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Balancing commitment and love - 1/2/2006 10:41:58 AM

Posts: 10
Joined: 7/18/2004
From: Indiana
Status: offline

I have a feeling this might get a lively discussion going, and this is a matter that I have to be able to resolve before I can start to really get involved in this lifestyle.

My eventual goal in being a master is to be able to commit to my sub/slave for life. I beleive that just as a sub must put her trust in her master, she must also be able to trust him/her for security, to take care of them if anything should happen, and most importantly to be able to put their independece and possibly career aspirations aside because they know they won't be left to fend for themselves.

Now that said, my need to have a lifelong bdsm partner is equal to my need to be with the one I love without question. I couldn't live with myself knowing that I didn't feel that way about the sub or slave who had committed herself to me. So my question is, how do you balance these two? Do you try to find love first, and if you both share a desire for this lifestyle then you would have a tremendously strong foundation of trust to start from? Or do you commit yourself to being a master first, and trust that you will come to love the one who has entrusted herself to you?

Until I figure this out, I am afraid to get involved in the lifestyle for real, because I might make the wrong decision. I'm sure this is a dilemma that many or most people have to figure out when they started getting involved in this. I'd appreciate any insight or experiences you can relate.

Andy

RE: Balancing commitment and love - 1/2/2006 10:45:08 AM

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Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrADude2004
So my question is, how do you balance these two? Do you try to find love first, and if you both share a desire for this lifestyle then you would have a tremendously strong foundation of trust to start from? Or do you commit yourself to being a master first, and trust that you will come to love the one who has entrusted herself to you?

Both occur all the time.

Just depends on what happens with you.

I will say that I believe that the commitment and the love happen organically or they don't happen at all. Trying to schedule it, or force it, won't work. Both lasting love and lasting commitments are work and time- you have to simply find someone compatible on that with you.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to MrADude2004)

RE: Balancing commitment and love - 1/2/2006 11:24:16 AM

Fawne

Posts: 462
Status: offline

Which came first? The chicken or the egg? (pardon the cliche)

A question with no percise, mathmatical answer. You can't know. Its the risk, you do have to give up an ounce of control (trust) ... to gain that control and love and commitment you desire. Riddles? Yeah. But, you are here: you have begun. Its past what you are asking <g>

It sounds like you really know what you want, need and can provide.
Focus of intent and expression will appeal to the right type of person. You may need be patient. Don't complain about girls and responses etc... keeping it real for you.

Please keep it positive. Afraid? Join the club! If you had no apprehension: then you should worry :)

Writing in these forums in a great place to start, to learn and meet people.

Best of luck, fawne ... just a chick with an opinion.

(in reply to MrADude2004)

RE: Balancing commitment and love - 1/3/2006 6:36:32 AM

Posts: 315
Joined: 8/6/2005
From: Clearwater
Status: offline

Even though the sterotype of the BDSM world is that we don't have life long relationships, that we sleep around, yadda yadda yadda, that's not the rule. Even though sterotypes are there for a reason.

You can, and hopefully will, fall in love with your sub/slave.

You don't have to have another sub/slave.

Love your sub, but don't force it. If you are both into the kink, talk about it.

Tell her what you feel, and want from the relationship.

That is the only way things are going to work out in the long run.

_____________________________

It's my way or the highway. Just happens that the highway is on my way.

~Master Wolf

(in reply to Fawne)

RE: Balancing commitment and love - 1/3/2006 7:17:25 AM

Posts: 1024
Joined: 3/15/2005
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Master Archer and I entered into a Master/slave contract 7 years ago with no intention of having 'romantic love' be a focus. ...but it happened.

I am a slave first..I am his slave first. To me, that is more important.

It might be different for other people.

