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RE: CMs safer than CL for BDSM! - 12/17/2008 5:09:17 AM

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Prostitution should not be illegal. period
Sex workers should know they can and feel comfortable about reporting any sort of crime against them. period.

That said, often both in being a lawyer and being a sex worker, you deal with people who have done or want to do things you yourself wouldn't. But you're willing for various economic and social needs reasons to extend your services to. If I were to hire a sex worker or a lawyer (both of which seem to get about $300 an hour around here), I'd want one who: a) knew the current state of the law; b)was experienced enough in the area I was hiring them for to be ready to deal with the sort of events and surprises likely to come up in that sort of matter - in the court or motel room - and c) knew enough about their own capabilities and areas of expertise that if my "problem" didn't fit their "expertise" or skills, they'd turn me down at the outset, rather than take my $300 retainer and try to muddle through.

If you take my case (and money) anyway and screw it up, don't be surprised if the courts, after finding against me, don't have much sympathy for you in my malpractice action.

(in reply to califsue)

RE: CMs safer than CL for BDSM! - 12/17/2008 6:29:20 AM

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This is not coming from a holier than thou standpoint.

There are a lot of folks who think prostitution should be legal in the 49 states that it isn't. Come to think of it, a lot of people think certain substances should be legalized as well. They aren't. The fact of the matter is that, if a person wanted to obtain a certain substance that isn't at your local drug store, they have to associate with someone who is willing to sell that certain substance, even though they know that they are breaking the law and commiting a crime in doing so. Now, if said criminal person has no respect for breaking one law, why should they care if they are breaking another?

In other words, anyone selling sexual acts for money already knows they are dealing with the criminal element at the outset. This is exactly why incidents are so much higher against people who work in this area. You already know you are dealing with people who don't have an issue with taking their gamble at getting away with breaking the law.

I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying there's some truth to the old adage that a sheep has safer places to be than the wolves den.

< Message edited by LadyPact -- 12/17/2008 6:30:15 AM >

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to WalterRego)

RE: CMs safer than CL for BDSM! - 12/17/2008 6:36:53 AM

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The only reason that incidents are higher against providers, especially the women who work in the street, is that the agrressors KNOW they can get away with it. Paying for sex/companionship/happyfunsexy time doesn't make someone a bad person.

There's massive amounts of research backing it up.

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(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: CMs safer than CL for BDSM! - 12/17/2008 7:07:47 AM

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I'd be happy to look at some, lynnxz, but I'd still stand firm on the notion that people who are willing to commit a crime are more likely to be willing to commit another one. It might be a rather simplistic way of looking at it, but if someone's already getting away with one, they may figure it would be just as easy to get away with another. Maybe even more so because they are already in the same circumstances. They are already planning on getting away with act number one, so they might be more compelled to believe that they are going to get away with act number two. Which might be boiling down us saying the same thing, if you think about it.

Paying for sex may not make someone a bad person, but it doesn't necessarily make them a good person either. Unless we're talking about this same transaction being undertaken in NV, most people do know it's against the law. Whether they believe it's a silly law or not doesn't really have much to do with it. That is the way it's written for now.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Lynnxz)

RE: CMs safer than CL for BDSM! - 12/17/2008 7:09:35 AM

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Lady Pact, I respect you a lot, but you're not seeing this right. Let's broaden this out a bit. My own political analysis includes the positions that the US should remove its soldiers from both Iraq and the DMZ, and that a lot of humanitarian tragedies occur because those soldiers are still there. I imagine you and your family members might disagree with me, but the bottom line is that that's neither here nor there, because I am capable of separating my analysis of society from my concern for individuals. I hope every single US soldier comes home safely, and returns to a welcoming environment.

Some people are not capable of making that separation. They spit or shout names like "babykiller" at men who were doing the best they could in situations that were extreme, unmanageable, and far bigger than the human beings engulfed by them. Well, there's an economic crisis in this country right now, and the media are starting to admit that it has been going on for a long time. And hunger and poverty chew people up, very much like knowing you're about to go into combat yet again.

I see no reason to pick on someone for making the best choices they know how to make, given the increasingly grave economic pressures more and more of us are under.

The barbarities of war are seldom committed by abnormal men. The tragedy of war is that these horrors are committed by normal men in abnormal situations. -- Breaker Morant

The same is true of normal women in abnormal economic situations.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to Lynnxz)

RE: CMs safer than CL for BDSM! - 12/17/2008 7:53:04 AM

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You know, until 1998, Sodomy was illegal in the state of Georgia, punishable by various fines. There's even been a couple cases in recent years where it's been used, usually to prosecute gay sex workers.

So... by that law, anal and oral sex was illegal... does that make people who enjoy those activites more likely to commit violent crimes?

Paying someone for sex is a non violent 'crime'. When that person decides to beat the sex worker, rape them, or abuse them, it's an entirely different mindset.

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HBIC

(in reply to RedMagic1)

RE: CMs safer than CL for BDSM! - 12/17/2008 8:05:12 AM

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Red, you know I respect you as well, but your analogy is so far reaching that it is almost laughable. Do you really want to compare the despair of war to someone who decided that being in the sex industry was the best way to pay her college bills? You're talking a whole different ballgame between someone who may have to take some time off from her higher education and somebody who's in a foreign country being shot at. Funny thing about the military. Once you've signed up, they don't just let you decide to change your mind one day.

