Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

The Holodeck ... or the Matrix?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/18/2009 2:43:35 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline

Some interesting tentative findings that support the possibility that the entire universe (reality) is actually a holographic projection of the actual universe ...

Our world may be a giant hologram
15 January 2009 by Marcus Chown
Magazine issue 2691

Extracts:

For many months, the GEO600 team-members had been scratching their heads over inexplicable noise that is plaguing their giant detector. Then, out of the blue, a researcher approached them with an explanation. In fact, he had even predicted the noise before he knew they were detecting it. According to Craig Hogan, a physicist at the Fermilab particle physics lab in Batavia, Illinois, GEO600 has stumbled upon the fundamental limit of space-time - the point where space-time stops behaving like the smooth continuum Einstein described and instead dissolves into "grains", just as a newspaper photograph dissolves into dots as you zoom in. "It looks like GEO600 is being buffeted by the microscopic quantum convulsions of space-time," says Hogan.

...

"If the GEO600 result is what I suspect it is, then we are all living in a giant cosmic hologram."

The idea that we live in a hologram probably sounds absurd, but it is a natural extension of our best understanding of black holes, and something with a pretty firm theoretical footing. It has also been surprisingly helpful for physicists wrestling with theories of how the universe works at its most fundamental level.

The holograms you find on credit cards and banknotes are etched on two-dimensional plastic films. When light bounces off them, it recreates the appearance of a 3D image. In the 1990s physicists Leonard Susskind and Nobel prizewinner Gerard 't Hooft suggested that the same principle might apply to the universe as a whole. Our everyday experience might itself be a holographic projection of physical processes that take place on a distant, 2D surface.

The "holographic principle" challenges our sensibilities. It seems hard to believe that you woke up, brushed your teeth and are reading this article because of something happening on the boundary of the universe. No one knows what it would mean for us if we really do live in a hologram, yet theorists have good reasons to believe that many aspects of the holographic principle are true.
More comments and speculation here.

Perhaps all life is indeed an illusion.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/18/2009 3:05:09 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
It's not even April 1st.

_____________________________



(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/18/2009 3:17:51 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
This is indeed the Matrix.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/18/2009 3:40:06 PM   
awmslave


Posts: 599
Joined: 3/31/2006
Status: offline
It tells me human brain can construct multiple possible logical models how the Unverse evolved and how it works. Interesting to me is the fact that the Universe evolves inside the framework of the fixed set of laws and principles that guide the evolution once the process has been initiated. Human mind can figure out the complex principles sometimes even not having empirical data in hand. One thing I would like to know and put more research focus on is: how human brain works? If we understand the last many questions can be answered. Certainly, solving brain mechanism would cause many problems as well (meaning ethical, religious etc...).

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/18/2009 3:48:53 PM   
GimpinDenial


Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/20/2008
Status: offline
There have been several theories in circulation that Human beings are a scientific study/experiment conducted by more intelligent beings (as if we were the rats)
This would explain the universe being a hologram.....
to keep us (the rats) within a confined and controlled experiment (the maze)

Thanks for the info of this Firm....


_____________________________

Resident Gimp
I can only hope that in death, the sins of my life will be forgiven.

(in reply to awmslave)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/18/2009 4:31:54 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline
Dayum - confirmation from Physicists that what I've said for years may in fact be true rather than simply a joke - Relatives are a joke played on us by the gods.

_____________________________

Rhi
Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Essential Scentsations

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/18/2009 6:39:44 PM   
rexrgisformidoni


Posts: 578
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline
I'd like the matrix...
I think one day the net will evolve into something very similar to the matrix.


_____________________________

when all you have is a hammer, everything begins to look like nails

“I am the punishment of God...If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.”

Genghis Khan

(in reply to hizgeorgiapeach)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/18/2009 6:46:42 PM   
GimpinDenial


Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/20/2008
Status: offline
And find out that the real world means eating bad food in caves while traveling in sewers because the atmosphere is almost inhabitable?

meh...

"Ignorance is bliss" -Cypher


_____________________________

Resident Gimp
I can only hope that in death, the sins of my life will be forgiven.

(in reply to rexrgisformidoni)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/18/2009 9:06:39 PM   
ArizonaSunSwitch


Posts: 205
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GimpinDenial

And find out that the real world means eating bad food in caves while traveling in sewers because the atmosphere is almost inhabitable?

meh...

