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RE: Why aren't there stricter protocals in place about ... - 12/11/2008 6:03:27 PM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Doctors lawers, 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I'm just wondering: what are "higher anking american citizens"?

quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

You see it all the time, and the people are higher anking american citizens,  Who;ve been here 20 or 30 years, like doctors, but yet they hardly speak well enough to communicate with their clients, and It got me to wondering, why aren't there stricter rules in place, about people who wish to be citizens being proficient in the launguage of the country, instead of barely passable?


(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Why aren't there stricter protocals in place about ... - 12/11/2008 6:10:32 PM   
LRODANDMASTER


Posts: 161
Joined: 7/13/2005
Status: offline 		SOME A THOSE FORAGERS SPEAK ENGLISH BETTER THEN I DUE

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Why aren't there stricter protocals in place about ... - 12/11/2008 6:19:21 PM   
Kalista07


Posts: 4240
Joined: 7/1/2007
Status: offline 		awww, come on LAM......You know who they are...They're the Doctors, lawyers, and indian chiefs....


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(in reply to LRODANDMASTER)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Why aren't there stricter protocals in place about ... - 12/11/2008 6:31:03 PM   
tsatske


Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline 		YHMA, I can not imagine that the words of your sig line could possibly be any other than your own, since you don't bother to credit anyone.
It really isn't nice to plagerize someone, give no credit, and then, if called on the particulars, say, 'well, it's not my fault, it's that guy I stole it from'. Uh, yeah... right.

like so many other things, this is a free market issue. Do you really want legislation on how well, or how gramaticlly, you have to speak? for real? And you don't see First Amendment issues coming into play here?

I prefer doctors who i know understand the complex issues I have to discuss with them. I used to feel a bit guilty about this - like it was a bit racist - till I had some MARVELOUS doctors who I adored who were not native English speakers. I don't rule out a care giver because of an acent - but if he can't understand where I'm coming from, I find another care giver. The free market takes care of yet another one of lives big problems which just MUST be solved with legilation!

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RE: Why aren't there stricter protocals in place about ... - 12/11/2008 6:34:37 PM   
Kalista07


Posts: 4240
Joined: 7/1/2007
Status: offline 		tsatske i think you may be incorrect in assuming that YHMA knows what the first ammendment is or is about.
Just my thoughts,
Kali


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~~Sweedish Proverb


(in reply to tsatske)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Why aren't there stricter protocals in place about ... - 12/11/2008 6:37:27 PM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		tsake, I asked her privatly, on cmail and she said it was fine to use her signature line, And there's been other statements I've taken from people I have credited. Samba being one of them. She's quoted on my journal.

And sage femme being another.

You simply don't know what you're talking about. It's better off to not assume things you know nothing about.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

YHMA, I can not imagine that the words of your sig line could possibly be any other than your own, since you don't bother to credit anyone.
It really isn't nice to plagerize someone, give no credit, and then, if called on the particulars, say, 'well, it's not my fault, it's that guy I stole it from'. Uh, yeah... right.



< Message edited by YourhandMyAss -- 12/11/2008 6:38:29 PM >

(in reply to tsatske)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Why aren't there stricter protocals in place about ... - 12/11/2008 6:38:01 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		Not being able to understand a paid professional, because of a thick accent, can be a bit frustrating at times, but I don't harbor any resentment about it, or feel that anyone should be forced to speak differently. 

And as far as people who don't speak good English, well, I don't speak good Spanish for example.  Anytime I'm around people who don't speak fluent English, I find it challenging and fun to try to communicate with them, and I find it interesting to learn their language. 
I worked very closely with a couple of Spanish-speaking woman at one time, both with poor English (although one much better than the other), and sometimes they would rattle off into Spanish with each other, then catch themselves and apologize for leaving me out like that.  I would insist that they speak Spanish around me, because I had a desire to learn it.  In turn they started taking an interest in learning better English.  After a while we were rubbing off on each other, and I would speak to them in spanish and they would answer me in English and vice verse.  After about 6 months, I honestly couldn't believe the difference in our ability to communicate together in either language.   I enjoy taking in the language and bits of culture from different ethnicities.  It just feels like a fortunate experience to me.

Ps:  On a side note....for whatever it's worth, I don't think your poor spelling negates the validity of the topic you raised.

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Why aren't there stricter protocals in place about ... - 12/11/2008 6:43:01 PM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Marie, it's not cause a thick accent, she litterally does not understand the words  coming out of your mouth. She litterally  didn't understand what a horse was or what I ride horses ment.  There's a huge difference between accent and not understanding the words you're saying. There are ways around accents, write it down or spell it out.

I don't go so far as to resent them, I just wonder how'd they get to be doctors and lawers and other high powered people when they have such barriers, as not understanding simple meanings of the launguage they took on.


quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

Not being able to understand a paid professional, because of a thick accent, can be a bit frustrating at times, but I don't harbor any resentment about it, or feel that anyone should be forced to speak differently. 

