RE: Pagans, Ritual sex, and BDSM (Full Version)

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oceanwynds -> RE: Pagans, Ritual sex, and BDSM (1/7/2009 6:30:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I agree the sexual energy is perhaps the most creative and positive energies there is for use in ritual, I know that, but I won't go there. Perhaps I limit myself, but I do everything in response to feeling and my feeling is I have not the knowledge to know what I am doing with such energies, so I leave well alone.


Wise decision. I will not do it with every Tom, Dick or Dom either. It worked well with late hubby, but we knew each other and were together for a long time. Being a practicing witch, i have to take in account of my partner, in this case Sir. It is not something to go into lightly, in my book.



IronBear -> RE: Pagans, Ritual sex, and BDSM (1/7/2009 8:23:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aszhrae

I prefer blood magick over sex magick (or tantric magick). Since you always have your own blood available which is what I use when inscribing, invoking, summoning or preparing my self for dreamwalking or visionquesting. Its frowned upon by many the use of blood because as soon as you mention, people immediately think of animal sacrifice or even worst, human sacrifice. Only blood used is my own as that is what the spirits want, they want to drink of your essence, it gives them life and what you ask of them gives them purpose. That is why they exist, to help, to offer insight and guidance. My own essence in offering is stronger than any animal. Why would I sacrifice a creature of nature? I wouldn't, I have too much respect for nature and the spirits that co-exist around us.


I have to chuckle over blood magick as I am well known to manage to cut myself when in the workshop producing tools temple furniture or making swords axes or daggers for magickal usage. I simply use that is a blood sacrifice and include that energy into the equipment or tool. On another note, I enjoy hunting, when I kill an animal I perform a small requiem for the life force taken as I do if I am going to kill a chook for table use. To me that is both honest and honourable to give thanks to the Goddess for the life and nourishment of the animal or bird whose life I have taken and whose blood is given back to the earth.



SirShadowhawk -> RE: Pagans, Ritual sex, and BDSM (1/7/2009 8:43:37 AM)

I can understand that some would want to seperate kink from Ritual or sex magick.. But im more curious about those who DO chose to incorporate it. And IronBear im not a hunter per se but i can appreciate those who would venerate the spirit of the animal. Believes there spirits need to be respected as much as any human.And as far as blood in ritual..ONLY for certain intense and laborious spells or rituals would i do so. In some second degree initiations a drop of blood is mixed in the Chalice, but its more a sacrifice of yourself for your path than a sacrifice to the Gods..



Aszhrae -> RE: Pagans, Ritual sex, and BDSM (1/7/2009 8:57:21 AM)

quote:

I have to chuckle over blood magick as I am well known to manage to cut myself when in the workshop producing tools temple furniture or making swords axes or daggers for magickal usage. I simply use that is a blood sacrifice and include that energy into the equipment or tool. On another note, I enjoy hunting, when I kill an animal I perform a small requiem for the life force taken as I do if I am going to kill a chook for table use. To me that is both honest and honourable to give thanks to the Goddess for the life and nourishment of the animal or bird whose life I have taken and whose blood is given back to the earth.


Ancient hunters used to give thanks by cutting a portion of the animal and leaving it behind as an offering of thanks for a kill. They also believed that if the tool they were using was not built soundly that the animal they were hunting would not offer themselves to the warrior to kill. Early Animism which was the foundations to Shamanism. Very noble of you IronBear.



piratecommander -> RE: Pagans, Ritual sex, and BDSM (1/7/2009 9:55:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

I read about Crowleys sex Magick..but that is it.
And I had some of his quotes in my profile once..and people did contact me because of that.
SO I suggest mentioning it in your profile and journal. (if not there yet)

quote:

Love is the law, love under will.


this one fits the life style ;)


Crowleys works are flawed , In terms of attention to detail , he paid a lot. In terms of lack of attention to very basic things , he did not.

To save time and discussion over "opinion" on this , I relate an undisputable fact , his Thoth deck research was impressive in its attention to including the traditional detail whilst incorporating his own "fingerprint" on it.

He made , however , a simple error over something that should be obvious to anyone claiming to be educated in the Tarot.

