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"Settling" - 11/25/2008 7:46:05 PM

Posts: 443
Joined: 9/19/2008
From: (aka LotusSong)
Status: offline

Something has been on my mind… it’s this “humiliation” thing.

A male sub acquaintance... from 12 years ago contacted me to tell me he has a Dom. He found himself a gay Dom after years of not being able to find a femDom. He’s straight. He nervously told me that he is now sucking the Dom’s cock as well as his Dom’s friends. He says he does it for the humiliation. When I asked him if he was happy...he said “well, it fills my needs. I guess I’m bi-sexual now eh?”

This brought a myriad of emotions to me and many questions I will share with you here:

How does it make you feel if someone who is interacting with you because what you have them do is humiliating? Their motive is not to “serve” you but to just do their own thing and you are just the instrument?

Why would a gay guy waste his time on a het male … I mean what if the gay dom starts to develop feelings for him and the guy says... “uhmm.. I’m just here because serving you is feeding my humiliation thing”.

Do guys just do other guys to “get their needs met”?

I guess from a female standpoint, we need a better connection. I guess I’d end up being the “humiliated” one if I found out that I was just the means to the end.

The whole thing just makes me sad for both of them. He wanted the lifestyle so badly…
I guess I’m sad because he settled for what he could get. It makes me sad too, that I was the one who introduced him to the lifestyle realtime.

< Message edited by MistresseLotus -- 11/25/2008 7:56:22 PM >

RE: "Settling" - 11/25/2008 7:57:02 PM

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

Regardless of the jokes, there IS a fetish in the gay community of 'converting' straight guys. So, that could be working here. Also, there is the humiliation fetish...and the vast other amounts of fetishes that are met. I don't think it's a gay thing to have a relationship solely based on fetish fulfillment...we see that plenty in the het community, too.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to MistresseLotus)

RE: "Settling" - 11/25/2008 8:03:46 PM

Posts: 443
Joined: 9/19/2008
From: (aka LotusSong)
Status: offline

I guess I'm sensitive to it because my Gay brother fell in love with a bi-guy. It could be he hoped he could "turn him". After 17 years of having him suck his cock and vice versa.. the guy told him thate he was not really attracted to you.. I'm just here to "get r done". My brother was heartbroken. This is why I will not play games with sexualities.

< Message edited by MistresseLotus -- 11/25/2008 8:05:19 PM >

_____________________________

I leave it to the 20-somethings to do the "open-minded, total unconditional acceptance thing" for it's how THEY learn that all the things others older than they have deemed BS, are in fact BS. What a waste of a decade.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

RE: "Settling" - 11/25/2008 8:11:26 PM

Posts: 180
Joined: 4/7/2007
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I think for me the problem I see in what you explained is the "settling" aspect. Your friend settled for a gay Dom because he could not find what he was looking for. I see this as the main problem because it doesn't seem like he's really happy, he's just doing it because he wants very badly to be dominated and this is the only way he sees he can get that. To me it is the same as when one of my female friends got married to a guy she was not really attracted to or in love with but because he was stable and a good provider and a generally good guy, she "settled" and just married him because she felt like she wasn't ever going to find the right one. I see these situations as similar. The gay Dom may not even be aware of the fact that your friend is settling (but I don't know the situation) or may not care because he is getting what he wants.

(in reply to MistresseLotus)

RE: "Settling" - 11/25/2008 8:12:41 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresseLotus

I guess I'm sensitive to it because my Gay brother fell in love with a bi-guy. It could be he hoped he could "turn him". After 17 years of having him suck his cock and vice versa.. the guy told him thate he was not really attracted to you.. I'm just here to "get r done". My brother was heartbroken. This is why I will not play games with sexualities.

MistresseLotus I really can't shed tears for your brother or his friend.
THEY both got what they wanted.
Many so called "straight" men seem to enjoy a lot of homosexual activities, especially
when they are forced or humilitated!

I am one of these people that feels it is hard to rape the willing.
I think your friend has a gay Dom because he is getting something out of it.
I don't see that as settling, because there are many lines many people won't cross
no matter how lonely they are.
Denial is not just a river in Egypt.
Tell your friend to ENJOY his gay Dom, and live more authentically.

Also, yes Mistress L, many guys do other guys to get their needs met.
What floors me is you didn't already know this?
straight men with gay men is in vogue.
It is all the rage.

