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More Masters than Mistresses - 12/30/2005 5:12:54 AM   
LostChance


Posts: 11
Joined: 6/5/2005
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Studying the post at this board gives me the impression, that there are far more Masters than Mistresses existing. Moreover it seems that a lot of Ladies are lucky with their submissive lifestyle. Regarding emancipation this is not logical for me!

richard
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RE: More Masters than Mistresses - 12/30/2005 5:19:58 AM   
MstrssPassion


Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
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factor this into your equation...

Many of these men who identify as dominants contact the female dominants on a regular basis & whisper to us.... pssst, I know my profile says dominant, but I'm really submissive.

I'm sure there are many women's profiles doing the same thing.



_____________________________

MstrssPassion


(in reply to LostChance)
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RE: More Masters than Mistresses - 12/30/2005 5:40:23 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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Everywhere in our society women have the upper hand in the numbers game when it comes to relationships. It sucks but it's true. Now numbers don't equal quality.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to LostChance)
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RE: More Masters than Mistresses - 12/30/2005 5:47:10 AM   
MHOO314


Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssPassion

factor this into your equation...

Many of these men who identify as dominants contact the female dominants on a regular basis & whisper to us.... pssst, I know my profile says dominant, but I'm really submissive.





or... for you I would submit

And that happens alot!


_____________________________

SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor


(in reply to MstrssPassion)
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RE: More Masters than Mistresses - 12/30/2005 7:40:20 AM   
KevinS


Posts: 24
Joined: 12/18/2004
Status: offline
The sociological distribution in the Het scene is indeed not in the male submissive's favour.

A few years back (no link, sorry), I believe it was Eulenspiegel that made a serious efort to provide some sort of evaluation of the distribution curve across the Het BDSM scene, as far as ratios and what not.

The results?
For every male Top/Dominant, there were 3 female Bottom/Submissives.
For every female Top/Mistress, there were well over 100 male Bottom/Submissives.

That helps to explain the economic/sociologic forces that create things such as demand for Pro Dommes: if you're serious about BDSM as a need, and you've got a 1 in 100 shot at finding a partner, paying for it suddenly makes a lot more sense.

In my experience, there are indeed, as referred to in this thread, many Submissive men who recast themselves as Dominants, or at least as Switches, in order to find a partner that they might be able to get some play with. I know numerous examples of this that I've personally met.

The nightmare scenario one can predict, which I have seen at least three times, is that such a man partners up with a Submissive female, who has recast herself as a Dominant Switch in order to enjoy the ratio as well, and they find themselves as two misadvertised frustrated submissives, each eager to have the other one top them that night, and both pretty miserable.

_____________________________

"If one man wants another man dead badly enough, he'll find a way to kill him.
If he happens to be wealthy and psychotic, then this poses less problems than it would for most people."
- John Brizzolara

(in reply to MHOO314)
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RE: More Masters than Mistresses - 12/30/2005 7:56:39 AM   
LadyKim


Posts: 191
Joined: 11/11/2004
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LostChance,

While there are a lot of men who are truly dominant by nature, there are also men who are truly submissive but got tired of looking for a Domme. The men in the latter group have assumed the title or dominant hoping to find a female submissive that they can direct to do to them what they want a dominant woman to do.

To be fair, it isn't just the men that do that. I've had submissives tell me that they started out talking with a woman that appeared to be very dominant, but in the end turned the tables on them.

Also, there are a lot of people who really fall in the switch category; however, since consistancy is usually preferred they choose to put themselves in the category they feel represents them MOST of the time.

(in reply to LostChance)
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RE: More Masters than Mistresses - 12/30/2005 8:23:50 AM   
LadyKim


Posts: 191
Joined: 11/11/2004
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A dominant male friend of mine is fond of saying, "It isn't fair. Women control 50% of the money in the world, and 100% of the pussy." While his favorite complaint is funny, it is also pretty accurate.

Of course, both men and women are sexual beings who like to have sex because it feels good; however, there are different underlying thought processes that are apparent when studying evolution. Now, I am not saying these thought processes are on a concious level, but if you look at the history of sexuality (human and animal) they are there.

Basically, males want to be considered virile. While having variety in sexual partners keeps things interesting and fresh, it also increases the gene pool giving them a better chance of having future generations with a little bit of themselves passed down over time.

While females also enjoy interesting and fresh sexual experiences, they are the keepers of the gene pool which boils down to being selective with who they allow to engage in those interesting and fresh sexual experiences with them. No, I'm not saying males do not have criteria for who they will have sex with, but females place a higher value to the criteria in general.

In caveman days, a woman depended on a man for food and shelter, so she sought someone she felt would be a good provider for her and her children. In the animal kingdom, males have various ways to attract a females favor or attention. In modern times, women seek men they consider intelligent, responsible, engaging, and full of potential. Yes, attraction plays a part in it for everyone; however, we all have different things we consider 'attractive'.