"Ignorance is bliss" -Cypher



Don't worry, enslaving humanity is only something another human would find interesting or useful.

(in reply to GimpinDenial)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/18/2009 11:24:29 PM   
mydomsabstrd


Posts: 1775
Joined: 10/5/2007
Status: offline
ooh ooh wanna be trapped in the holodeck with Data,           ooops wrong site lmao


sorry that line "fully functional and programmed in multiple techniques" always got my juices going.   yes im a geek, proud of it lol

_____________________________

damn right
i used to care.....now i take a pill for that
i said shush girl, shush your lips, do the hellen keller and talk with your hips!!!!

(in reply to ArizonaSunSwitch)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/18/2009 11:28:03 PM   
GimpinDenial


Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/20/2008
Status: offline
And yet he only had three lovers in his life....
Rest In Peace Data.......
you will be missed
<sniffle>

< Message edited by GimpinDenial -- 1/18/2009 11:29:51 PM >


_____________________________

Resident Gimp
I can only hope that in death, the sins of my life will be forgiven.

(in reply to mydomsabstrd)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/18/2009 11:29:44 PM   
mydomsabstrd


Posts: 1775
Joined: 10/5/2007
Status: offline
i know what a waste, lol  he will be back though, some how lol

_____________________________

damn right
i used to care.....now i take a pill for that
i said shush girl, shush your lips, do the hellen keller and talk with your hips!!!!

(in reply to GimpinDenial)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/19/2009 6:14:32 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
FR:

Some more interesting speculation and a reference book:

The Holographic Universe

Extracts:

In 1982 a remarkable event took place. At the University of Paris a research team led by physicist Alain Aspect performed what may turn out to be one of the most important experiments of the 20th century. You did not hear about it on the evening news. In fact, unless you are in the habit of reading scientific journals you probably have never even heard Aspect's name, though there are some who believe his discovery may change the face of science.

...

Aspect and his team discovered that under certain circumstances subatomic particles such as electrons are able to instantaneously communicate with each other regardless of the distance separating them. It doesn't matter whether they are 10 feet or 10 billion miles apart.

...

University of London physicist David Bohm, for example, believes Aspect's findings imply that objective reality does not exist, that despite its apparent solidity the universe is at heart a phantasm, a gigantic and splendidly detailed hologram.

...

This insight suggested to Bohm another way of understanding Aspect's discovery. Bohm believes the reason subatomic particles are able to remain in contact with one another regardless of the distance separating them is not because they are sending some sort of mysterious signal back and forth, but because their separateness is an illusion. He argues that at some deeper level of reality such particles are not individual entities, but are actually extensions of the same fundamental something.

...

n addition to its phantomlike nature, such a universe would possess other rather startling features. If the apparent separateness of subatomic particles is illusory, it means that at a deeper level of reality all things in the universe are infinitely interconnected.

The electrons in a carbon atom in the human brain are connected to the subatomic particles that comprise every salmon that swims, every heart that beats, and every star that shimmers in the sky.

Everything interpenetrates everything, and although human nature may seek to categorize and pigeonhole and subdivide, the various phenomena of the universe, all apportionments are of necessity artificial and all of nature is ultimately a seamless web.

In a holographic universe, even time and space could no longer be viewed as fundamentals. Because concepts such as location break down in a universe in which nothing is truly separate from anything else, time and three-dimensional space, like the images of the fish on the TV monitors, would also have to be viewed as projections of this deeper order.

At its deeper level reality is a sort of superhologram in which the past, present, and future all exist simultaneously. This suggests that given the proper tools it might even be possible to someday reach into the superholographic level of reality and pluck out scenes from the long-forgotten past.

What else the superhologram contains is an open-ended question. Allowing, for the sake of argument, that the superhologram is the matrix that has given birth to everything in our universe, at the very least it contains every subatomic particle that has been or will be -- every configuration of matter and energy that is possible, from snowflakes to quasars, from bluü whales to gamma rays. It must be seen as a sort of cosmic storehouse of "All That Is."

...

Bohm is not the only researcher who has found evidence that the universe is a hologram. Working independently in the field of brain research, Standford neurophysiologist Karl Pribram has also become persuaded of the holographic nature of reality.

Pribram was drawn to the holographic model by the puzzle of how and where memories are stored in the brain. For decades numerous studies have shown that rather than being confined to a specific location, memories are dispersed throughout the brain.