I would not feel sorry for your friend, he sounds like he is having the time of his life,
while he is being "humilitated"
...cough, cough.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 11/25/2008 8:20:09 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to MistresseLotus)

RE: "Settling" - 11/25/2008 8:16:51 PM

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Depends on the dynamic. Sometimes I find it really awesome, sometimes I find it annoying.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to MzMia)

RE: "Settling" - 11/25/2008 8:21:51 PM

Posts: 443
Joined: 9/19/2008
From: (aka LotusSong)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresseLotus

I guess I'm sensitive to it because my Gay brother fell in love with a bi-guy. It could be he hoped he could "turn him". After 17 years of having him suck his cock and vice versa.. the guy told him thate he was not really attracted to you.. I'm just here to "get r done". My brother was heartbroken. This is why I will not play games with sexualities.

MistresseLotus I really can't shed tears for your brother or his friend.
THEY both got what they wanted.
Many so called "straight" men seem to enjoy a lot of homosexual activities, especially
when they are forced or humilitated!

I am one of these people that feels it is hard to rape the willing.
I think your friend has a gay Dom because he is getting something out of it.
I don't see that as settling, because there are many lines many people won't cross
no matter how lonely they are.
Denial is not just a river in Egypt.
Tell your friend to ENJOY his gay Dom, and live more authentically.

Also, yes Mistress L, many guys do other guys to get their needs met.
What floors me is you didn't already know this?
straight men with gay men is in vogue.
It is all the rage.

Yep... love is blind as they say. Bro learned a lesson.
Yes, I knew guys did guys to scratch an itch. What an empty existance. I would not have made a very good "guy"!

_____________________________

I leave it to the 20-somethings to do the "open-minded, total unconditional acceptance thing" for it's how THEY learn that all the things others older than they have deemed BS, are in fact BS. What a waste of a decade.

(in reply to MzMia)

RE: "Settling" - 11/25/2008 8:24:54 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

MistressLotus, I have gone down this road 1000 times on here.
If not a million.
I don't believe in forced anything, unless it really is done against your will.
"forced bi" "forced cock sucking" and all such "forced acts" are kinks and fetishes
and or desires.
They are no more forced, than a "forced flogging".
I am still waiting for some one to "force me" to spend all their money.
I believe in "forced acts" also.

I believe in "forced obeying me", "forced giving me anything I want" and I could
go on forever.
I am getting ready to force myself to make a tasty snack.
Then I will come back and force myself to lay around and play online.
May we all be "forced" to do things we enjoy!
weeeeeeeeeeeeee

< Message edited by MzMia -- 11/25/2008 8:29:44 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to MistresseLotus)

RE: "Settling" - 11/25/2008 8:33:17 PM

zenny

Posts: 275
Joined: 2/13/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

MistresseLotus I really can't shed tears for your brother or his friend.
THEY both got what they wanted.
Many so called "straight" men seem to enjoy a lot of homosexual activities, especially
when they are forced or humilitated!

I am one of these people that feels it is hard to rape the willing.
I think your friend has a gay Dom because he is getting something out of it.
I don't see that as settling, because there are many lines many people won't cross
no matter how lonely they are.
Denial is not just a river in Egypt.
Tell your friend to ENJOY his gay Dom, and live more authentically.

Also, yes Mistress L, many guys do other guys to get their needs met.
What floors me is you didn't already know this?
straight men with gay men is in vogue.
It is all the rage.

I would not feel sorry for your friend, he sounds like he is having the time of his life,
while he is being "humilitated"
...cough, cough.

If only gender roles and peoples view of them were so black and white. They are not nor should they ever be assumed as such. Then again most only question or ponder such things as it may affect them.

(in reply to MzMia)

RE: "Settling" - 11/25/2008 8:34:54 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

I needed to add this.

If anyone knows of any straight FEMALE submissive that has taken up
and is in service to a lesbian female Dominant, and is being "forced" to perform oral sex on
her and her girlfriends repeatedly for the sake of humiliation, please let me know.
I would enjoy hearing this type of story {just for a change}!

She will be the 1 female engaged in this activity compared to the millions of men,
that appear to be engaged in this activity.
{Again, that I have ever heard of}

The truth will set you free.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 11/25/2008 8:57:50 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to MistresseLotus)

RE: "Settling" - 11/25/2008 8:45:38 PM

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresseLotus

I guess I'm sensitive to it because my Gay brother fell in love with a bi-guy. It could be he hoped he could "turn him". After 17 years of having him suck his cock and vice versa.. the guy told him thate he was not really attracted to you.. I'm just here to "get r done". My brother was heartbroken. This is why I will not play games with sexualities.