_____________________________

Elegant
~Slave To Master Archer

http://www.FantasiesInLeather.com

(in reply to MrADude2004)

RE: Balancing commitment and love - 1/3/2006 12:19:24 PM

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrADude2004

Now that said, my need to have a lifelong bdsm partner is equal to my need to be with the one I love without question. I couldn't live with myself knowing that I didn't feel that way about the sub or slave who had committed herself to me. So my question is, how do you balance these two? Do you try to find love first, and if you both share a desire for this lifestyle then you would have a tremendously strong foundation of trust to start from? Or do you commit yourself to being a master first, and trust that you will come to love the one who has entrusted herself to you?

Until I figure this out, I am afraid to get involved in the lifestyle for real, because I might make the wrong decision. I'm sure this is a dilemma that many or most people have to figure out when they started getting involved in this. I'd appreciate any insight or experiences you can relate.

Andy,

As I read this post I can’t help realize that you have fundamental belief or opinion that I do not share. You seem to feel that there is a required balance to be maintained between having a BDSM partner and a lifelong committed loving relationship. I not only think that there is no balance between them, but that they actually enhance each others particular influence upon the relationship. They not only coexist but can have interdependency to each other.

My second thought of consideration, what do you consider a BDSM partner is? This reference can imply many different possibilities. BDSM (Bondage, Discipline, Sadomasochism) in the strictest sense refers to the play that many within the lifestyle engage in. It can also be in reference to the D/s component that is the power dynamics of the given relationship that you are seeking to have with a loving partner.

As a person that is both deeply engaged and immersed in a variety of BDSM activities with my loving partners and also having a D/s power dynamic that is equally intense. I can say unequivocally that in my opinion these aspects are not balanced against the loving commitment of my relationships with alandra and kyra, but enhance and celebrate this love.

My girls and I have an intense focus on being true to the inner self. Everyday it is a journey of growth to become “Aware” of who we are within. Thru this awareness that is gained each and every day that we live our lives we also come to “Accept” what we learn of ourselves. It is thru this acceptance that we are able to live and “Actualize” what our awareness of self brings. It is also thru Actualization of your awareness of self that we begin to increase new awareness of ourselves and begin the cycle of growth. “Awareness – Acceptance – Actualization”. As we continually actualize the inner self we become more at peace and happier in our daily lives. Carl Rogers, a noted intellectual, was of the opinion that as individuals realize the inner ideal of self into actual demonstrated behaviors they reach a higher level of happiness with themselves and life in general. That the activity of denying the ideal self from the actualized behaviors of this idea self would result in an every increasing risk towards psychosis.

It is my opinion that in being who we are we will find a deeper sense of happiness and contentment with ourselves and our life. It is not a question of finding a balance of the BDSM activities or the D/s Power dynamics of our relationships with our loving commitment to our partner. It is about embracing these aspects of ourselves with a partner that is compatible to us. Your particular desires and wants within the BDSM and D/s lifestyle are a part of who you are. As you become increasingly aware and accept these parts of yourself you work towards actualizing them you will find a deeper sense of happiness in your life. I would add that by its very nature BDSM and D/s activity requires a partner(s) to which these activities can be enjoyed with. This partner needs to be compatible in your needs and wants in these areas as well as many other areas that are not BDSM or D/s. This partner will join you in your growth, you will grow together. It is not a question of which starts first. Love may come first with your partner. You may develop your love on a foundation of other shared ideals and beliefs and not just a shared interest in BDSM and/or D/s. It maybe that you both will come together due to your mutual shared interests with particular aspects of BDSM and/or D/s. But as your awareness-acceptance-actualization grows within the relationship and yourself, so will your love with your partner and the things that you are both desiring and wanting.

I see no conflict or balance to be maintained… only a need for you to accept who you are.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to MrADude2004)

RE: Balancing commitment and love - 1/3/2006 1:10:54 PM

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Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline

I understand exactly what you're saying, MrADude. It's really difficult to find a compatible life partner whom you can love with all the passion in your heart and who is also into the BDSM scene. I think the most likely way to find "it all" is to keep your ads online, like I do, and specify exactly what you are looking for, like I do. It may not be what most potential counterparts here are looking for, but it's what *I* want, so I hang in there, hoping for a lucky break, lol.