In a series of landmark experiments in the 1920s, brain scientist Karl Lashley found that no matter what portion of a rat's brain he removed he was unable to eradicate its memory of how to perform complex tasks it had learned prior to surgery. The only problem was that no one was able to come up with a mechanism that might explain this curious "whole in every part" nature of memory storage.

Then in the 1960s Pribram encountered the concept of holography and realized he had found the explanation brain scientists had been looking for. Pribram believes memories are encoded not in neurons, or small groupings of neurons, but in patterns of nerve impulses that crisscross the entire brain in the same way that patterns of laser light interference crisscross the entire area of a piece of film containing a holographic image. In other words, Pribram believes the brain is itself a hologram.

...

But the most mind-boggling aspect of Pribram's holographic model of the brain is what happens when it is put together with Bohm's theory. For if the concreteness of the world is but a secondary reality and what is "there" is actually a holographic blur of frequencies, and if the brain is also a hologram and only selects some of the frequencies out of this blur and mathematically transforms them into sensory perceptions, what becomes of objective reality?

Put quite simply, it ceases to exist. As the religions of the East have long upheld, the material world is Maya, an illusion, and although we may think we are physical beings moving through a physical world, this too is an illusion.

We are really "receivers" floating through a kaleidoscopic sea of frequency, and what we extract from this sea and transmogrify into physical reality is but one channel from many extracted out of the superhologram.

This striking new picture of reality, the synthesis of Bohm and Pribram's views, has come to be called the Holographic Paradigm, and although many scientists have greeted it with skepticism, it has galvanized others. A small but growing group of researchers believe it may be the most accurate model of reality science has arrived at thus far.

More than that, some believe it may solve some mysteries that have never before been explainable by science and even establish the paranormal as a part of nature. Numerous researchers, including Bohm and Pribram, have noted that many para-psychological phenomena become much more understandable in terms of the holographic paradigm.

In a universe in which individual brains are actually indivisible portions of the greater hologram and everything is infinitely interconnected, telepathy may merely be the accessing of the holographic level. It is obviously much easier to understand how information can travel from the mind of individual 'A' to that of individual 'B' at a far distance point and helps to understand a number of unsolved puzzles in psychology. In particular, Stansilov Grof feels the holographic paradigm offers a model for understanding many of the baffling phenomena experienced by individuals during altered states of consciousness.

...

The holographic paradigm also has implications for so-called hard sciences like biology. Keith Floyd, a psychologist at Virginia Intermont College, has pointed out that if the concreteness of reality is but a holographic illusion, it would no longer be true to say the brain produces consciousness. Rather, it is Consciousness that creates the appearance of the brain as well as the body and everything else around us we interpret as physical.

Such a turnabout in the way we view biological structures has caused researchers to point out that medicine and our understanding of the healing process could also be transformed by the holographic paradigm. If the apparent physical structure of the body is but a holographic projection of consciousness, it becomes clear that each of us is much more responsible for our health than current medical wisdom allows. What we now view as miraculous remissions of disease may actually be due to changes in consciousness which in turn effect changes in the hologram of the body. Similarly, controversial new healing techniques such as visualization may work so well because in the holographic domain of thought images are ultimately as real as reality. Even visions and experiences involving non-ordinary reality become explainable under the holographic paradigm.

*********


I'm thinking Matrix as well.

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to mydomsabstrd)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/19/2009 7:00:36 AM   
Katchoo


Posts: 57
Joined: 11/11/2007
Status: offline
It is rather early in the morning for examination of the priciples of reality, but i will comment Firm, that on reading the excerpts you included of this theory i was struck by the concept of parallax (on the reception end) somewhat resembling the Big Bang theory. Big Bang does not provide any explanation for the original source, only that it is a conversion from finite to infinite. Your holographic model would explain the differences noted in velocities of distant bodies as well as the general expansion of bodies: the light/energy is scattering outward from the 2D source. This also seems a function of time, mathematically. 

In a visual hologram however, the image is projected on ONE side of the 2D image, that is to say, if you were to peel the backing off the hologram you would no longer see it, because there would be nothing for the light/energy to reflect on, like scraping the backing off of a mirror. If the light/energy is passing through the hologram, as in a projector, then the source is a separate entity making the hologram a filter only. Thus the inherent question is: where does the energy for the tranmission originate from?

i do find it difficult to reconcile black bodies with the holographic principle, unless that is opaque fabric of what is on "the other side" of the reflection model. i also have a problem based on mass: how could a projection of something be more solid/tightly joined than the original hologram? Our bodies do absorb energy. The processes of matter are inherently 3D in all our understanding, and i am unable to wrap my mind around all that dynamism originating from an interference pattern. i am by no means some great physicist though. i will now read the book to which you refer... thanks!

