undergroundsea
Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
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ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1
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ORIGINAL: LunaVenus
Not necessarily all of that. But I don't know any slave that does not do something for their Domme...especially if they really love her.
This makes perfect sense to me. We all get something out of a relationship, no matter what we call it. I personally would not be in a relationship with a man who was nothing more than a body for me to use sexually. I would have to feel that he would go above and beyond in his efforts to remain in a relationship with me, in order for me to feel he cares for me singularly as his lady.
Sure. Each person' s desire to be or not in a relationship depends on the sum of that that brings satisfaction and that that brings dissatisfaction. Why do you think I dispute this point?
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Is your issue the word tribute itself? Because for as long as I've been alive, I've known some men who take care of their women, and some who also defer to her. What is wrong with her slaves taking care of her as their wife, if they can?
My issue is with the idea that attention must be earned monetarily. I think attention can be earned by attracting desire. And my issue is with suggestions that tributes are made necessary by men or circumstances when instead I see it as a choice. I give reasons for why I think it is a choice and am open to seeing reasons that suggest otherwise.
Receiving money or gifts upon command is convenient--it is not a gesture of affection when it is on command. When I hear someone say that they get tribute only because it helps them know that the man is sincere, or because otherwise they would not have time, the reason given does not appeal to me intellectually and I see a different reason at play. I give the reasons why it does not appeal to me intellectually and have never seen an effective counterargument.
And so I also have an issue when someone tries to give a genuine reason for a motivation that is not as genuine as presented.
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As for the ratios, I think the only reason there is such an imbalance, is because 50% of the submissive men seeking, already have one domina at home in the form of girlfriend or wife they are serving, which would make serving another problematic, especially if the other wants his love, devotion, and material possessions shared.
I see your comment that there are many submissive men who are seeking who are married. I am unclear on how this point creates the imbalance you reference.
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Did she insinuate that she was forcing anyone to do anything? How many dominas on these boards speak of simply wanting a connection, and have difficulty finding someone who doesn't simply want a free ride, without the inconvenience of a relationship?
I did not make this comment in my response to her, but as part of general comments about my perspective about tribute. Wanting a free ride spans humans in general. Just as there are subs who seek a free ride sexually, which makes you feel however you feel, there are dommes who want a free ride monetarily. You see the situation as one who seeks a broader relationship and react to subs who seek to exploit you (or the group with which you identify) sexually. I see the situation as one who seeks and is willing to give towards a broader relationship and react to dommes who seek to exploit me (or the group with which I identify) monetarily. If you think that there are not dommes who try to manipulate or compel subs into giving tribute, our observations and perspectives about what realities exist differ.
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Everyone wants something, and it's up to each person to find his/her appropriate counterpart.
Sure, and a sub who does not want to give to a relationship would be well matched with a domme who is seeking to give him what he seeks for monetary exchange. However, it is not uncommon for these subs to direct their approach at dommes who seek a full relationship and not just sexual jollies. Similarly, it is not uncommon for dommes who seek tribute for sake of monetary gain to direct their approach at subs who seek a personal relationship.
We often see complaints from dommes about such an experience. In my opinion, a complaint from subs about the corresponding experience, as is the case in the OP here, is equally valid.
My comments are not directed at those who engage in such arrangements with mutual consent, but those whose approach is underhanded.
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Do you really know how all poly relationships work, and who provides for whom?
Yes, I know plenty of poly people and have befriended and dated several. I concede that some may have their relationships set in a way that one cares for another. However, because poly people can have relationships without having to quit their job and have others provide for them, I don't think the nature of the relationship necessitates being cared for in this manner, which is the point I make to dispute that presented by LunaVenus.
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While the subject of the thread focuses on monetary tribute, past discussions and some of her comments might suggest labor under similar justification. I hold the same perspective with respect to labor: (1) I support provision of labor where it is presented willfully versus compelled due to the ratios, and (2) to say that receiving labor is a necessity usually does not address the primary motivation, which is the convenience of receiving labor.
.Cheers,
Sea
Oh dear Sea. You are a strong advocate for fairness and a 50/50 relationship. Isn't that what's called vanilla? Even before I knew I wanted an unfair and unbalanced relationship, I never and would never be with a man who thought that all he had to do for me is show up. This is not a ratio thing for me, since I only discovered this "lifestyle" about 6.5years ago. It's a principle thing, because I grew up with a strong father, who did everything in his power to take care of his wife. M
I am confused. I don't see how the text you have quoted leads to the conclusion that you state. The scenario I reference is hardly vanilla or even 50/50.
Indeed I am a strong advocate for fairness when it comes to consent. I think defying consent outright is unequivocally wrong. I think manipulating consent for self-serving reasons is unfair. Do you feel differently?
I also grew up with a strong father, who did everything in his power to take care of his wife and children. However, if anyone told him he had to somehow purchase through money or labor their affection, he would not go for it. I feel the same way. To the extent you suggest that those who object to tribute would not take care of someone they love, I disagree.
Cheers,
Sea
< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 1/18/2009 3:26:29 PM >
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RE: Tributes and Genuine Dommes - 
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