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RE: abortion, 42 days and the suppression of liberty - 10/25/2008 1:58:26 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		OK - how about the votes of the Radical Lesbian Party for 42 days, in return for the castration of all males?

"Just a political bargain"

E

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RE: abortion, 42 days and the suppression of liberty - 10/25/2008 2:09:41 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

The point was, this was a debate in the UK Parliament, not at the NI Assembly. The Ulster Unionist votes were used to buy off this debate because of their support in the UK Parliament to detain citizens without charge for 42 days.

E


Your op doesnt state the full position of the people of Northern Ireland. You conveniently overlook the fact, that all the main parties and the Churchs in Ulster dont want the abortion law extended over there. Explain to me how any deal would benefit the Unionists, because as i see it, the majority, Catholic and Protestant, male and female, dont want change.

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RE: abortion, 42 days and the suppression of liberty - 10/25/2008 2:13:08 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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From: S.E. London U.K.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
OK - how about the votes of the Radical Lesbian Party for 42 days, in return for the castration of all males?
"Just a political bargain"
E

Sure why not, I've long been a supporter of the RLP

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RE: abortion, 42 days and the suppression of liberty - 10/25/2008 3:12:07 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		It always goes back to the same argument: those that don't need and don't want a termination shouldn't have them. Those that need and want them should be able to have them: I'm getting so fucking sick and tired of hearing of people (men, mostly) arguing against this most basic of individual freedoms  , especially when it's for the purpose of 'political negofuckingtiations'. 

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RE: abortion, 42 days and the suppression of liberty - 10/25/2008 3:33:00 PM   
Racquelle


Posts: 600
Joined: 4/21/2008
Status: offline 		I don't get much exposure to the political workings of other countries, and I am glad you are speaking about these things.  I don't have much to add to the discussion, but  think I agree with you.  In the USA, we do not have the serious involvement of more than two parties in most political discourse, and we tend to think there are only two ways of looking at issues.  It's either black or it's white.  Never occurs to us it could be pink, green and orange also.

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RE: abortion, 42 days and the suppression of liberty - 10/25/2008 3:36:22 PM   
NeedsFocus


Posts: 42
Joined: 4/6/2008
Status: offline 		Racquel, that's because a multi-party system rarely allows for a majority vote. It certainly sucks though.

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RE: abortion, 42 days and the suppression of liberty - 10/25/2008 3:48:19 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

The point was, this was a debate in the UK Parliament, not at the NI Assembly. The Ulster Unionist votes were used to buy off this debate because of their support in the UK Parliament to detain citizens without charge for 42 days.

E


Your op doesnt state the full position of the people of Northern Ireland. You conveniently overlook the fact, that all the main parties and the Churchs in Ulster dont want the abortion law extended over there. Explain to me how any deal would benefit the Unionists, because as i see it, the majority, Catholic and Protestant, male and female, dont want change.


The fact that thousands travel over to GB says that its something that many need.

The problem with your argument is that it conveniently overlooks the fact that people in Northern Ireland had better tow the line or else when it comes to political affiliations and religious beliefs.

Standing on Belfast high street protesting for abortion rights isnt something I'd fancy doing. And I reckon that given that I was a local and I did that I think I might expect some "remedial education" on the subject at a later date too.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: abortion, 42 days and the suppression of liberty - 10/25/2008 4:15:23 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

The fact that thousands travel over to GB says that its something that many need.

The problem with your argument is that it conveniently overlooks the fact that people in Northern Ireland had better tow the line or else when it comes to political affiliations and religious beliefs.

E


Now you are switching the argument to suit yourself. You clearly stated that the Unionist had cut a deal on this issue. I am correctly pointing out that this isnt the case. Since you know i am right, you are now changing tack. My point to you isnt about abortion, its about your bogus post claiming a deal was cut with the Unionists on this issue.

Edits to add : How am i conveniently overlooking anything, when it is clear both religions and all the main parties are thinking the same way ? 

