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RE: Extending M/s to encompass every aspect of life - 12/21/2008 1:26:24 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		He and I just had an interesting discussion in regards to the discussion on having authority and exercising authority and I have been instructed to express his thoughts on this. 

He does not have to exercise his authority in order for him to have it.  However, he must have the ability to exercise it.  Mental incapacitation could limit his ability and being unconscious would cut off his ability to exercise authority. 

Currently, Alandra and I have quite a few standing orders and expectations of what he wants from us.  The longer time goes by without him having the ability to exercise authority, the more authority that is slowly transferred back to us.  Since he no longer has the ability to change his mind or communicate his preferences today we can only make decisions based on what he has wanted in the past.  We will forever be influenced by him, but when he loses the ability to exercise his authority, then he loses his authority over us.  Though I don't think that it would ever be complete because we would still continue to make choices based on the preferences he has already expressed to us.

As long as he retains the ability and we agree to abide by his authority, then it need not be exercised for it to be there.  He has authority over what we wear and it exists whether he decides what we will wear or not.  He has the choice on when to take action.  If he did not have the choice on when to take action or not, then he would not have the authority. 

I think it is easy to confuse influence with authority.  If he were no longer part of our lives, then Alandra and I would make choices based on what we think he would prefer.  That is a reflection of his influence over us. 

On another note, if this relationship were to end for some reason, I would not seek another to have complete authority over me.  I may enter other relationships and they may even have some level of authority transferred, but I would not want to give anyone else complete authority.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Extending M/s to encompass every aspect of life - 12/21/2008 1:37:24 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyIsaac

Since you refuse to explain how it all came to him "forfeiting" his ownership of you, I guess we'll have to take your word on that.

Insisting it has nothing to do as an example of the subject at hand is questionable...but that's just my feeling.

quote:


I suspect that honestly describing why will point to the idea that actions and the lack of actions matter in authority. Nothing to be confused about...I've been on the same subject all along here. It's a pretty simple idea. No problem. We can drop it.




OK Isaac, I'll humor you and open up that can of pain here.  His wife, who previously agreed to this relationship, decided after 4 years she could no longer live with it.  After 6 months of trying to work this issue out, the best solution for everyone was for him to forfeit his ownership of me, focus on his marriage, and free me from the struggle and pain that created.

Please do tell me what this  has to do with your point.  I'm all ears/eyes.


_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Extending M/s to encompass every aspect of life - 12/21/2008 2:31:59 PM   
SimplyIsaac


Posts: 376
Joined: 12/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
OK Isaac, I'll humor you and open up that can of pain here.  His wife, who previously agreed to this relationship, decided after 4 years she could no longer live with it.  After 6 months of trying to work this issue out, the best solution for everyone was for him to forfeit his ownership of me, focus on his marriage, and free me from the struggle and pain that created.

Please do tell me what this  has to do with your point.  I'm all ears/eyes.




I would say at this point if you can really truly say you're not a little resentful or his "authority" hasn't been dampened in your eyes....you are full of donkey dust or quite an unusual machine.

Also sounds to me like like the choices he made caused all this struggle and pain, and the "forfeit" of the relationship.

not too hard to see how action affects the dynamic there.

Sorry for your situation, though.


< Message edited by SimplyIsaac -- 12/21/2008 2:32:36 PM >

(in reply to NuevaVida)
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RE: Extending M/s to encompass every aspect of life - 12/21/2008 2:36:33 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		Honestly, Isaac, I really don't know what the point of this has to do with my response to your original post about being in a coma.  Call me blind today but I don't see how we got from there to here.

In any case, the plethora of emotions I felt regarding the end of the relationship have been complex and great, and of course included resentment.  They no longer do, as I have worked through the anger I felt, and I am moving forward.

Maybe I'll come back and read this later, and maybe it will make sense to me then.

Thank you for your sympathy, although I assure you none is needed.  I'm exactly where I need to be right now.

To the OP, apologies for the hijack, at least I think it was a hijack.  Seems to have gotten off track from the original post.

< Message edited by NuevaVida -- 12/21/2008 2:38:26 PM >

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



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RE: Extending M/s to encompass every aspect of life - 12/21/2008 2:39:54 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Sounds like a hack psychologist trying to analyse you without the background to understand what you have been sayiong. But then I could be wrong too.. 