Also, try to frequent the real/life munches, BDSM clubs, etc. where those with kinks like yours will also be....looking for someone they also can fall in love with. Try to keep your ears open for little comments and innuendoes that someone in your day-to-day vanilla world (like work, bowling league,etc.) might make when you're having a relaxed conversation. Sometimes people throw out little "feelers" by cracking jokes about things that they just might be serious about. For example.....it's someone's birthday and someone makes a joke about the birthday spanking. Someone else might react by saying, "ooooh, baby!" or something like that which just might mean that they're into the kink! Maybe you can somehow work that into another conversation??? Don't ask me how! But maybe you can?

I suspect that there are a lot of people out there who ARE into the kink, but they just don't know it yet.

Good luck!
chymes

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: Balancing commitment and love - 1/3/2006 2:58:47 PM

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

Commitment forms the security that allows love to grow.
Without that commitment the security and trust nessisary for love to flourish over a lifetime rarely will exist.

So it's not a ballance of the two it's the combination of them that you may be seeking. The only hazard is in deciding which one will be the foundation level and which one the walls or the roof. Personally I find that commitment makes a steadier foundation.

In Leather

Archer

(in reply to MrADude2004)

RE: Balancing commitment and love - 1/3/2006 3:16:59 PM

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Joined: 11/7/2004
Status: offline

The only way i can commit truelly to a Master is if the relationship is based on love...with love all things are possible in my eyes...but hey thats just my choice.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrADude2004

I have a feeling this might get a lively discussion going, and this is a matter that I have to be able to resolve before I can start to really get involved in this lifestyle.

My eventual goal in being a master is to be able to commit to my sub/slave for life. I beleive that just as a sub must put her trust in her master, she must also be able to trust him/her for security, to take care of them if anything should happen, and most importantly to be able to put their independece and possibly career aspirations aside because they know they won't be left to fend for themselves.

Now that said, my need to have a lifelong bdsm partner is equal to my need to be with the one I love without question. I couldn't live with myself knowing that I didn't feel that way about the sub or slave who had committed herself to me. So my question is, how do you balance these two? Do you try to find love first, and if you both share a desire for this lifestyle then you would have a tremendously strong foundation of trust to start from? Or do you commit yourself to being a master first, and trust that you will come to love the one who has entrusted herself to you?

Until I figure this out, I am afraid to get involved in the lifestyle for real, because I might make the wrong decision. I'm sure this is a dilemma that many or most people have to figure out when they started getting involved in this. I'd appreciate any insight or experiences you can relate.

Andy

(in reply to MrADude2004)

RE: Balancing commitment and love - 1/3/2006 3:47:13 PM

ExistentialSteel

Posts: 676
Joined: 1/18/2005
Status: offline

Likewise, I wouldn't want a slave if I didn't love her and she didn't love me. Could I start a D/s relationship without love? Sure, but if it progressed to her being a slave, I want love in the air more than the flogger.

_____________________________

For those who are like Roman Candles leaving bright trails in the night sky while the crowd watches until the dark blue center light bursts into magnificent colors and the crowd goes, ahhhhhhhhhh.

(in reply to sweetpettjenny)

RE: Balancing commitment and love - 1/3/2006 5:13:29 PM

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Joined: 2/6/2005
Status: offline

quote:

I wouldn't want a slave if I didn't love her and she didn't love me. Could I start a D/s relationship without love? Sure, but if it progressed to her being a slave, I want love in the air more than the flogger.

Wow, ExistentialSteel. Nicely said, almost poetic.

MrADude, it may take decades, but you'll find your answer (and your love) eventially.

PS: Has anyone noticed how many kinky people are from Indiana? Seattle claims to be the black leather capitol of the world, but Indiana looks like the BDSM kingdom.

(in reply to ExistentialSteel)

RE: Balancing commitment and love - 1/3/2006 5:43:31 PM

Gomez

Posts: 51
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrADude2004

I have a feeling this might get a lively discussion going, and this is a matter that I have to be able to resolve before I can start to really get involved in this lifestyle.