As the Tarot is tested far beyond the realms of Pagans, Ritual sex, and BDSM , I put this forward as a good reason for not taking his work seriously without cross referencing its validity against other , some would say more valid , sources.

I will leave the followers to spot the OBVIOUS mistake in this , one of , if not the most famous of his works.

Pirate



GreedyTop -> RE: Pagans, Ritual sex, and BDSM (1/7/2009 10:07:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aszhrae

I prefer blood magick over sex magick (or tantric magick). Since you always have your own blood available which is what I use when inscribing, invoking, summoning or preparing my self for dreamwalking or visionquesting. Its frowned upon by many the use of blood because as soon as you mention, people immediately think of animal sacrifice or even worst, human sacrifice. Only blood used is my own as that is what the spirits want, they want to drink of your essence, it gives them life and what you ask of them gives them purpose. That is why they exist, to help, to offer insight and guidance. My own essence in offering is stronger than any animal. Why would I sacrifice a creature of nature? I wouldn't, I have too much respect for nature and the spirits that co-exist around us.


Aszhrae..

a few things:

1:  do you not realize that in actuality, humans ARE animals?
2: Are humans NOT part of nature?
3:  How is YOUR blood more significant than another creature of natures?



Aszhrae -> RE: Pagans, Ritual sex, and BDSM (1/7/2009 10:27:38 AM)

quote:

1: do you not realize that in actuality, humans ARE animals?
2: Are humans NOT part of nature?
3: How is YOUR blood more significant than another creature of natures?


Yes. We are animals
Yes. We are part of nature as it affects each of us differently.
I believe my blood is more potent based upon my heritage and that when I offer my blood I am doing so to invoke the spirits around me in the ritual that I am doing at the time.



IronBear -> RE: Pagans, Ritual sex, and BDSM (1/7/2009 10:38:53 AM)

If a rite was for me either as a healing of myself or for one of my blood, or as part of the energising and personalizing of some tool or talisman, then the best blood to use is mine for that reason. Were I performing a similar rite for another not of my blood, then I would use their blood. 



Aszhrae -> RE: Pagans, Ritual sex, and BDSM (1/7/2009 11:06:14 AM)

Exactly.
Why sacrifice an innocent animal when my own blood will suffice.
By the way, need to ask about something.
I used to know a natural anticoagulant that is extracted from a plant, but for the life of me I can not remember what it was.
Want to make some blood ink.



LadyLynx -> RE: Pagans, Ritual sex, and BDSM (1/7/2009 11:18:41 AM)

more potent for you to use, or more potent in general?



manxcat -> RE: Pagans, Ritual sex, and BDSM (1/7/2009 11:22:12 AM)

Yellow melilot (and white) Melitotus officinalis, common names hay flowers, king's clover, sweet clover, yellow sweet clover
used by doctors as an ati-coagulant to break up blood clots.  While that is in-vivo usage, should also work in-vitro.
edited to add:
it can also cause vomiting in large doses

manxy



Aszhrae -> RE: Pagans, Ritual sex, and BDSM (1/7/2009 11:34:55 AM)

I understand the use of a hermetically sealed container to preserve things almost indefinitely, but there is still opening the container for use which would contribute to the eventual degradation to the purity of the ink itself.
Now to check to see if I can actually get it here.
When I was living in Toronto, I could get anything from a friend that used to travel back and forth from Ottawa when it came to herbalism.
Can get Whorehound but not Belladonna or Witch Hazel here for a particular tea I know that is great in small doses to cure stomach ulcers. Also makes good visionary tea if made a little stronger.
One good thing though is that I have access to certain minerals that allow to make colored mineral inks easier.
So many herbs are unavailable for the making of tinctures, powders, balms, ointments and even poultices. A real shame.
I know of an ointment that requires stinging nettle to be diluted when added that sensitizes the skin, but stinging nettles I have not been able to find here.
Even finding willow bark extract is a hard find. Great for massaging someone's aching muscles and around the joints.