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to NuevaVida)
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RE: Extending M/s to encompass every aspect of life - 12/21/2008 2:44:34 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
maybe it will make sense to me then.


Doubtful.  And a tip of the hat to you, NV, you've been more than patient.

I'm dizzy from all the places this has gone.  I guess I don't understand the thinking that if a sub/slave (and I'm going to ignore the emphasis being placed on one person's view that the difference matters right now) does not receive constant orders, their brain is going to fall out of their ear and they're going to forget everything they've learned about a person and what that person expects of them.

Well, at least I'm not that stupid.  And neither are a whole lot of people I know.

Cali



_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Extending M/s to encompass every aspect of life - 12/21/2008 2:46:07 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		One of my favorite sayings is, "A clever man gets out of situations that a wise man never gets into."  We're seeing the difference between cleverness and wisdom right here in this thread.  Some guy, confident in his smarts, is trying to figure everything out "logically," while people with hard-won experience are offering wisdom and having it classified as "rants," "donkey dust," and "talking in circles."

The longer you care more about your brain than about the reality of human interaction, the longer this wacky BDSM shit will continue to not make sense.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Extending M/s to encompass every aspect of life - 12/21/2008 2:48:14 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DrAtAVenture


As her Master of course I accept responsibility for this shortcoming and am more than prepared to listen attentively to constructive advice, comment and ideas about the best way to move forward. Hence this post. I would welcome posts from anyone who has been through a similar transition, whether from a dominant or submissive perspective. Since this is by definition not something one can learn by observing others, it is a serious challenge for us and I would be grateful for any support the collarme community can offer.

DrAtAVenture

 Himself and I were riding down the elevator today on our way to go site seeing and he pulled my hair, pushed me up against the wall of the elevator and kissed me soundly. It had the exact same effect on me today that it had on me the first time he did that 13 years ago. So, first and foremost, I'd suggest that you continue doing what you did to get the girl. You can add on layers, but never forget the core.  I'd also suggest that you read Marcesadrain's post several times. To me, it's spot on and very helpful for long term success.  I'd also suggest that you don't look upon what's going on now as a 'problem' which needs solving. It's not .. not really. It's more like a possibility that needs exploring. Adventure is an amazing thing and the tinest things can turn into great adventures with the proper attitude. If you haven't experienced how much M/s can be exerted in the veggie aisle at your local grocery, you're just not trying hard enough. ;) If you allow damn near anything to inspire you .. you will be inspired. It doesn't have to be about leather and red hiney's .. just go to the local kitchen store, pick up a potato masher and let your imagination run wild at what you could do with it.  I've read through the thread and there are lots of folks who are talking about the importance being in the authority as opposed to the action. Well, to me, you can't have one without the other in a long term, successful relationship. They are both pretty important. The balance between active and passive dominance, of course, is going to be tempered by outside influence, but if you make your relationship the priority, it won't be unduly influenced to the point where you've gone 10 months without play because Aunt Beezy got the flu, then the boss jumped your ass right before the thermostat on the car went out and the bank made an error with your payroll that caused the rent check to bounce. Shit happens to all of us .. it's when we can roll in it for a bit and laugh about it because we've got so much more with each other than the world can ever throw at us that things tend to take on a proper perspective and you realize that the shit is just shit and, hell, that's why they make Charmin anyway. It'll wash off in the end and you can skip on your merry way. So, never let what's outside your four walls have more importance and meaning to the two of you than what lies within your four walls. Oh, it's okay for a short period of time and sometimes unavoidable or necessary, but let it be rare rather than common and it'll be all good.  Mainly, don't get lazy. Use all the best parts of your slave to the advantage of your relationship. Rely on her creativity and gray cells, too. Dominants aren't the only ones with evil ideas and those are, often, the most delicious fun. Don't be boring, and you won't get bored. In the end, you will have the relationship you want because what you feed in to it is what will grow out of it .. and what you starve it of will die.  And.. read Marc's post again. ;)  

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to DrAtAVenture)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Extending M/s to encompass every aspect of life - 12/21/2008 2:52:41 PM   
SimplyIsaac


Posts: 376
Joined: 12/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

Honestly, Isaac, I really don't know what the point of this has to do with my response to your original post about being in a coma.  Call me blind today but I don't see how we got from there to here.