< Message edited by Politesub53 -- 10/25/2008 4:19:37 PM >

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RE: abortion, 42 days and the suppression of liberty - 10/25/2008 4:24:28 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Thats how it was reported PS - no one on the New Labour or Unionist side refuted it as I heard?

Its not so much a case of representing constituents, as it is of enforcing an agenda upon them and by way of their submission to threats of ostracisation and even violence where need be, then claiming they are representing them.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: abortion, 42 days and the suppression of liberty - 10/25/2008 4:44:19 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
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Status: offline 		http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/jun/11/terrorism.civilliberties2

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RE: abortion, 42 days and the suppression of liberty - 10/25/2008 9:17:18 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:




The fact that thousands travel over to GB says that its something that many need.

The problem with your argument is that it conveniently overlooks the fact that people in Northern Ireland had better tow the line or else when it comes to political affiliations and religious beliefs.

Standing on Belfast high street protesting for abortion rights isnt something I'd fancy doing. And I reckon that given that I was a local and I did that I think I might expect some "remedial education" on the subject at a later date too.


LE you know that's an ignorant, bigoted thing to say.  I'm sorry that they didn't vote the way you wanted, but it isn't confirmation that everyone in Ulster is beholden to thugs. 

I am descended from Ulster Scots just like most people born in Appalachia.  I've had to endure similar insulting accusations.  Hillbilly, white trash, violent savages, you name it....it's an unfair prejudice that is rooted in those same kind of ignorant comments.  The Unionists and Republican radicals don't control the populace in Northern Ireland anymore than the Klan does here.  Shame on you for thinking otherwise. 

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RE: abortion, 42 days and the suppression of liberty - 10/26/2008 6:07:29 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		The party was also seeking a guarantee that the human embryology and fertility bill, currently going through parliament, would not be loosened to allow UK abortion rules to apply in Northern Ireland.
But as he returned from the lobbies to confirm that the nine DUP MPs had voted with the government, McCrea said these were separate issues.
 
Your link was published back in June PS; funny how things turn out - total coincidence I'm sure. And that they havent refuted that it might be otherwise than a pure coincidence this week is "a separate issue" I'm certain.

And SBFY - if you really think that NI is somewhere you can afford to not be "on side" one way or the other, you need to read up a bit more. Its a deeply divided society - you're either on one side or the other, and everything you do - including where you live, whom you marry and what sports team you support - had best match with your affiliations if you dont want to be on the radar of those who perpetuate that division.

NI is still replete with violent armed thugs - but they're not the majority of course; but they dont need to be to act as the arbiters of who's alright and who's not and they're generally more into beatings than anything else. But even without the thugs, its the sort of place where if you're ostracised by your own side, you shouldnt expect to be able to find refuge in the other - you either stay onside or you leave for GB, of your own accord (or otherwise as a friend of mine discovered when he was kidnapped and told to get on the ferry if he valued his parents' lives, for the crime of being seen in a Republican pub).  

In fact we have a sizeable Irish population in my neighbourhood too - mostly Republican, been here a few generations now but still definitely Irish not British. They drink in a certain pub, where if you dont have at minimum an Irish name you're in trouble. But worse by far are the Unionists/Protestants in my opinion - a fascist by any other name is still a fascist.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: abortion, 42 days and the suppression of liberty - 10/26/2008 8:26:43 AM   
DelilahDeb


Posts: 429
Joined: 1/27/2008
Status: offline 		Somewhere I once read that "Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose." Such a male way of looking at it, yet it does encapsulate what one would think is self-evident (like certain other truths famously documented in 1776)—that a person's skin is the basic boundary of personal "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". Something that the entire pro-life lobby ignores in its zeal to bring Big Brother to life.

