RE: !!BUSTED!! Checking CollarMe at work

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RE: !!BUSTED!! Checking CollarMe at work - 11/21/2008 9:01:01 AM

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I’m at work right now. I can get away with it for three reasons. One, I have my own office (there’s a chance someone might come through the door but I see them coming and have time to click off). Two, I’m the most computer savvy person in the office – and I’m not very computer savvy at all! – so I don’t have to worry about people digging through my internet history. Three, everyone else in this office is related to me – they’d never suspect “wittle” marky (the baby of the family) of anything perverted (oh, if they only knew).

Also if I did get busted, I might have some bullshitting to do (“oh, I was just curious about the psycho-dynamics of a marginalized sub-culture”) but, as part owner of the business, they can’t really fire me now, can they?

CharlotteS said:

quote:

I have a friend who sent a pic of herself spanking another girl to Master. A few minutes later Master IMed her to say he hadn't gotten it. She checked and found she had sent it to her boss!!! She got fired.

What a dumb ass boss he (she?) blew a great opportunity. I’d have taken her into my office and said, “okay honey, you have two choices of punishment for this infraction. Clear off your desk and be gone by five, orrrrrrr, drop them britches and panties and bend over my lap for twenty hard ones. Perhaps if bosses doled out spankings instead of firing people, office productivity would increase. Then again, maybe it would decrease (opps, boss, I'm sorry. I forgot to mail the checks out again).

< Message edited by Marc2b -- 11/21/2008 9:03:51 AM >

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RE: !!BUSTED!! Checking CollarMe at work - 11/21/2008 9:01:59 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

I regularly use the computer at work to check email, CM, etc.

Using business assets for personal use, is fraud.

You may not see this as fraud, GT, but that doesn't mean it isn't fraud. Similarly, a doctor using public funded equipment for his private practice, is fraud. Your case may seem minor in comparison, but the principle remains the same. The assets you are using are bought and paid for by the owners in order to provide a service to the customers. There is a cost associated with your private use; someone has to pick up the tab - whether that be the owner or the customer.

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RE: !!BUSTED!! Checking CollarMe at work - 11/21/2008 9:15:28 AM

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General reply:

Is it right for an employee to order a computer, bought and paid for by the company, without the owner's knowledge, and take it home never to be seen again?

If the answer is no, then why is it right for an employee to use the owner's assets for personal gain without the owner's consent?

Both are fraudulent.

You know, many of us are quick to shout for fair play when execs are being paid astronomical bonuses, and quite rightly so; yet responsibility must be a two-way street.

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 11/21/2008 9:17:12 AM >

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RE: !!BUSTED!! Checking CollarMe at work - 11/21/2008 9:29:17 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

I’m at work right now. I can get away with it for three reasons.

When you price your products, do you take into account employee salaries as per any business with a modicum of nous?

If the answer is yes, I'm sure your customers will be over the moon to learn they're paying for your leisure activities.

The right eh? Full of personal responsibility sound-bites, short on 'practice what you preach'.

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RE: !!BUSTED!! Checking CollarMe at work - 11/21/2008 9:53:55 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

I regularly use the computer at work to check email, CM, etc.

Using business assets for personal use, is fraud.

You may not see this as fraud, GT, but that doesn't mean it isn't fraud. Similarly, a doctor using public funded equipment for his private practice, is fraud. Your case may seem minor in comparison, but the principle remains the same. The assets you are using are bought and paid for by the owners in order to provide a service to the customers. There is a cost associated with your private use; someone has to pick up the tab - whether that be the owner or the customer.

Point taken.

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RE: !!BUSTED!! Checking CollarMe at work - 11/21/2008 9:55:05 AM

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NG, I would take it even a step farther. I get paid by the hour. So does everyone else there. In that case it is right for someone to tell a customer to hold on, so they can answer their cellphone ?

Is it right to use the office copier for personal use whether it is to copy something for a lawyer or whatever, or one's ass ? (dunno bout over there but it's been done here)

I think there's a topic in the making here, the way you put it, seems to say you either are or have been "on the other side of the desk". I have. Not anymore, don't want it. I have been offered three businesses over the years with the owner willing to hold the note. The one business I did have was dissolved because of a few issues (it was a partnership) and the fact that it would have to move soon. Once I got back to cobbling I liked it better than the desk.

But really everybody wants to talk about how the fat cats stuck it to us and all this jetting around with tin cups, but what do the empoyees in general do to the bottom line ? Of course alot less each, but there are alot more of them.