DavanKael -> RE: Pagans, Ritual sex, and BDSM (1/7/2009 12:13:07 PM)

I've only scanned the first page of replies but haven't seen tantra mentioned.  Certainly another potential path to ritual in sex; sex-based worship. 
  Davan 



SirShadowhawk -> RE: Pagans, Ritual sex, and BDSM (1/7/2009 12:29:34 PM)

Yes Daiwan, lots of discussion which veers AWAY FROM my asking about experiential ritual and sex magick which incorporates BDSM and other forms of kink..I do see Tantra.. and not just the overall Denial of Orgasm so fascinating..but the relationship between partners.. Tantric sex is not for the meek. Im just trying to gleen what i can so that i can incorporate in my own lifestyle..As a pagan i see this could be beneficial..spiritually, and practically..in a magickal sense as it were



Aszhrae -> RE: Pagans, Ritual sex, and BDSM (1/7/2009 12:36:38 PM)

Actually the mention of herbalism in its own way is used in accordance to the subject of this thread. As for inquiring about a natural anti-coagulant could also be used in the practice of ritual bloodletting to keep the tiny cuts to bead with blood but not to the point where the individual on the receiving in will bleed out or lose consciousness.
Also the practice of the mingling of blood for the purpose of ritual requires a certain amount of SM to be involved along with the ritual. Even the practice of vampirism with a trusted partner(s) requires the use of natural anti-coagulants because they are not poisonous to the body as the use of tree saps can be.

Edit: Yes, I have tried vampirism and it was an interesting experience when I was active with a small group of vampire wannabes here (hep is something that you are tested for constantly because of the risk). Certainly not for everyone and I am not adverse to eating raw meat either. It can be fun rub blood dripping piece of meat over your partner, but then again that counts as food play in a very primordial and feral kink.



DavanKael -> RE: Pagans, Ritual sex, and BDSM (1/7/2009 12:57:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirShadowhawk

Yes Daiwan, lots of discussion which veers AWAY FROM my asking about experiential ritual and sex magick which incorporates BDSM and other forms of kink..I do see Tantra.. and not just the overall Denial of Orgasm so fascinating..but the relationship between partners.. Tantric sex is not for the meek. Im just trying to gleen what i can so that i can incorporate in my own lifestyle..As a pagan i see this could be beneficial..spiritually, and practically..in a magickal sense as it were


Davan, please.  I have seen bdsm and tantra melded, hence my mentioning of it.  Additionally, one could argue that there is a focus on power-dynamics inherently, though that may be a more subtle lean than that of which you speak. 
  Davan



IronBear -> RE: Pagans, Ritual sex, and BDSM (1/7/2009 1:43:00 PM)

One could argue Davan that a good initiation is akin to collaring a slave. The bonding is amazingly similar..

For mosr of my cuts, I have one of my dogs lick the would which heals faster and cleaner than any ointments I would use..



piratecommander -> RE: Pagans, Ritual sex, and BDSM (1/7/2009 2:14:04 PM)

Apart from the OP , there are several posts refering to "BDSM" and associating it with things "sacred" "magick" "ritual" etc on this thread , I struggle to find the connection of any of the ancient ways and beliefs that can be considered to connect with BDSM , for a start , the Marquis de Sade and Leopold von Sacher-Masoch are realisticaly , in terms of this discussion , MODERN characters. It beggars belief "BDSM" can be associated in this way with the true spiritual , devotional channeling of energies practised with belief in so many ways of thinking.

Kink is not going to suddenly spring "ancient" "mystical" roots , things ancient and ,to some,mystical, involving sex , strictly observed roles and purposefully associated with faith , belief , or worship have been around since long before the above mentioned kinksters .

de Sade , Masoch are not to blame for the confusion , I feel. Crowley , however ........... now thats different

I worry that so many beliefs are being demeaned by these associations.

It is a great idea to be able to enjoy both , but they are two different things , in my opinion.

Pirate

......... not a "pagan"



piratecommander -> RE: Pagans, Ritual sex, and BDSM (1/7/2009 2:25:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyLynx

more potent for you to use, or more potent in general?


A very astute question ..... I postulate that (should I choose to believe it) my blood would be way more potent (based on the"heritage" argument) ...... just as well I don't really , there'd be too many followers to deal with just now.

Pirate



DavanKael -> RE: Pagans, Ritual sex, and BDSM (1/7/2009 3:46:27 PM)

Thank you for expressing an understanding of what I was saying, Iron Bear. :>
Davan



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