The coma idea was just a part of a larger discussion...action and authority are related in a M&s dynamic. You can't have one without the other. Again, not sure why you're so confused.


quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
Thank you for your sympathy, although I assure you none is needed. I'm exactly where I need to be right now.


Umm...ok. ?

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Extending M/s to encompass every aspect of life - 12/21/2008 2:53:21 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
Some guy, confident in his smarts, is trying to figure everything out "logically," while people with hard-won experience are offering wisdom and having it classified as "rants," "donkey dust," and "talking in circles."



I have to admit, "donkey dust" was a new one for me.


_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Extending M/s to encompass every aspect of life - 12/21/2008 3:14:10 PM   
SimplyIsaac


Posts: 376
Joined: 12/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

One of my favorite sayings is, "A clever man gets out of situations that a wise man never gets into."  We're seeing the difference between cleverness and wisdom right here in this thread.  Some guy, confident in his smarts, is trying to figure everything out "logically," while people with hard-won experience are offering wisdom and having it classified as "rants," "donkey dust," and "talking in circles."

The longer you care more about your brain than about the reality of human interaction, the longer this wacky BDSM shit will continue to not make sense.



Selective observations taken just a wee bit out of context, red, but cool beans for the "contribution."




(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Extending M/s to encompass every aspect of life - 12/21/2008 3:25:19 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
maybe it will make sense to me then.


Doubtful.  And a tip of the hat to you, NV, you've been more than patient.



Thank you, Cali and also IB (I missed your posts earlier).  For awhile there I was wondering if I wasn't quite as over my flu as I thought!  I'll go back to my regularly scheduled programming now. 


_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Extending M/s to encompass every aspect of life - 12/21/2008 3:36:37 PM   
SimplyIsaac


Posts: 376
Joined: 12/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick
I'm dizzy from all the places this has gone.  I guess I don't understand the thinking that if a sub/slave (and I'm going to ignore the emphasis being placed on one person's view that the difference matters right now) does not receive constant orders, their brain is going to fall out of their ear and they're going to forget everything they've learned about a person and what that person expects of them.


Oh come on now. That is not what I've been saying at all.

Glad to see so many people are reading this crazy, dizzying stuff, though. Quite a support group in here for people with paddles under their names...




< Message edited by SimplyIsaac -- 12/21/2008 4:01:31 PM >

(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Extending M/s to encompass every aspect of life - 12/21/2008 3:44:58 PM   
SimplyIsaac


Posts: 376
Joined: 12/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

He and I just had an interesting discussion in regards to the discussion on having authority and exercising authority and I have been instructed to express his thoughts on this. 

He does not have to exercise his authority in order for him to have it.  However, he must have the ability to exercise it.  Mental incapacitation could limit his ability and being unconscious would cut off his ability to exercise authority. 

Currently, Alandra and I have quite a few standing orders and expectations of what he wants from us.  The longer time goes by without him having the ability to exercise authority, the more authority that is slowly transferred back to us.  Since he no longer has the ability to change his mind or communicate his preferences today we can only make decisions based on what he has wanted in the past.  We will forever be influenced by him, but when he loses the ability to exercise his authority, then he loses his authority over us.  Though I don't think that it would ever be complete because we would still continue to make choices based on the preferences he has already expressed to us.

As long as he retains the ability and we agree to abide by his authority, then it need not be exercised for it to be there.  He has authority over what we wear and it exists whether he decides what we will wear or not.  He has the choice on when to take action.  If he did not have the choice on when to take action or not, then he would not have the authority. 

I think it is easy to confuse influence with authority.  If he were no longer part of our lives, then Alandra and I would make choices based on what we think he would prefer.  That is a reflection of his influence over us. 

On another note, if this relationship were to end for some reason, I would not seek another to have complete authority over me.  I may enter other relationships and they may even have some level of authority transferred, but I would not want to give anyone else complete authority.

Knight's Kyra



I'd say your master is a wise man, Kyra. I think you nailed it on confusing influence vs. authority.

Influence is about an ability to effect, authority is about the capacity to enforce obedience and make decisions. The two are definately related, but not one in the same.