My eventual goal in being a master is to be able to commit to my sub/slave for life. I beleive that just as a sub must put her trust in her master, she must also be able to trust him/her for security, to take care of them if anything should happen, and most importantly to be able to put their independece and possibly career aspirations aside because they know they won't be left to fend for themselves.

Now that said, my need to have a lifelong bdsm partner is equal to my need to be with the one I love without question. I couldn't live with myself knowing that I didn't feel that way about the sub or slave who had committed herself to me. So my question is, how do you balance these two? Do you try to find love first, and if you both share a desire for this lifestyle then you would have a tremendously strong foundation of trust to start from? Or do you commit yourself to being a master first, and trust that you will come to love the one who has entrusted herself to you?

Until I figure this out, I am afraid to get involved in the lifestyle for real, because I might make the wrong decision. I'm sure this is a dilemma that many or most people have to figure out when they started getting involved in this. I'd appreciate any insight or experiences you can relate.

Andy

Don't be afraid. You are who you are and finding your sub partner will just take time. Once you find that special person, tell them about yourself. Be honest and open from the start and you will find that your sub will bond with you harder and better than just a vanilla relationship.

_____________________________

Sometimes people would rather believe in a lie as its a lot easier and less complicated than the truth!

(in reply to MrADude2004)

RE: Balancing commitment and love - 1/3/2006 6:46:30 PM

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Now that said, my need to have a lifelong bdsm partner is equal to my need to be with the one I love without question. I couldn't live with myself knowing that I didn't feel that way about the sub or slave who had committed herself to me. So my question is, how do you balance these two? Do you try to find love first, and if you both share a desire for this lifestyle then you would have a tremendously strong foundation of trust to start from? Or do you commit yourself to being a master first, and trust that you will come to love the one who has entrusted herself to you?

I can only speak from my own perspective. Although when I was searching the love had to come first. Because as the love grew the trust grew. I wasn't stupid so I was'nt going to put myself in an abuser's hands. There is really no true way to know until you know a person. Although we also had similar interests just the dynamic was put on hold until we were both ready for it to be there.

(in reply to MrADude2004)

RE: Balancing commitment and love - 1/4/2006 6:59:42 PM

classykindasassy

Posts: 291
Joined: 12/13/2005
Status: offline

There was a topic recently in one of our Lifestyle Communities in Houston. The Topic was "now that you're in the lifestyle, could you go back to Vanilla?"

To me that is totally relevant here as it locates YOU in one world as far as your choice of a partner.

If your interest in BDSM is confirmed and you can't go back, then the rest of the matter is just like it is in the vanilla selection process. You choose based on your values and commitments and the degree to which they are shared and enhanced by the other person.

Sheer chemistry is the same pitfall here as it is in vanillaland, and even more due to the intensity of our feelings and sensations.

And people grow, change and can grow apart, just like vanillaland.

We make mistakes in our choices just like vanillaland.

BUT, I do think we lifestylers have an edge in the sanity market overall. Our liaisons are based on explicit mutual agreement, unlike the frequent accidents and trainwrecks one finds in vanilla relationship.

To sum up, if you know you want a partner that shares your kink and your taste for sanity, then the rest works like any other human relations do.

_____________________________

"The less I seek my source for some definitive, the closer I am to fine." -The Indigo Girls

(in reply to sub4hire)

RE: Balancing commitment and love - 1/4/2006 7:11:37 PM

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Joined: 12/10/2005
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I'm actually really touched to see this topic raised .. so much of what I read does everything BUT refer to that type of commitment.

What I have become aware of since joining this site is how incredibly lucky I am - I am in a wonderful long-term totally committed (and in our case, monogamous) realtionship with my Dom. Which came first? The chicken or the egg? Looking back it doesn't matter - I fell for him almost upon meeting him, we had a tumultuous passionate, sometimes crazy, sometimes horrible, sometimes magical relationship for many many years. Despite our best efforts (LOL) we couldn't stay away from each other and only put a name to what are realtionship REALLY was in the past year ... yet elements of this lifestyle (looking back in hindsight) were present throughout its long history - naming it, exploring it has only intensified and enhanced it and we continue to explore and grow.