Think about your mailbox on here. How many men are usually contacted first by females? How many women require the man to make first contact? How many women require the man to make more than just one contact before considering communication with him?

Ultimately, females determine when consentual sex will occur, so they don't have to be as aggressive when seeking potential partners, subs, or dominants. Now, that does not mean the woman are not the aggressors in the bedroom!!!! That is purely personal preference!!!


Just my two and a half cents!
MzKim

(in reply to LadyKim)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: More Masters than Mistresses - 12/30/2005 8:37:42 AM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
Dominant, Submissive, Switch.... Hell it's a catagory *we* choose for ourself.
We each got our reasons, everybody see's it differently. I'll fess up here,
in my daily life, like many others who have worn a badge that say's Sub
nobody would ever guess it, i'm up front, take charge grab it and growl
for the most part. I've termed myself submissive because when I'm in
a relationship that is the place that feeds me. Yet every relationship is
different, the interactions results are what I look for. Or in other words
if I find I'm the one doing the Domming I'm not getting fed and I go poof.
It's been said a million times that no one is always the same with everyone.
It the individual and the chemistry that makes it.

Q

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to LostChance)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: More Masters than Mistresses - 12/30/2005 8:52:41 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LostChance

Studying the post at this board gives me the impression, that there are far more Masters than Mistresses existing. Moreover it seems that a lot of Ladies are lucky with their submissive lifestyle. Regarding emancipation this is not logical for me!

richard


There is a HUGE difference between being able to chose to submit than having society tell you that you must because of your sex, gender, age, race, etc.

However I think we are still very much in a culture where male domination is preceived as more normal and natural and therefore it is much easier to be a male top than a female top. I think its also easier to be a female submissive than a male submissive because of these cultural expectation.

And before anyone counters with "Feminism" I'll say that I believe that feminism (in its various forms and philosophies) is a social movement it is not society or culture. Some women indeed feel a conflict between their own feminism (if they see themselves as feminist at all -- most folks probably don't define themselves by such "isms") and submissive BDSM feelings. That can certainly cause confusion and anxiety and I by no means wish to ignore that in my above generalizations.

As a personal note, I have never felt odd about being dominant and female. Indeed my greatest anxieties come from being raised to not be dominant and having to find myself in the midst of my upbringing. Happily I am through most of these issues.


< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 12/30/2005 8:53:27 AM >


_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to LostChance)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: More Masters than Mistresses - 12/30/2005 8:57:26 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyKim

LostChance,

While there are a lot of men who are truly dominant by nature, there are also men who are truly submissive but got tired of looking for a Domme. The men in the latter group have assumed the title or dominant hoping to find a female submissive that they can direct to do to them what they want a dominant woman to do.

To be fair, it isn't just the men that do that. I've had submissives tell me that they started out talking with a woman that appeared to be very dominant, but in the end turned the tables on them.

Also, there are a lot of people who really fall in the switch category; however, since consistancy is usually preferred they choose to put themselves in the category they feel represents them MOST of the time.


Purely from my observations in life, I believe that most people are more naturally "followers" than "leaders" or "loners". It could be that some people then transfer these general social dynamics into BDSM. It could be that some try to use BDSM to experience the other side.

Please remember too that while we on this board may be comfortable saying "I'm kinky" or "I'm into BDSM" or whatever, it was a process for many of us to get to this level of confort. There are probably many many more folks who are not and will not achieve this level. I've heard "vanilla" people talk about things they do and like that I personally consider similiar to what we do but if you asked "are you a dominant/submissive" or "are you kinky" they flip out and deny it.



_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to LadyKim)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: More Masters than Mistresses - 12/30/2005 9:01:36 AM   
LadyKim


Posts: 191
Joined: 11/11/2004
Status: offline
thetammyjo,

I agree that we all have to come to acceptance of who we are and what makes us tick in our own time. We all have different ways of getting there too. It is natural. I was merely pointing out what I have seen over the years I've been in the lifestyle.

MzKim

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: More Masters than Mistresses - 12/30/2005 9:05:01 AM   
DelRey


Posts: 314
Joined: 12/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KevinS

The sociological distribution in the Het scene is indeed not in the male submissive's favour.

A few years back (no link, sorry), I believe it was Eulenspiegel that made a serious efort to provide some sort of evaluation of the distribution curve across the Het BDSM scene, as far as ratios and what not.

The results?
For every male Top/Dominant, there were 3 female Bottom/Submissives.
For every female Top/Mistress, there were well over 100 male Bottom/Submissives.



First in line at the window
, I'm cashing out, I'll take my three right now please !!! or just one good slave !

