension of him. To insult myself is to insult him, to disrespect him. And to disrespect my Owner is to bring upon myself more than just punishment. I will never refer to my self in a negative way again, if there is something that I am not fond of about my self I will phrase it in the most positive way I can. If something is deeply bothering me I will talk to my Owner and work hard to solve my issue.

As a sub/slave, what is your opinion of this concept?
Do you feel this idea is too much of a contradiction?
Would this detour a slave who wants to be treated like they are worthless?
How would you feel about this in your contract?

Exile,

I like the idea of the concept very well. I would agree with the other posters that it's probably for the best that you find someone who has a sense of self-respect already, but even the best of us have times and days where we can be very hard on ourselves. I don't like hearing negative self-talk from those I'm close to, and if you can use your relationship to affect a positive change, so much the better.

No, I don't feel the idea is a contradiction.

I don't think there's too many of us out there that like being treated as if worthless, because for the most part, we do feel we have worth, lots of it. I do like humiliation and degradation as part of play, but Sir knows that and keeps it there. If He up and started treating me like hell outside of those boundaries, He'd be alone in a tearing hurry.

Like others, we don't have a contract. We do have a list of stated rules though, and one of them is "lines of communication will always be kept open". I suspect that if I started acting negatively towards myself, He'd have a lot to say about it.

_____________________________

9.8m/s^2 + VivaciousSub + ground = ouchx10^9th

To yield readily--easily--to the persuasion of a friend is no merit.... To yield without conviction is no compliment to the understanding of either. ~ Pride and Prejudice

(in reply to exile509)

Post #: 20

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