Ultimately, one of the truest things I have seen here is that no relationship can be forced. Let time and exploration and commitment find their measure -

I recently read a book written by a former dominatrix who chose to explore the submissive side of her personality and discovered that there was her true calling - she points out that there are often many elements of our lifestyle in what is ostensibly a "vanilla" relationship and for those of our leaning but in love with someone we think is "vanilla" it is sometimes possible to explore their propensity for our chosen lifestyle - through simple means. Sometimes, just becuase it isn't called what it really is, doesn't mean it doesn't exist - that "playing" rape for example might be a hint about where you might nudge your "vanilla" relationship ....

alll I can say, it can and does exist - the two co-existing and I wish the best to all who seek to meld the two.

(in reply to classykindasassy)

RE: Balancing commitment and love - 1/5/2006 9:49:36 AM

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Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
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If you look in the nilla world for love first...what are the chances of converting it to bdsm? But if you look in the bdsm world, AND you are careful who you are open to...then your chances of having both are much greater.

I think most all search for love....in whatever form it takes...

Christina

(in reply to SelkiePet1)

RE: Balancing commitment and love - 1/5/2006 10:09:07 AM

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Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
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quote:

I do think we lifestylers have an edge in the sanity market overall. Our liaisons are based on explicit mutual agreement, unlike the frequent accidents and trainwrecks one finds in vanilla relationship.

I don't agree with that.
Any relationship can fall prey to problems.
There is nothing special about this lifestyle. It may be more intense in some aspects, and I like to think that people are more communicative, but that just isn't always so.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to classykindasassy)

RE: Balancing commitment and love - 1/5/2006 10:18:23 AM

stef

Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: classykindasassy

BUT, I do think we lifestylers have an edge in the sanity market overall. Our liaisons are based on explicit mutual agreement, unlike the frequent accidents and trainwrecks one finds in vanilla relationship.

Poppycock. I've seen just as many trainwrecks, some of even greater intensity, in "lifestyle" relationships. There is nothing inherent to such relationships that makes them less fragile or prone to implosion than vanilla ones, no matter what we might like to believe. It's all just people.

~stef

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to classykindasassy)

RE: Balancing commitment and love - 1/5/2006 10:34:19 AM

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Joined: 5/12/2005
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I would twist your question around a bit to give another perspective. Do you want a vanilla marriage in which Master - sub/slave is not a primary dynamic? (If you have a vanilla spouse who does not share the joy you do in a Master - sub/slave relationship, then what?) If your answer to my first question is no, then commit yourself to being a Master first. If your answer is yes, then look for love first.

You may find many vanilla women who would make great love/life partners but the numbers of women who are subs/slaves who click with you would most likely be fewer if only because fewer women are interested in and drawn to this dynamic.

(in reply to MrADude2004)

RE: Balancing commitment and love - 1/5/2006 11:08:53 AM

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Joined: 12/10/2005
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first of all - agree with those who point out that wrecked and odd relationships are "less" common in lifestyle relationships - bs - all you have to do is read some of the profiles cycling by here to see there have been some very sad things happening between people in this lifestyle.

I agree that your chances of finding someone to your taste in the BDSM world are more likely than looking in the "vanilla" world and then hoping they go for your lifestyle BUT one thing I find odd and really sad is the number of people I see that have their safe comfortable "vanilla" relationships and then look elsewhere for this - which is all well and fine but I bet a lot of their partners don't realize the intensity of the BDSM lifestyle ...

if the "vanilla" partners DO know, I don't think they would be as sanguine - if they DON't know, then well, cheating is cheating - no matter how you colour it or change the wording.

NOT talking here (to be clear) about polyamornous relationships - my understanding there is that everyone is above board.

(in reply to MasterLark)

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