Yoda would greatly approve of the nod to interconnectedness...

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/19/2009 11:07:14 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
Katchoo,

The article I first quoted was my first exposure to "The Holographic Universe", so I'm still absorbing the possibilities.

From a purely rhetorical point of view, what is very interesting to me is that this points out a very strong flaw in conventional belief systems, especially when it comes to atheism and religious beliefs.

I've entered many political debates in which "science" is quoted as an unshakable description of reality, but which I classify as another belief system. A belief system based on faith, just as any religious belief system.

Not only does the possibility of a holographic universe give great credence to this observation, it also allows the possibility that the universe might well be considered "the mind of God" (although I'm not prepared to make that claim, the simple fact that it may be a scientific possibility is ... interesting).

I think I'll be referring to this thread from time to time, when I next get involved in a theoretical debate over the intersection between belief, religion, politics and science.

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Katchoo)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/19/2009 11:44:06 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

Hi FirmhandKY

I've got to say, this reminds me of several very intense er, enhanced consciousness experiments that I conducted back in the 1980's which I thought I had forgotten all about...

Fascinating articles, FH. I had read the first one earlier today on Yahoo but the other one I  had not seen.

Thanks for posting!

Thomas

< Message edited by Sanity -- 1/19/2009 11:47:31 AM >


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/19/2009 1:49:07 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
You're welcome Sanity.

You know ... one of my thoughts about what "hell" is, could easily be explained if such a holographic reality exists, and matches somewhat the ideas of "the mind" being a holographic receiver in this universe.

I tie this in with another book that I read years ago, and recently reread, about the study of Evil.  (The People of The Lie by M. Scott Peck).

Basically, Peck theorizes that "evil" in humanity is a deep narcissism that doesn't allow an individual to feel other people as human beings, and which captures them in a ever tighening spiral of deception.  Like Dante's Inferno, Hell is a place where such people are allowed to continue their existence, suffering from the defects of their own personality.

Being trapped for eternity in indefensible narcissism, after the death of the "physical" body could well describe the internal state of such an individual, if the "receiver" part of intellect survives the corporal death of the body, in a holographic universe, with a holographic based consciousness.

This could well be part of the origin and a description of the human soul.

The concept of a holographic universe is rich in so many concepts. 

Firm

PS Edited to add a more detailed description of "evil" from the Peck book:
"Evil is the exercise of power, the imposing of one's will upon others by overt or covert coercion". "The core of evil is ego-centricity, whereby others are sacrificed rather than the ego of the individual."  ... According to Dr. Peck (psychology) ego-centric persons are utterly dedicated to preserving their self-serving image. They cultivate an image of being a good, right, God-fearing citizens. They specialize in self-deceit and thus are People of the Lie.

(Taken from one of the Amazon reviews)


< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 1/19/2009 1:59:27 PM >


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/19/2009 1:53:03 PM   
PrincessJ77


Posts: 372
Joined: 7/25/2008
From: point A
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Some interesting tentative findings that support the possibility that the entire universe (reality) is actually a holographic projection of the actual universe ...

Perhaps all life is indeed an illusion.

Firm



I'll have what you're having...


_____________________________

Yours respectfully,
PJ,
Capodecima,
Subby Mafia



(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/19/2009 2:34:53 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

Not a receiver, Firm, because according to the theory there are no transmissions or receptions of any kind because everything is as one, everything happens at once. Everything reacts instantly, sort of like the way schools of fish move as one fish but only more perfectly and on a cosmic scale. There is no space, no time... no you, no me or left or right. We're just different faces of the same it, call it God or matter or call it whatever you want to call it... and there could be a hell, sure - which would be experienced by all at the same time our interconnected "all" is in "heaven".



< Message edited by Sanity -- 1/19/2009 2:51:13 PM >


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/19/2009 2:48:07 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
To add another twist to the theory, what if the Universe were a holographic projection of a multidimensional surface, a surface that is more like a 3D topographical map than a plain flat image. There are obviously layers to reality that have to be accounted for, layers to every physical object that are difficult to imagine how they could be imaged.

Then there are the electrical currents in living things, and those sorts of thing would have to be accounted for as well...

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094