T

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RE: !!BUSTED!! Checking CollarMe at work - 11/21/2008 10:11:29 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

NG, I would take it even a step farther. I get paid by the hour. So does everyone else there. In that case it is right for someone to tell a customer to hold on, so they can answer their cellphone ?

Is it right to use the office copier for personal use whether it is to copy something for a lawyer or whatever, or one's ass ? (dunno bout over there but it's been done here)

I think there's a topic in the making here, the way you put it, seems to say you either are or have been "on the other side of the desk".

I'm a qualified accountant, T. All the technical aspects I have learned are underpinned by a code of ethics: professionalism at all times, being competent, being fair with your customers in order to retain custom - for example, not expecting them to pick up the tab for your leisure activities in the work place - among others. This code of ethics is enshrined in Corporate Governance, and is enshrined in the institute to which I belong - the Chartered Institute of Management Accountants - were I, or anyone else qualified by this body, caught using the internet in such a manner, I'd lose my membership, my qualification, and the 17 exams that took up 3 years of my life would be down the drain; and quite rightly so. It follows I'd be out of a job, too.

In terms of mobile use, it's strict over here; if you must call friends or whatever, do it in your own time. Quite right, too. Again, it is fraud as someone has to pick up the tab for idle time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

But really everybody wants to talk about how the fat cats stuck it to us and all this jetting around with tin cups, but what do the empoyees in general do to the bottom line ? Of course alot less each, but there are alot more of them.

T

If we can't be responsible, then how can we expect the execs to be responsible? The same principle applies to government.

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RE: !!BUSTED!! Checking CollarMe at work - 11/21/2008 10:20:08 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

Point taken.

Just a spot of friendly advice, GT!

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RE: !!BUSTED!! Checking CollarMe at work - 11/21/2008 12:29:15 PM

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Okay WOW 3 pages. First off I should note I do not work for a large firm I fork for a company that is 7 people deep. The Boss Man, The Vice Boss Man, Two Install Technicians, The Service Manager, The Boss Man's Wife (Part Time) and Me.

As for Dicking around when there is work to be done. No I don't do that. But inbetween the phone calls and the invoices and paperwork filing I would check on things here.

Apparently I do my job quicker than he is used to it being done and am able to get everything done in an efficent and timely manner because this morning when I finished everything I usually get done through out the day and was sitting waiting for a call he asked if I had done _____ (Insert random task or duty here) to which I explained that I had, then he asked me to do a series of time waster activities (which I just completed before I took my lunch break)

I really don't think being on CollarMe was an issue he just thought I wasn't getting my work done. After I finished all the things he asked me to do he asked why I don't have all the days filing done most days and I explain since I am slow in the morning I always leave it for the next morning because in the event that him and his wife come in to do a deposit they can find corresponding paperwork quickly in the yet to be filed folder rather than going into all the filing cabinets looking for them

This is how I feel most of the time. I know I can do more but he is greatly attached to his Accounting paperwork so I can only get the files HALF done before I have to turn them over to him. He knows I can do them but he perfers to do it himself. I informed him that I could free up a lot of his time if he turned that part over to me but he has yet to do so.

So until he lets go of the control of that I find myself with Idle Hands.

As for the issue of Fraud, The letter of the law states that you must make personal Gains from it in order for it to be fraud so you would have to be making Money in order for it to fall under the Fraud law. However you can get fired for ANY reason in Utah as we are a right to work state.

My Bosses are cool people even thought they are both heavily LDS, I decided I'm only gunna log onto the site during my break when I am the only one in the office othertwise as has been said it just isn't worth it.

Steel

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RE: !!BUSTED!! Checking CollarMe at work - 11/21/2008 12:33:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

I regularly use the computer at work to check email, CM, etc.

Using business assets for personal use, is fraud.

You may not see this as fraud, GT, but that doesn't mean it isn't fraud. Similarly, a doctor using public funded equipment for his private practice, is fraud. Your case may seem minor in comparison, but the principle remains the same. The assets you are using are bought and paid for by the owners in order to provide a service to the customers. There is a cost associated with your private use; someone has to pick up the tab - whether that be the owner or the customer.

Point taken.

Greedy, you fraudulent slut!!!!!....get thee to thy corner and think of what you can do to atone.