I'm sorry, but I can't possibly see My way past the incredible difference between those very extreme circumstances of fighting for survival during war, and whether a person can finance their college education or not. An economic crisis is just not the same as bullets whizzing by your head. Walking into a job environment, rather than a university, is nothing like walking through a village in enemy territory. I'm betting Ann Arbor, MI has a lot more resources than a soldier on the battlefield in Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, or Afghanistan.

I don't want to go so far as to say that it's a bit insulting that you would see the sacrifice a soldier makes in serving the country, what they have to experience while we are all here enjoying our freedoms, because it is compared to a college student deciding to earn $300.00 to pay her bills. Somehow, it's very close to it. Are you really considering the contributions by sex workers to be the same as those who serve in the military?

By the way, we wouldn't disagree in our opinions that those serving in certain locations across the globe should be brought home. That same discussion has been held in this very house. Every day, it affects this family. While I sit here with just 25 hours left before My husband's plane lands so he can spend a month home on leave, I have the past seven months to have wished that each day. A month from now when he returns to his duty station, I will wish it again. Just the same as I did twelve hours ago, when I found out officially that clip will be deployed again for the fourth time. Back to the catbox, as he calls it. I'll bet the view of the world looks a lot different there than it does from a classroom.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to RedMagic1)

RE: CMs safer than CL for BDSM! - 12/17/2008 8:09:53 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

You know, until 1998, Sodomy was illegal in the state of Georgia, punishable by various fines. There's even been a couple cases in recent years where it's been used, usually to prosecute gay sex workers.

So... by that law, anal and oral sex was illegal... does that make people who enjoy those activites more likely to commit violent crimes?

Paying someone for sex is a non violent 'crime'. When that person decides to beat the sex worker, rape them, or abuse them, it's an entirely different mindset.

And I'm not saying that violent crime is justifiable. What I'm saying is in that industry, a person has got to know that the risk for such a crime is higher. We are talking about a law student here.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Lynnxz)

RE: CMs safer than CL for BDSM! - 12/17/2008 8:20:11 AM

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I believe you are misunderstanding me, but I don't want to pursue it here. Someday we'll meet in real life, and we can give this the emotional depth it deserves. I will clarify that I don't mean to equate the despair of war with college. My point is that the issue isn't "college," it's having a "way out." The similarity in the two situations is that people (rightly or wrongly) believe there is no other way out of the desperate situation they are in. I don't wish in any way to trivialize the sacrifice of people risking their lives every day.

I won't post again on this thread. I hope you have a great day.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: CMs safer than CL for BDSM! - 12/17/2008 9:11:15 AM

AStudyInScarlet

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Joined: 10/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

What I'm saying is in that industry, a person has got to know that the risk for such a crime is higher.

i think we all agree that the risk is higher, and there's a good reason for that. that doesn't mean they should accept it and take it lying down. cops know they have a higher risk of being shot. doesn't make it ok or any less of a crime.

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: CMs safer than CL for BDSM! - 12/17/2008 9:14:45 AM

AStudyInScarlet

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prostitution is a state law carrying pretty light sentences. it's not in any way considered a serious crime, and certainly not violent. the law, and forensic psychology, distinguishes between the severity and quality of crimes. a person who runs red lights and parks in handicapped spots is not likely to make the jump to strangling people, even though they are both against the law.

(in reply to AStudyInScarlet)

RE: CMs safer than CL for BDSM! - 12/17/2008 2:58:01 PM

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Before anybody wants to get a noose to hang Me with, let Me clarify a couple of things.

First, I think the conversation has strayed a bit in comparison of crimes. I am neither comparing prostitution to neither a violent crime, nor to running a red light. The second of which, I think, doesn't apply any more than the more violent crimes that were talked of above. A person can run a red light without intending to. You can't exactly "accidentally" engage in prostitution.

The other part of this is, even if this gal felt she was in bad enough a situation to need to do this, rather than just get a job for a while, exactly what is the professor's excuse?

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to AStudyInScarlet)

RE: CMs safer than CL for BDSM! - 12/17/2008 5:35:21 PM

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Heterosexual and homosexual sodomy are both against the law here in TX. It is also a felony to own more than 5 or 6, I can't remember the exact number, of dildos, as dildos are illegal here and if you own more than 5 or 6 you are presumed to have the intent to distribute. Last I heard it was still against the law to be gay here (not to perform any acts, but just simply to be gay).

I'm afraid I break laws often.

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: CMs safer than CL for BDSM! - 12/18/2008 8:27:44 AM

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But would you go to the local authorities, moonvine, to report the theft by a villainous would-be Dominant of the batteries for your dildo collection?

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A person should not choose the form in which he wishes to perform the service, but he should perform it in any manner the opportunity affords. He should be like a vessel into which anything may be poured - wine, milk, or water.
-Abraham Joshua Heschel

(in reply to moonvine)

RE: CMs safer than CL for BDSM! - 12/18/2008 3:35:03 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WalterRego

But would you go to the local authorities, moonvine, to report the theft by a villainous would-be Dominant of the batteries for your dildo collection?