He heeeeee

del Rey



< Message edited by DelRey -- 12/30/2005 9:09:55 AM >

(in reply to KevinS)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: More Masters than Mistresses - 12/30/2005 9:10:58 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyKim

thetammyjo,

I agree that we all have to come to acceptance of who we are and what makes us tick in our own time. We all have different ways of getting there too. It is natural. I was merely pointing out what I have seen over the years I've been in the lifestyle.

MzKim


I was basically agreeing with you, I think. Just moving things beyond the those all ready in the kinky committee into the general population.



_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to LadyKim)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: More Masters than Mistresses - 12/30/2005 2:22:45 PM   
seaturtle50


Posts: 382
Joined: 12/28/2005
Status: offline
I must say that I find LadyKim's insight to be exactly on the money where I and my "feelings" are concerned. (Thank you LadyKim)

In my everyday life I am a natural and strong leader. I also tend to have be that same way in most of my relationships, or at most times during those relationships.

However, in my case, I am Dom only because I have found that the woman who can naturally compel me to surrender to her is so very rare.

I should say - I pretty much dislike "bedroom games" of D/s. I am most driven by the "need" that if felt/shared between my partner, and myself is so very intoxicating to me. While most all women I have been with like to play at it - she is very rare indeed (so far in my RL estimation) who truly needs to.

So I have been Dom. I consider myself quite good at it, and there are many aspects of this that I am no longer certain I could or would wish to live without. However, that said, to me - my ultimate deliverance would be to not only meet, but become so compelled by one woman’s inner strength and beauty that I would be left with no choice but to surrender to her. To surrender utterly!

So, I do seek out subs, a perfect little sub girl. (Although I also find in this regard that no matter how much they confess otherwise - the average sub girl is really just looking to get off once in a while on her fantasy of what surrender of will means to her). I am not knocking this either - just the lack of ones awareness of self in this regard. Or is it a lack of true self-honesty?

It is all good, each of these "relationships" has added to my own awareness and understanding. So therefore all good.

Call me a switch I suppose. And maybe that is really the best of all possible outcomes. For some reason I find that I do not want to examine (yet) my own switching ability. While I find this interesting on the surface, ultimately this bothers me for some reason I have not yet looked too closely at. Might be that in truth, my need to submit to her is immense.

seaturtle





(in reply to LostChance)
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RE: More Masters than Mistresses - 12/30/2005 5:01:52 PM   
MysticalPhoenix


Posts: 212
Joined: 11/30/2005
From: Kelloggsville, Vanilla County MI
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KevinS

The sociological distribution in the Het scene is indeed not in the male submissive's favour.

The results?
For every male Top/Dominant, there were 3 female Bottom/Submissives.
For every female Top/Mistress, there were well over 100 male Bottom/Submissives.


Based on what I've seen in the scene, I'd say that's pretty accurate. You don't see a lot of unattached female subs who are looking for a Master, but you have to wade through throngs of unattached male subs looking for a Mistress.

Talk about a buyer's market. It's good to be a Dominant Female!


_____________________________

---------------------------------------------------------
Every one sees what you appear to be, few really know what you are.

(in reply to KevinS)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: More Masters than Mistresses - 12/30/2005 5:53:20 PM   
foxglove716


Posts: 648
Joined: 7/4/2005
Status: offline
Yes, it does seem like there are more male subs than female subs. As far as masters and mistresses, it does seem like there are more masters too. Maybe us ladies are just outnumbered all together! I think there are more kinky people out there than many of us realize, and many of the seemingly vanillas are in denial, or maybe they havnt discovered themselves yet. This society seems too often to frown on women having sex, let alone having kinky sex, so this is probably a factor.

_____________________________

Illusion is the first of all pleasures. -Oscar Wilde

(in reply to LostChance)
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RE: More Masters than Mistresses - 12/30/2005 6:10:58 PM   
Voltare


Posts: 841
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
Status: offline
LostChance,

No doubt, the odds are stacked against you, though I suspect if you are not new to the lifestyle, than this is hardly an unexpected surprise.

The question about Doms to subs, as well as women to men seems to come up now and then. Time magazine published a year or so ago an article regarding the issue.

quote:

Source: Time Magazine, January 19, 2004

A common misperception is that most DS relationships involve dominant women—dominatrices, in the parlance—ordering around submissive men. (As a result, some feminists have come to see BDSM lifestyles as not only transgressive but progressive.) And, indeed, among the many prostitutes who offer BDSM services, more are dominant than submissive, says Dr. Paul Federoff, a University of Ottawa psychiatrist who has studied sadomasochists. "You also might see a lot of dominant women at a BDSM nightclub," he says, but "although it's not the politically correct answer, more women in the scene are choosing the submissive role." In a study Federoff co-authored last year, he found that among 1,320 self-identified BDSM practitioners who anonymously completed a Web survey, 79% of women reported being "always or usually submissive"; only 35% of men did.