But how you react(ed) to your brother's situation really has nothing to do with anything else and everything to do with what's inside you. Unless the guy has asked for advice, an opinion or an intervention, then you trying to get him to see things your way is all about you feeling better, not empowering him.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to MistresseLotus)

RE: "Settling" - 11/25/2008 9:06:24 PM

Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresseLotus
Something has been on my mind… it’s this “humiliation” thing.
1)How does it make you feel if someone who is interacting with you because what you have them do is humiliating? Their motive is not to “serve” you but to just do their own thing and you are just the instrument?
2)Why would a gay guy waste his time on a het male … I mean what if the gay dom starts to develop feelings for him and the guy says... “uhmm.. I’m just here because serving you is feeding my humiliation thing”.
3)Do guys just do other guys to “get their needs met”?
4)I guess from a female standpoint, we need a better connection. I guess I’d end up being the “humiliated” one if I found out that I was just the means to the end.

I don't know if your friend is settlling or just hasn't made his peace with the holism of his orientation. To answer your questions according to conversations with males, some gay, some bi-, I'll refer to the numbers I've assigned them above and reply:
1)I've never experienced that
2)A lot of gay guys get off on converting 'straight boys'. Also, if it's just a matter of 'itch scratching', a lot don't care about expressed orientation nearly so much as willingness and the requisite body parts.
3)Yeah, sometimes. I had a bf who was a total cum slut. He has sucked hundreds of c*cks and part of what gets him off is the degradation of the anonymity, of the negative thoughts he has behind the act. I found that sad but it is what it is.
4)I wouldn't assume all females need connection. I will say that there was one relationship (Afore-mentioned bf) where I was a means to an end; having been the most desired in poly- relationships prior, it wsa a humbling and humiliating experience and not one I'd care to revisit, to be sure. I dig being wanted. :>
Davan

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
-Leadership527,Jeff

(in reply to MistresseLotus)

RE: "Settling" - 11/25/2008 9:24:15 PM

Alighierisquest

Posts: 58
Joined: 6/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: trealeon

I think for me the problem I see in what you explained is the "settling" aspect. Your friend settled for a gay Dom because he could not find what he was looking for. I see this as the main problem because it doesn't seem like he's really happy, he's just doing it because he wants very badly to be dominated and this is the only way he sees he can get that. To me it is the same as when one of my female friends got married to a guy she was not really attracted to or in love with but because he was stable and a good provider and a generally good guy, she "settled" and just married him because she felt like she wasn't ever going to find the right one. I see these situations as similar. The gay Dom may not even be aware of the fact that your friend is settling (but I don't know the situation) or may not care because he is getting what he wants.

I'll second this. Settling can be a powerful force when you mix things like the depression of not finding someone who meets your needs. Depending on what you want and the perceived availability of it the D/s landscape can look pretty lonely.

_____________________________

"Buying the right computer and getting it to work properly is no more complicated than building a nuclear reactor from wristwatch parts in a darkened room using only your teeth. "
Dave Barry

(in reply to trealeon)

RE: "Settling" - 11/25/2008 9:46:12 PM

Posts: 443
Joined: 9/19/2008
From: (aka LotusSong)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresseLotus

I guess I'm sensitive to it because my Gay brother fell in love with a bi-guy. It could be he hoped he could "turn him". After 17 years of having him suck his cock and vice versa.. the guy told him thate he was not really attracted to you.. I'm just here to "get r done". My brother was heartbroken. This is why I will not play games with sexualities.

But how you react(ed) to your brother's situation really has nothing to do with anything else and everything to do with what's inside you. Unless the guy has asked for advice, an opinion or an intervention, then you trying to get him to see things your way is all about you feeling better, not empowering him.

Master Fire

All I did was listen politely and asked him if he was happy. He was very nervous about the whole thing. I just am not the type to say "kewl for you, dude". Sometimes people feel the need to TMI me :)

It's not so much the act.. but not thinking through things as to how they may affect the other person.