And as far as people who don't speak good English, well, I don't speak good Spanish for example.  Anytime I'm around people who don't speak fluent English, I find it challenging and fun to try to communicate with them, and I find it interesting to learn their language. 
I worked very closely with a couple of Spanish-speaking woman at one time, both with poor English (although one much better than the other), and sometimes they would rattle off into Spanish with each other, then catch themselves and apologize for leaving me out like that.  I would insist that they speak Spanish around me, because I had a desire to learn it.  In turn they started taking an interest in learning better English.  After a while we were rubbing off on each other, and I would speak to them in spanish and they would answer me in English and vice verse.  After about 6 months, I honestly couldn't believe the difference in our ability to communicate together in either language.   I enjoy taking in the language and bits of culture from different ethnicities.  It just feels like a fortunate experience to me.

Ps:  On a side note....for whatever it's worth, I don't think your poor spelling negates the validity of the topic you raised.


(in reply to marie2)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Why aren't there stricter protocals in place about ... - 12/11/2008 6:45:36 PM   
Kalista07


Posts: 4240
Joined: 7/1/2007
Status: offline 		YHMA,
i'm a little confused about your intentions when you posted this..... My confusion comes from the fact that this is, indeed, the second recent post that you've begun to complain about what you catagorize as 'foreingners'.  In case you need some help with your memory, here's the link   http://www.collarchat.com/m_2319218/mpage_3/tm.htm
i think it's mean, rude, and hateful to be so blatantly judgemental. My concern comes in when someone tries to cover up their judgementalness with questions or confusion or curiosity... You can color it however makes you able to sleep at night. Hate is still hate. Wrong is still wrong.  Judgement is still judgment.
Kali


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“Love me when I least deserve it, because that's when I really need it.”
~~Sweedish Proverb


(in reply to marie2)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Why aren't there stricter protocals in place about ... - 12/11/2008 6:48:37 PM   
Daddysredhead


Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
Status: offline 		Maybe you aren't speaking clearly enough.  Why do you assume it's their issue?  

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(in reply to YourhandMyAss)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Why aren't there stricter protocals in place about ... - 12/11/2008 6:50:14 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

Marie, it's not cause a thick accent, she litterally does not understand the words  coming out of your mouth. She litterally  didn't understand what a horse was or what I ride horses ment.  There's a huge difference between accent and not understanding the words you're saying. There are ways around accents, write it down or spell it out.



Maybe the communication problem is on your end.  Especially if you speak as poorly as you write. 

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(in reply to YourhandMyAss)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Why aren't there stricter protocals in place about ... - 12/11/2008 6:50:21 PM   
Daddysredhead


Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

You can color it however makes you able to sleep at night. Hate is still hate. Wrong is still wrong.  Judgement is still judgment.


I think the color must be white. 

_____________________________

Founding Member, Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's

Do not challenge me to a battle of wits & come to fight unarmed.

Are you really that stupid? ~ Bless your heart

13th doughnut


(in reply to Kalista07)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Why aren't there stricter protocals in place about ... - 12/11/2008 6:51:11 PM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		I don't think it's hatefullness to be curious about how someone can become a doctor, and still have some awful trouble speaking the launguage of the country they applied for citizenship for.

If you can not understand basic english, like I like to ride horses and I fell off my horse and was badly hurt* Which she had no clue what I was talking about and didn't know what a horse was* How do you become a doctor, or how do you be in this country for so long and still not know the basics, like what horses are?

If you consider it hateful, that's fine.  However I don't feel it's rude or hateful, and I don't need to"cover it up" to feel fine with my question.

I am judgmental, yes I think if you're going to be a doctor in America, you should speak english well enough to not have the issue of launguage barriers, And the rest of my family feel the same way. Same way if a American wanted to go to Japan and be a doctor, I'd expect the same thing from them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

YHMA,
i'm a little confused about your intentions when you posted this..... My confusion comes from the fact that this is, indeed, the second recent post that you've begun to complain about what you catagorize as 'foreingners'.  In case you need some help with your memory, here's the link   http://www.collarchat.com/m_2319218/mpage_3/tm.htm
i think it's mean, rude, and hateful to be so blatantly judgemental. My concern comes in when someone tries to cover up their judgementalness with questions or confusion or curiosity... You can color it however makes you able to sleep at night. Hate is still hate. Wrong is still wrong.  Judgement is still judgment.
Kali


(in reply to Kalista07)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Why aren't there stricter protocals in place about ... - 12/11/2008 6:52:11 PM   
BitchGoddessD


Posts: 391
Joined: 4/15/2007
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline 		I am extremely grateful that I live in a city with a well-known university hospital that attracts many people of different languages and culture.  I don't care how good someone's english is when there are so many here that need the expertise they offer.  I could barely communicate with the doctor who bypassed my mom's 90% blocked aorta.  However 15 yrs later my ma's still here thanks to him.  

Remember that communication is a two-way street.   If you don't at least try, you may be the one losing out.