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RE: abortion, 42 days and the suppression of liberty - 10/26/2008 8:49:50 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

The point was, this was a debate in the UK Parliament, not at the NI Assembly. The Ulster Unionist votes were used to buy off this debate because of their support in the UK Parliament to detain citizens without charge for 42 days.

E


Your op doesnt state the full position of the people of Northern Ireland. You conveniently overlook the fact, that all the main parties and the Churchs in Ulster dont want the abortion law extended over there. Explain to me how any deal would benefit the Unionists, because as i see it, the majority, Catholic and Protestant, male and female, dont want change.


And yet so many travel over here to have terminations - go figure!!
 
Every person should have the right to an abortion if that is their choice. I would say quite a few of those who travel to the UK to have abortions, such as those who are pregnant as the result of rape etc, do not deserve to be used as political pawns.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: abortion, 42 days and the suppression of liberty - 10/26/2008 9:05:31 AM   
Politesub53


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Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

And yet so many travel over here to have terminations - go figure!!
 
Every person should have the right to an abortion if that is their choice. I would say quite a few of those who travel to the UK to have abortions, such as those who are pregnant as the result of rape etc, do not deserve to be used as political pawns.


I agree with you, if you read any of my posts on other threads on the issue you will see that. Despite the claims, both brown and the DUP have said there was no deal, which is why i objected to the OP. There are only assertions that any deal took place, and many choose to believe they are true.

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RE: abortion, 42 days and the suppression of liberty - 10/26/2008 9:14:56 AM   
Notsweet


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Joined: 6/11/2006
Status: offline 		Abortion for any reason. Nice. Not like we have birth control that doesn't kill a budding life. You can even get it for free, but that's not enough. You have to be able to kill the fetus all the way up until the time it's out of the mother. Why not extend that to the first birthday?

Rape, incest, life of the mother. I think we can all agree on that, but "We've already got two boys, we want a girl" or not bothering to hit the drug store for a condom is a little touchy for those of us who believe that the right to live is more important than the right to not be bothered. Forty weeks of pregnancy isn't a lifetime--and there are people desperate to take and love the child that results.

Emergency is one thing. Abortion for convenience is the depth of depravity.

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RE: abortion, 42 days and the suppression of liberty - 10/26/2008 9:21:45 AM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Notsweet

Rape, incest, life of the mother. I think we can all agree on that


...Sarah Palin doesn't......

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: abortion, 42 days and the suppression of liberty - 10/26/2008 9:34:30 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

And yet so many travel over here to have terminations - go figure!!
 
Every person should have the right to an abortion if that is their choice. I would say quite a few of those who travel to the UK to have abortions, such as those who are pregnant as the result of rape etc, do not deserve to be used as political pawns.


I agree with you, if you read any of my posts on other threads on the issue you will see that. Despite the claims, both brown and the DUP have said there was no deal, which is why i objected to the OP. There are only assertions that any deal took place, and many choose to believe they are true.


Oh come on!!
You think if their was such a deal they would have admitted it?
Citizens have been used so many times as pawns that its very easy to find the claim of a deal plausible.
Probably why so many are doing.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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RE: abortion, 42 days and the suppression of liberty - 10/26/2008 9:36:54 AM   
missturbation


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quote:

Emergency is one thing. Abortion for convenience is the depth of depravity.


It should still be a citizens CHOICE whether to go to those depths of depravity (as you call them) or not.
 


_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to Notsweet)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: abortion, 42 days and the suppression of liberty - 10/26/2008 9:41:54 AM   
unbroken33


Posts: 56
Joined: 2/19/2007
Status: offline 		That's the UK police state for you. 

It's not politics so much as absolute government control of basic freedom.  Telling a woman what she can and can't do with her own body, telling people they can't say or print certain things, jailing people who defend themselves with deadly force when deadly force be taken against them on the street, forcing firearm registration or taking them away from the common people--you get all that when you have government control to the point the UK has it. 

And from what I see, it's coming soon here in the US too!

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Profile   Post #: 40
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