I also agree that if you loose your ability to exercise authority, it will slip away.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Extending M/s to encompass every aspect of life - 12/21/2008 3:59:29 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		I'm beginning to smell Christmas vacation.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to SimplyIsaac)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Extending M/s to encompass every aspect of life - 12/21/2008 5:24:10 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyIsaac



Glad to see so many people are reading this crazy, dizzying stuff, though. Quite a support group in here for people with paddles under their names...





  1. People with paddles under their names have been around posting for a long time and most of us have got used to them.
  2. People with paddles under their names have been around posting for a long time so we know who we trust and who we wouldn't piss on if they were on fire.
  3. Support group equates with people supporting those whose posts we enjoy and trust as much as one can trust with on line friendships.
  4. Some of us get tired with people who come across as making demands for personal information and when it is not forth coming make snarky comments. 

You've been given good suggestions on how to come across in a more friendly manner it is up to you to decide if you want to be a cerebral ace or want to become someone who encourages others to open up with out thought of childish comments.


< Message edited by IronBear -- 12/21/2008 5:26:42 PM >

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to SimplyIsaac)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Extending M/s to encompass every aspect of life - 12/21/2008 5:27:57 PM   
MarcEsadrian


Posts: 852
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
I'd also suggest that you read Marcesadrain's post several times.


Thanks Celeste. I'm honored you think it's worth a read.

I think your statement of "In the end, you will have the relationship you want because what you feed in to it is what will grow out of it," puts it quite succinctly. It takes authentic engagement to bring the vision you have into fruition, particularly a vision of Master and slave, and that's only after a great deal of soul searching.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Extending M/s to encompass every aspect of life - 12/21/2008 5:49:43 PM   
bound4more


Posts: 128
Joined: 10/3/2008
Status: offline 		The intensity of M/s makes itself known in our relationship when the tire hits the road. In other words it's easy to submit if one doesn't really care one way or the other about a particular decision, or when the decision means the slave gets what she wants anyway. But submit when it's not what I want, when it's exactly the opposite of what I really want, well then that is one of the things that makes the difference between a 24/7 M/s relationship and a "play" one.
 
We have always had a D/s to M/s relationship. But it was in living together that I found the greatest challenges. Going from having my own money and making all my own financial decisions, always being the one to decide when to work and what jobs to accept or not, to being completely financially dependent upon Him, being told when and how much I was to work and how the remainder of my time was to be used - well the adjustments were huge for me. Yet, for me that is when one finds out just how serious you are about living M/s and not just playing at it.

_____________________________

You can tell who someone really is by how they act

(in reply to DrAtAVenture)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Extending M/s to encompass every aspect of life - 12/21/2008 9:00:39 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bound4more
But submit when it's not what I want, when it's exactly the opposite of what I really want, well then that is one of the things that makes the difference between a 24/7 M/s relationship and a "play" one.

That's absolutely false.

It might "feel" more fuzzy/buzzy/squishy/leash tightening when you don't want it, but that doesn't make it any more real or submissive or true or anything than when it is something you want.

Now, of course we can agree that time and experience makes relationship show their mettle.  And tough times together can either bind or destroy and a couple who hasn't really been through some hard times might not really know that mettle compared to one which has.

But we should never make the mistake of leaping to the conclusion that "if you don't like it, it's more real" 


_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to bound4more)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Extending M/s to encompass every aspect of life - 12/21/2008 10:20:40 PM   
SimplyIsaac


Posts: 376
Joined: 12/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Some of us get tired with people who come across as making demands for personal information and when it is not forth coming make snarky comments. 

You've been given good suggestions on how to come across in a more friendly manner it is up to you to decide if you want to be a cerebral ace or want to become someone who encourages others to open up with out thought of childish comments.



IronBear, I'm sorry you feel that way.

I encourage you to quote me where I've displayed being such a "child" or show evidence I'm not engaged seriously with readers or the commenters.

Actually i recall debating you respectfully, but you didn't seem to like that i guess.

I will tell you I'm not here on a gee, I hope you like me mission. Call that being incorrigible, irrepressible and irreverent. I call it: sticking to the argument and who gives a damn about popularity. So, swallow your own motto, dude. How's it taste?

Ok, yeah, now I'm being a prick.


< Message edited by SimplyIsaac -- 12/21/2008 10:27:08 PM >

(in reply to IronBear)
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