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(in reply to marie2)
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RE: Why aren't there stricter protocals in place about ... - 12/11/2008 6:53:42 PM   
tsatske


Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline 		YHMA - request a different doctor/lawyer/Indian chief.
Walk out of the office and pick up a phone book and look under 'beggar men' and call one and make an appointment.

or ask if you can speak to a supervisor and say, 'I need another Indian chief, this one can not seem to understand me, and they are not going to be able to take care of me well if they don't know what I am talking about.'

I am sure you will point out that some people, in the particular case of doctors, lawyers and Indian chiefs, more so than candlemakers or beggarmans or thief, do not get to chose their own.

However, if you ask to speak to a hospital or clinic supervisor, or speak to your judge, you CAN demand another if you can not communicate with yours, language wise.

Did I mention the free market aspect here?

Oh, btw - if you asked for permission, and she did not want accreditation, then, true, it is not plagiarized. However, You did decide to put it on your sigline, uncredited. It is fine to do so, since you had the authors permission, but still your decision - so, it is still silly to fall back on blaming an uncredited author for mistakes, when you are using it as your own, up to being called on mistakes. its a bit felicitous, if you ask me, which no one did.

_____________________________

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(in reply to YourhandMyAss)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Why aren't there stricter protocals in place about ... - 12/11/2008 6:54:41 PM   
Kalista07


Posts: 4240
Joined: 7/1/2007
Status: offline 		damn...i knew there was a reason i couldn't relate.....

OMG...Funny story.... One of the counselor's that i supervise is from hungry (or Russia or some damn where) and she taught herself English when they moved over to the United States. So, we were all in staffing one day and she said that a female client had called a male client a "cock something". I quickly (apparently too quickly and too excitedly) said "A cocksucker??!!" Everyone at the table stared at me a few minutes...Anywhooo, she eventually asked what the words that would offend men the most were i told her it would be cocksucker and then i proceeded onto explain to her that for a lot of women it would be cunt...You know, just trying to be my ever-helpful self... It cracked me up that we had to explain to her why people would be so offended by such words....
Sorry to derail from the topic on hand....Who are we judging now?
Kali


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“Love me when I least deserve it, because that's when I really need it.”
~~Sweedish Proverb


(in reply to Daddysredhead)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Why aren't there stricter protocals in place about ... - 12/11/2008 6:54:44 PM   
MySweetSubmssive


Posts: 1139
Joined: 2/7/2006
From: Lehigh Valley, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

You see it all the time, and the people are higher anking american citizens,  Who;ve been here 20 or 30 years, like doctors, but yet they hardly speak well enough to communicate with their clients, and It got me to wondering, why aren't there stricter rules in place, about people who wish to be citizens being proficient in the launguage of the country, instead of barely passable?


No doubt this has already been said in the thread, but why should we expect "foreigners" (hi, are you Native American?) to be able to treat the English language well, when people who are native speakers of English can't or don't bother? 

While I don't make a practice of expressing my freakiness about the lack of literacy of some folks on the boards (spelling, grammar, etc) and the dumbing down of "Americans," I find it ironic and funny that you complain about not being able to understand others when your own language skills are sub-par.  Kettle, allow me to introduce you to pot.

Mss

< Message edited by MySweetSubmssive -- 12/11/2008 6:57:37 PM >

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RE: Why aren't there stricter protocals in place about ... - 12/11/2008 6:55:03 PM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Because I speak slowly and clearly, and have slowly and clearly repeated myself, and she still didn't know what a horse was, untill I pointed to the calander on the wall, that had a pic of a horse.

Then and only then, did she understand what a horse is. And what I ride horses mean.

I do agree somethings could be the fault of the person speaking, but if you're not garbling your words, and are speaking plainly and enunciating, and they still don't get it? No, it's not the fault of the speaker I don't feel.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddysredhead

Maybe you aren't speaking clearly enough.  Why do you assume it's their issue?  

(in reply to Daddysredhead)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Why aren't there stricter protocals in place about ... - 12/11/2008 6:55:06 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		If I was a doctor, accountant or some other self-employed business professional earning my living in America, I would make it a point to learn English.  But I guess not everyone feels the same way, or would like to only cater to those of the same ethnic background.  I do see a lot of that.

Fortunately, we have plenty of options when choosing the professionals whom we wish to patronize.  It's easier to chose an English-speaking doctor, for example, than to expect a foreign-speaking one to conform to our expectations.

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Why aren't there stricter protocals in place about ... - 12/11/2008 6:55:17 PM   
DomMeinCT


Posts: 2355
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		Well, the answer to your question is take the "true" American way and let Capitalism decide.  :)

Assuming that your "high ranking Americans" who don't speak English well are self employed, the market will decide whether they are successful, if their patients and clients stay or go.  My guess is that your doctor has a clientele that not only understands her accent, but may also prefer her bilingual abilities.

You have the choice to stay with her and complain, or vote with your feet and find another doctor. 

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(in reply to YourhandMyAss)
Profile   Post #: 80
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