Would she report a man for raping her vaginally, if she only agreed to anal sex?

Granted, the police aren't going to enforce this law, unless it is something tacked onto a rape charge; ie: you just got charged with rape AND sodomy.

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HBIC

(in reply to WalterRego)

RE: CMs safer than CL for BDSM! - 12/21/2008 3:18:15 PM

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The problem here that everyone seems to have missed is that they were both from the University of Michigan.

As we Spartans would say -- Friends don't let friends become Wolverines.

(in reply to Lynnxz)

RE: CMs safer than CL for BDSM! - 12/22/2008 12:23:27 PM

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Legalize!

(in reply to WalterRego)

RE: CMs safer than CL for BDSM! - 12/28/2009 10:36:18 AM

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Prostitution is illegal, meeting someone in a hotel room you found on any site is stupid, on both their parts. Going to the police was immature for something like a slap in the face. Anyone who wants to jump on a bandwagon about this being some horrid assault apparently has their own issues about things. I agree that if the student needs money, try stripping or some other legal means of income. Maybe sex for money doesn't make you bad person, but it's a fact that it spreads disease, and in this case, blew apart a person's life. He is a victim here too, but stupid. The laws and rules about sex between students and professors is to protect students from predatory instructors who can have such an effect on a person's future. This woman is the one that was in the wrong, she should have sucked it up, learned a lesson about being a complete dumbass, count herself lucky it was only a slap, that the person was actually who they claimed to be, and not a true predator, or two or fifteen. Sex workers take risks, sex workers do cause damage in this world, it is not a vitimless crime as so many claim. This woman's complaint took time away from true victims and she sounds like a big spoiled baby. Victimless? I doubt that man feels this was victimless. Just another case of someone agreeing to more than they can handle. I would bet that sex workers who have truly been assaulted and victimized would like to slap this woman's face too.

(in reply to MissEnchanted)

RE: CMs safer than CL for BDSM! - 12/28/2009 2:10:10 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LinnaeaBorealis

I'm with you, Red & Lynnx. There are a lot of people who don't have experience who seem to find themselves qualified to talk about how bad it is to perform certain acts. When I was a much younger woman, I worked in the sex trades. One night I was raped & my rapist told me he would be back to rape me again. I thought for about 20 seconds about going to the police to ask for protection. Then I realized that getting raped once in an evening was quite enough. I didn't wish to go be emotionally & verbally raped by the constabulary. They wouldn't have taken me seriously & would have told me that I was "asking for it" because of my profession. I had nowhere to turn but to myself.

How sad that 40 years later, this is still the case. Sex trade workers are viewed as "less than" when it comes to human & civil rights. None of us have a clue why people are out there working in the profession & they certainly should be afforded the basic protection that the rest of us take for granted. Just because you have never been there, doesn't mean that you have anything to feel superior about. Nor do you have the right to call this person stupid or laugh at her. Maybe once you have walked a mile in her shoes...

RedMagic, your sig line says it all.

Or maybe, just maybe...This could be used as a nice story about how not to let yourself get caught up in the fucked up business of selling your body.

Every stripper and prostitute I have ever heard about seems to be well on their way through med school. Such a shame when they end up in landfills, our rivers or dumpsters.

I can not imagine how many times a detective has standed over the decaying corpse of a sex worker only to say these final sad words..."And she was going to be an anesthesiologist."

It's all so horrible.

_____________________________

(in reply to LinnaeaBorealis)

RE: CMs safer than CL for BDSM! - 12/28/2009 10:35:08 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AStudyInScarlet

prostitutes are raped and assaulted all the time and don't report it because of assholes like this.

No, it's because of assholes who don't campaign to legalize prostitution.

See, fact of the matter is that, assuming everything checks out, she was raped in the course of committing a crime. That, in and of itself, is a ridiculous thing, making prostitution illegal, but that's how it is, and there's no way to give the full details of the rape without admitting to a crime in the process. Obviously, admitting to a crime has problems, and expecting sympathy for an unexpected but plausible outcome of a crime isn't the easiest way to garner sympathies.

Prostitution is still legal where I live, but hiring a prostitute is not, so now they only get the hard core clients, the ones that don't care if they're breaking the law. Competition hardens, with prices dropping and limits being forfeited. Just like they told the women's rights groups that pushed for the law in the first place. Now, they don't dare report anything but the most serious crimes against them, for fear of losing their clients or being forced to reveal their clients (while the act of prostitution is legal, not disclosing your clients if the police asks is aiding and abetting). When prostitution itself is a crime, as in the US, then things get even worse.

Anyone who is qualified to vote, knows how this works and either sanctions it, works to legalize it, or cares more about other issues. I would hazard a guess that prostitutes rank very low on most people's lists of what they care about, as evidenced by the lack of large campaigns to legalize it, the lack of candidates that build their political platform on it, and the lack of any other sign that anyone cares about it.

("I wish it were different" doesn't qualify as caring about anything.)

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to AStudyInScarlet)

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