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RE: !!BUSTED!! Checking CollarMe at work - 11/21/2008 3:30:35 PM

sambamanslilgirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Many companies have strict internet usage rules. Plus the IT department is always going to be able to see where you've been. Asking the boss for rulings about what sites you may or may not use is always a good idea.

so true.

i use to work for an IBM site at the Sear corporate headquarters and have busted Sears employees while upgrading employees' pcs.

one employee was fired for logging over 700 hrs on the Home Shopping Network ...another was fired for hiding porn on the hard drive - this guy thought stuffing it within so many folders that we would never find it ...then there was one top executive who was selling company secrets to a Sears competitor - not only was he fired on the spot but security escorted him out of the building ...his personal stuff (pictures, knick knacks, etc) were mailed to him.

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RE: !!BUSTED!! Checking CollarMe at work - 11/21/2008 4:18:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

Point taken.

Just a spot of friendly advice, GT!

:D

I admit, I am at work now. But THERE IS NOTHING TO DO!! The phone isnt ringing, nobody is waiting to check in, I've done the credit card pre-auths, vacuumed the entry carpets, wiped down the counters, had a long, lovely chat with the production mgr for the bands that are coming in tomorrow, pulled breakfast goodies out of the freezer to thaw, walked around the building to see if any exterior lights are burned out..

There is nothing to do now, except be HERE....LOL

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RE: !!BUSTED!! Checking CollarMe at work - 11/21/2008 8:47:33 PM

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NG and GT very interesting, seemingly opposing viewpoints, neither of which I could effectively argue against.

I was taught that when you work you give it your all, unless you have a REAL reason not to. But then some people are paid at times just to sit there and be ready.

My rate of production has a very direct impact on the company, but there are phones. Some people are hired strictlyto answer the pnones, so what happens if the phine does not ring ?

Similarly, my bosses GF was supposedly on vacation she said, but had to stay home in case they wanted to call her in. He told her that it was not a vacation then. What gray area is that ? Similarly, what about firemen when there is no fire ?

NG I agree completely about the work ethic, but it seems to depend on what kind of job one has. At some jobs you are paid to be at the ready. I am not lucky to have one of those jobs.

GT, get me a job there. Well your job if you would be so kind.

I still don't think I would get on CM at work.

T

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RE: !!BUSTED!! Checking CollarMe at work - 11/21/2008 9:22:51 PM

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Once and only once I logged into the CM message board from work, going through the company's network. Within about 10 minutes the Network manager called me and asked, "What's CollarMe? Your name is coming up all over the place on my scanner."

Apparently the RSS feed hit the network scanner every time the feed rolls over, whether I'm posting or not. I told him there was something funny on a message board that someone linked me to in an email. People have been fired there for stuff like that before. Network guys can see everything you're doing online, if they want to.

I worked for one guy who would randomly target and watch (real time) what people were doing on their computers. He was known to call them into his office with pages of screen shots as evidence. People really need to know their employer's internet policies before taking risks.

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RE: !!BUSTED!! Checking CollarMe at work - 11/21/2008 9:35:40 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
le use, it's strict over here; if you must call friends or whatever, do it in your own time. Quite right, too. Again, it is fraud as someone has to pick up the tab for idle time.

Hi NG,

I work with a group of 3 others and we analyze data all day. Day in, day out, we are looking at thousands upon thousands of lines of data, upwards of 10 hours (or more) a day. The human error rate increases the more tired we get. We have to take frequent "look away" breaks or we would be playing hell trying to correct those errors. About every 45 minutes to an hour, we step away for 5-10 minutes, just to refresh our minds and our vision. Be it a phone call, a quick IM exchange, a walk outside, chatting and laughing together - whatever it may be - we return to our spreadsheets refreshed and ready to dive in again. What you consider fraud, we (and our employer) consider self preservation and preventing burn out.

As long as we are keeping in line with the company's internet protocol, all is well there. One error at that place will cause hours to remedy.

It's all a matter of perspective, I suppose.

I once was the exec assistant for the president of an international firm. Within my first few weeks there, the VP of HR put out a memo to all employees that we could only place personal calls on our breaks (crazy, given most of us were on salary and there all hours of the day anyway - what the hell is a "break?"), and preferably doing so in the lunch room. I asked the president if striped clothing was the dress code because it felt prison-like there, and if he'd prefer me to make all those phone calls required to help him buy property for a winery in Napa...from the break room...?

At least he laughed.

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RE: !!BUSTED!! Checking CollarMe at work - 11/21/2008 9:40:17 PM

BKSir

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After owning a moderately successful company, I can say with 100% certainty, that the employees, myself included, used their computers and the internet for personal reasons. I can also say that I was and still am fine with that. If their work was done, fine, have a ball. Hell, we were 6 people sitting on a T1 connection. I'd fire them for not being the geeks they said they were if they DIDN'T take advantage of that sometimes. Not to mention, even during working on something, if you need a bit of a breather and to let your brain rest or switch tracks for a few minutes, fine, god knows I did.

