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RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/28/2009 12:55:11 AM   
Nikitaa


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You have discovered the secret of the Universe

Another secret for you.

I am the one






edit...the one had to make edit because she misspell universe as university

< Message edited by Nikitaa -- 1/28/2009 12:56:32 AM >

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
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RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/28/2009 10:15:46 AM   
Termyn8or


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Thought I was it, oh darn.

T

(in reply to Nikitaa)
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RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/29/2009 9:28:48 AM   
Katchoo


Posts: 57
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

..essentially, deciding for ourselves that all information received from our senses refelcts a concrete universe is a leap of faith. However, for all but a few serious mental illnesses it is a leap of faith we all share. Therefore the aditional leap of faith to decide that there is a God is on top of the everyday ordinary faith that a scientist read a dial correctly.
i don't think there's any argument that, in the above context, all knowledge of the outside world is an act of faith. However to equate that with the same faith shown by a religious person is a tad disingenuous. All science needs is the ordinary leap of faith that the evidence of their senses reflects a concrete universe.


What is the difference between the faith of a religious person, and the faith of a scientist?

Firm




Math.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
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RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/29/2009 5:52:06 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Katchoo

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

..essentially, deciding for ourselves that all information received from our senses refelcts a concrete universe is a leap of faith. However, for all but a few serious mental illnesses it is a leap of faith we all share. Therefore the aditional leap of faith to decide that there is a God is on top of the everyday ordinary faith that a scientist read a dial correctly.
i don't think there's any argument that, in the above context, all knowledge of the outside world is an act of faith. However to equate that with the same faith shown by a religious person is a tad disingenuous. All science needs is the ordinary leap of faith that the evidence of their senses reflects a concrete universe.


What is the difference between the faith of a religious person, and the faith of a scientist?

Firm




Math.


Bullshit.

Not all science is math.

Firm


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(in reply to Katchoo)
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RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/29/2009 5:57:02 PM   
Nikitaa


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quote:



Bullshit.

Not all science is math.

Firm



What science has not any math?

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
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RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/29/2009 8:40:11 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikitaa

What science has not any math?



...psychology......(stamps foot) and it is so a science......

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RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/29/2009 10:28:57 PM   
MistressXahDee


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From: San Diego, Ca.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikitaa

What science has not any math?



...psychology......(stamps foot) and it is so a science......

is not... (sticks out tongue)

(in reply to philosophy)
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RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/29/2009 10:51:06 PM   
Katchoo


Posts: 57
Joined: 11/11/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikitaa

What science has not any math?



...psychology......(stamps foot) and it is so a science......



Lol... psych is a pseudoscience.

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/29/2009 11:09:00 PM   
Nikitaa


Posts: 416
Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikitaa

What science has not any math?



...psychology......(stamps foot) and it is so a science......



Wiki says psychology is applied science. I read definition and I think if person enters this field the person needs some math.

edit....after more reading I see math is needed for some parts of psychology, not all.

< Message edited by Nikitaa -- 1/29/2009 11:11:58 PM >

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/29/2009 11:11:01 PM   
Katchoo


Posts: 57
Joined: 11/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Katchoo

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

..essentially, deciding for ourselves that all information received from our senses refelcts a concrete universe is a leap of faith. However, for all but a few serious mental illnesses it is a leap of faith we all share. Therefore the aditional leap of faith to decide that there is a God is on top of the everyday ordinary faith that a scientist read a dial correctly.
i don't think there's any argument that, in the above context, all knowledge of the outside world is an act of faith. However to equate that with the same faith shown by a religious person is a tad disingenuous. All science needs is the ordinary leap of faith that the evidence of their senses reflects a concrete universe.


What is the difference between the faith of a religious person, and the faith of a scientist?

Firm




Math.


Bullshit.

Not all science is math.

Firm




You asked what the difference was between the faith of a religious person and the faith of a scientist. The goal of science is reproduceability. I should be able to do the experiment and get the same results, or observe what someone else has seen, and so should the next ten thousand or ten billion people who do it. It is a 100% statistical probability if done correctly. It is going to happen; there is no faith involved barring the already touched-on hokeyrific mentally-masturbatory "what if nothing is real" argument. All science considered fact is either based on total reproduceability or math, which are inherently the same thing.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/29/2009 11:20:42 PM   
Katchoo


Posts: 57
Joined: 11/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikitaa

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikitaa

What science has not any math?



...psychology......(stamps foot) and it is so a science......



Wiki says psychology is applied science. I read definition and I think if person enters this field the person needs some math.

edit....after more reading I see math is needed for some parts of psychology, and not all.


They seem the same but they aren't, although there is some crossover. Psychological theories are based on observations, but are not consistent for all people; there are also usually several conflicting theories explaining one phenomenon. "Applied science" refers to the research aspect of it.

(in reply to Nikitaa)
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RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 1/30/2009 4:12:26 AM   
GimpinDenial


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandK
What is the difference between the faith of a religious person, and the faith of a scientist?

Firm



I see what you mean......
Faith has nothing to do with math...

For faith is the act of believing  with complete trust that something is, when it cannot be proven...



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(in reply to Katchoo)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: The Holodeck ... or the Matrix? - 5/29/2010 9:20:52 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

An update to Firm's thread, if I may. The Hologram theory is in the news...


quote:

At NYC sci fest, asking 'What if we're holograms?'

NEW YORK – Brian Greene works in a world where scientific reasoning rules all and imagination leads to the most unlikely truths.

Greene and other "string theorists" are exploring a possible scenario in which people and the world around us are actually a 3-D holographic projection of two-dimensional data that exists outside the accessible universe.

It's a concept so mindbending for those who don't understand the complex math behind it that many might decide it's best left to the academics. But Greene wants to build public excitement about science, even as the U.S. loses ground in some areas — and intends to bring even the most complex ideas to the masses at this week's World Science Festival, which starts June 2.

"The idea is to ... find the compelling narrative and stories that allow these programs to really feel like an experience and not a lesson," says Greene, wearing a leather jacket that practically exudes old-school, rock-star cool. It's an appropriate look for a man who has brought the possible inner workings of the universe to scores of non-geniuses through his book "The Elegant Universe" and the PBS specials by the same name. The physicist founded the festival in 2008 with his wife, Tracy Day. In a way, they say, it's an extension of his work translating into layman's terms the fundamentals of string theory — the idea that the universe and its most fundamental forces could be best explained if everything around us were made up of minuscule, vibrating strings.

<snip>

One of the more popular science-fiction scenarios — an alternate universe in which people are transformed to similar but evil or subtly different versions of themselves — is but a remote possibility, he says. Instead, it's more likely that multiple universes exist alongside each other like bubbles in a bubble bath. The extremely fast expansion of the universe in our distant past, combined with elements of string theory, suggest this as a possibility, Greene said.

It is almost as difficult to wrap one's head around as the possibility that we are all holograms projected over a distance, unable to detect the illusory nature of our 3-D world — another topic covered by a festival panel.


Greene's attempt to explain where our consciousness might reside, if we are indeed simply projections, is intriguing and perhaps less than comforting:


"It's there, too," he says. "Consciousness is nothing but the physical processes taking place in the brain. ... Consciousness is just another interaction of particles."

Full article here




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(in reply to FirmhandKY)
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