< Message edited by MistresseLotus -- 11/25/2008 9:48:48 PM >

_____________________________

I leave it to the 20-somethings to do the "open-minded, total unconditional acceptance thing" for it's how THEY learn that all the things others older than they have deemed BS, are in fact BS. What a waste of a decade.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

RE: "Settling" - 11/25/2008 9:58:43 PM

Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline

~fr~

I think it's a difficult one to call. The only one who knows for sure how he feels about this is the sub in question.

From my personal perspective, as soon as I've realised I was 'settling' I moved on. But that has its drawbacks too - loneliness being the main one. Most of the motivation for me moving on was my concern for the other person in that relationship, wondering what would happen if in 5 years time they realised how I'd felt the whole time and resented me for stopping their own search for the 'right person'.

The sub will continue with this relationship as long as he can cope with the emotional issues involved. When the negative emotions overwhelm the positives, then hopefully he'll move on. But who knows? Maybe this will turn into a relationship where both find something positive and it turns into a longterm, happy situation.

Whatever the outcome, it sounds like he has at least one good friend looking out for him - he's a lucky man

_____________________________

There's nowt so queer as folk

(in reply to MistresseLotus)

RE: "Settling" - 11/26/2008 6:51:04 AM

Posts: 910
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
If anyone knows of any straight FEMALE submissive that has taken up
and is in service to a lesbian female Dominant, and is being "forced" to perform oral sex on
her and her girlfriends repeatedly for the sake of humiliation, please let me know.
I would enjoy hearing this type of story {just for a change}!

Me too... but i'm not going to unzip in anticipation just yet!

_____________________________

-and the few still remember passion over rage-

(in reply to MzMia)

RE: "Settling" - 11/26/2008 7:20:48 AM

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

I know alot of gay people that will not get involved with bi people. Hell, I know bi people that won't get involved with other bi people. Mostly because they feel they've been burned by someone "going back".

Personally I think the reality is much more simple and falls under the category of "they just weren't that into you". Instead of saying that the relationship with that person wasn't working, it is easier to say that the gender of the person is at fault. OR, that they just purely don't want to be monogamous.

As far as settling, or allowing myself to serve someone that was settling....hell no! I have found that type of thing is pretty obvious, quite quickly. That doesn't mean I am not open to various dynamics because I am. But I will not try to remake myself to have a slave, nor will I allow a slave to serve in body only, just to scratch an itch.

Personally, if two adults go into a situation like you described I have to think that there is no victim. Regardless of the story he tells to try and make it palatable, they both went into it willingly and SHOULD have an idea of what the realities are.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to MistresseLotus)

RE: "Settling" - 11/26/2008 9:48:28 AM

Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline

I've said this before.

I will not compromise myself for the sake of a relationship.
I will not allow someone else to compromise themselves for the sake of a relationship.

Some of the above provide good examples for why I have those rules. Doing so, in my experience, never ends well.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to MistresseLotus)

RE: "Settling" - 11/26/2008 10:07:23 AM

Posts: 443
Joined: 9/19/2008
From: (aka LotusSong)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

I've said this before.

I will not compromise myself for the sake of a relationship.
I will not allow someone else to compromise themselves for the sake of a relationship.

Some of the above provide good examples for why I have those rules. Doing so, in my experience, never ends well.

Janice Joplin is credited with saying "Don't compromise yourself.. you're all you've got".

_____________________________

I leave it to the 20-somethings to do the "open-minded, total unconditional acceptance thing" for it's how THEY learn that all the things others older than they have deemed BS, are in fact BS. What a waste of a decade.

(in reply to Padriag)

RE: "Settling" - 11/26/2008 10:22:29 AM

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresseLotus

How does it make you feel if someone who is interacting with you because what you have them do is humiliating? Their motive is not to “serve” you but to just do their own thing and you are just the instrument?

I don't necessarily see it as this. When I did horribly humiliating things for my former owner, it wasn't because I wanted to feed an internal need to be humiliated. I did it as an expression of my submission and devotion to him. It's not something I would have done for anyone, but because of what he was to me, I was willing to put myself through humiliating experiences. In other words, I felt I couldn't express my love for him deeply enough for my own satisfaction, so if I did was was difficult, he could see what I was willing to do for him. He appreciated such efforts, and it formed a bond that went beyond BDSM play. It worked for us both, not just for him and not just for me.

In reality, any relationship is a means to an end for all parties, isn't it? We view successful relationships as everyone getting what they need from it. If both are getting what they need in this case, are they using each other, or are they sharing something intimate? Is it really for us to judge?

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to MistresseLotus)

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