Now, if they were doing something illegal, or if they were not getting their tasks finished, THEN I'd have cracked down on it. But, as GT said, sometimes, you're just sitting there with nothing to do. And ideas can come from anywhere and everywhere, don't discount what 15 minutes of random dicking around on the web can actually lead to.

Morale is another factor. Little perks like having the freedom to sometimes IM from work, or hit CM, as well as the occassional 'Thank you." or "Good job." go farther towards raising productivity than one can imagine. A happy worker and relaxed worker is a good worker. The productivity is going to be far less for employees who are stressed and worrying that their employer is always staring over their shoulders ready to come down on them like a ton of bricks just because they happen to check an email. It's called 'the human equation'. If we were all machines, then no, we wouldn't need to worry about things like that, and could just drone away at our jobs like the computers we're sitting at, all day, every day, no rest, no breaks, no nothing. But, factor that in, and yes, I'd much rather eat the costs of a few keystrokes and a couple minutes of "God, if I look at this code for another minute I'm going to bash my monitor with a rock. I think I'll go check CM for a moment." It ups productivity, and therefore profit in the long run. Fifteen or twenty minutes of wasted time in one spot leading to relaxation that can lead to an extra two or three extra hours of more productive work is well worth it to me.

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RE: !!BUSTED!! Checking CollarMe at work - 11/21/2008 10:07:04 PM

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I don't check CM at work. I will check my regular email account at times and look at sites like MayoClinic and contact my parents doctors via their medical provider website. I work for local county government and I don't want to lose my job. When I worked for the bank, the IT team would randomly audit computers and as a manager we would get a report of number hours an employee was logged on to internet sites and the sites they were visiting. AND...if they found adult sites and depending on number of hours the employee was counseled with the knowledge that if it continued they could lose their job.

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RE: !!BUSTED!! Checking CollarMe at work - 11/21/2008 11:43:30 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BKSir
Fifteen or twenty minutes of wasted time in one spot leading to relaxation that can lead to an extra two or three extra hours of more productive work is well worth it to me.

That's another great point. We wouldn't possibly be able to pull off 10 hour days if we didn't have the diversions we did. We'd be tired, working slowly because we're tired, and outta there in 8 hours.

You're right, we are not machines. But while many companies really don't care what employees are doing online, most I've worked for do. If unsure, play it safe.

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RE: !!BUSTED!! Checking CollarMe at work - 11/21/2008 11:52:00 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: califsue

the IT team would randomly audit computers and as a manager we would get a report of number hours an employee was logged on to internet sites and the sites they were visiting.

The difficulty with that kind of audit is that many people pull up a site - email, for example, and then leave it up in the background all day. Plus, there are employees whose job it is to be online all day. It is my opinion that the best performance measurement is to measure productivity. If people are producing quality work at a standard rate or higher, then it doesn't really matter that they're checking their email while on the job.

I worked for a CEO whose philosophy was, "We pay you for your performance, not your time." In other words, we received an annual salary for the work we would produce that year. It was up to us to determine our schedules, and we were always held accountable for our output. Whether I'm at work or on vacation, I'm accountable, overall, for my job and the work it entails. So if I screw around for two hours today but work my ass off tomorrow, it's all good, as long as deadlines were met with quality work. Anyone can sit around all day picking their nose with the appropriate programs open. This is where a lot of managers go wrong - they live on false perceptions, rather than reality.

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RE: !!BUSTED!! Checking CollarMe at work - 11/22/2008 3:29:58 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

Point taken.

Just a spot of friendly advice, GT!

:D

I admit, I am at work now. But THERE IS NOTHING TO DO!! The phone isnt ringing, nobody is waiting to check in, I've done the credit card pre-auths, vacuumed the entry carpets, wiped down the counters, had a long, lovely chat with the production mgr for the bands that are coming in tomorrow, pulled breakfast goodies out of the freezer to thaw, walked around the building to see if any exterior lights are burned out..

There is nothing to do now, except be HERE....LOL

You work in a service industry, GT, where customer service is everything. Go and have a chat with the guests; make sure they're settling in ok, and that they have everything they need; better still, have a think about how the hotel can improve its guests to rooms ratio and hand your boss some ideas. Whatever happened to the principles of a boss having his 'pound of flesh'!?

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