source: http://www.time.com/time/2004/sex/article/bondage_unbound_growing01a.html

I think I did this once, but will go again - keeping in mind that it was simply a web survey of 1320 individuals. If there are only 21% woman who do not consider themselves always or usually submissive... and 35% of men consider themselves always or usually submissive, then we can at least guess that there are almost two submissive men for every one dominant woman to begin with. I don't have access to the statistics from this website, perhaps a moderator could supply the data - but it's safe to assume that a much larger (my guess being 300%or 400%) of men use online dating services then women do. To boot, men tend far more active in their usage of the tools a site provides, i.e. the searches, and to write potential mates out of the blue. A short conversation with a few of the female members on this site will probably reveal that they receive 5-20 unsolicited emails a day from perfect stranger (I know that gretchen does) whenever they log on. With that in mind, how often do men receive email from women out of the blue?

A few more statistics tend to make things even more complicated - generally speaking, women tend to seek men older then themselves, while men tend to seek women younger then themselves - the result being older women and younger men have an even more difficult situation. Adding to the whole heap, it would seem that a rather large number of Dominant Women seem to be bisexual or lesbians, or already romantically involved with a Dominant Male or vanilla partner already, suggesting the competition can become quite fierce.

With all of these issues in mind, there is a silver lining! From my own experiences, I've never known a Female Dominant worth interacting with that didn't take her time, consider possible partners carefully, and carelessly get involved with a slave. The interview process may be long, difficult, and demanding - with good reason! If a male (or female for that matter) slave is worth the metal around his or her neck, it would make sense that they have earned it.

These message board forums are an excellent place to shine above the hundreds of thousands of male slaves in the sea. One decent post here, seems to be worth more then a hundred letters in private, and exposes a potential slave to literally hundreds of Female Dominants who will be looking from everything from spelling and grammar, to content, to humor. Naturally, not everyone has the gift of gab in writing, but a good twenty or thirty minutes spent penning a few thoughtful ideas on a forum could reap more results then literally hundreds of form letters sent to anonymous people. On top of this, where a woman (or man) who has a FANTASTIC profile with gorgeous pictures makes two or three posts revealing a shallow, meaningless person - it really helps the search. The same thing goes for attending munches, conventions, and generally attempting to get to know the real people who actually enjoy the lifestyle. Obviously, this is not a luxury not availible to everyone (i.e. gretchen and I have rather limited options where we live) but not everyone can live in San Francisco or New York.

(gretchen sitting next to me: To me it would be more attractive for a guy to post something intelligent enough for me to care to read it than the thousands of emails I get saying 'hello.' - even if they aren't speaking to me directly in a post.)

Best of luck!

Stephan & gretchen

I hope

_____________________________

http://www.vv3b.com/

"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to LostChance)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: More Masters than Mistresses - 12/30/2005 6:27:16 PM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline
And then there are those of us submissives who get the "I'm Dom through and through but have submissive urges" emails. That's all really nice, but for goodness sakes just admit you're a switch and get on with it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssPassion

factor this into your equation...

Many of these men who identify as dominants contact the female dominants on a regular basis & whisper to us.... pssst, I know my profile says dominant, but I'm really submissive.

I'm sure there are many women's profiles doing the same thing.



(in reply to MstrssPassion)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: More Masters than Mistresses - 12/30/2005 8:29:43 PM   
Wolfie648


Posts: 600
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

For every male Top/Dominant, there were 3 female Bottom/Submissives.


I've never seen this reflected in 2 of the largest scenes in the 2 largest cities in canada.

Not to mention the vanilla world across the country.

Dom men outstrip (err no sex image intended) in numbers sub women both online and off as far as I've seen. If I'm wrong, just let me know where the best ratio is and I'll pay a visit ;-)

D (owner of j)

_____________________________

Possibly.

(in reply to KevinS)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: More Masters than Mistresses - 12/30/2005 9:28:05 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: foxglove716

Yes, it does seem like there are more male subs than female subs. As far as masters and mistresses, it does seem like there are more masters too. Maybe us ladies are just outnumbered all together! I think there are more kinky people out there than many of us realize, and many of the seemingly vanillas are in denial, or maybe they havnt discovered themselves yet. This society seems too often to frown on women having sex, let alone having kinky sex, so this is probably a factor.


Darn I can't remember, but in different sociology and sexuality courses I've taken folks who study these sorts of gender differences say that more men than women are public with their fetishes and kinks and "alternative sexualities" than women until women start to get into their late 40 or post-menopause.

If I'm remembering correctly that theories are that girls are not expected to be as sexual as boys and also not encouraged (either directly or indirectly) to explore sexuality as boys. That then might explain why fewer women are 'seen' at events and such by several people posting here.

Not saying the theories are true just repeating what I remember.


_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to foxglove716)
Profile   Post #: 20
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