RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ?

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ?

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/22/2009 3:06:09 AM

nafakcha

Posts: 81
Joined: 12/28/2008
From: Melbourne, FL
Status: offline

Yes, I've definitely noticed it. I think stereotypes are there as classifications and are generally horribly inaccurate. However, without classifications it would be hard to communicate anything. That doesn't mean I like the way the current system works. It just promotes misinformation - but everyone knowing what a car is, is definitely required to report the newest mandated safety features for cars.

While yes there was an incident of abuse in my very early childhood, it was by no means an event that defines who I am. Yet it is something that everyone goes back to, despite the fact that my reasons for being in this lifestyle are better justified by later life events and the events, people and beliefs that shaped my life and define my personality both in my professional and personal lives have nothing IMO to do with the incident of abuse.

I think it is absurd to think that as common as childhood abuse is in the general population that its any higher here. I think people are trying to justify and explain what they cannot understand.

Keiko

_____________________________

"To seek, to strive, to find and not to yield."
~ Ulysses by Lord Alfred Tennyson

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 41

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/22/2009 9:31:50 AM

Zmey

Posts: 40
Joined: 9/23/2007
Status: offline

Stereotypes are formed due to the lack of knowledge. We're wired to "fill in the blanks" Almost every nation has a stereotype attached to it. It is difficult not to form one when you know only few individuals. More to it I see my stereotypical thoughts irrational and ignore it. However I wouldn't step on a rake just to see if I'll get hit in a head or not.

< Message edited by Zmey -- 1/22/2009 9:32:52 AM >

(in reply to nafakcha)

Post #: 42

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/26/2009 11:22:37 AM

Naberius

Posts: 98
Joined: 1/7/2009
From: Dalton, GA
Status: offline

Society and moral beliefs really. I live in the bible belt and trust me, all the religious yahoo's state how immoral it is to inflict pain amongst a woman. To be encouraged by the devil no less and how impure one is flows through the media like a firestorm only because the lifestyle is the doormat for such beliefs. It is easier to blame a lifestyle that is misunderstood, then it is to actually learn about it and come to a better conclusion. But, God forbid if a preacher opens a kink mag as then he has sinned and must come to terms with God. Thus, blaming and accusations (judging, which is a sin to begin with) are much easier to do than to accept a different way of life of enjoyment. I've had it out with a few priests and usually shut them up when I recite scripture lol.

_____________________________

We do not learn without pain -Aristotle

(in reply to Zmey)

Post #: 43

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/26/2009 12:05:00 PM

T1981

Posts: 557
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline

WARNING: LONG RANT AHEAD:

I know I'm jumping into this late, but I'm on the other side of the issue - the part where because I did have an abused childhood, people both out AND in the scene are uncomfortable with it. I'm always a little embarressed to admit that I was abused, because I'd LIKE to say I was one of those people who came to this without any trauma, because that's cooler. That's safer. That's much less complicated.

But for me, that's also not true. So I'm writing this, and I'm sure I'll write it again.

I DO believe that my abused childhood was part of what brought me to D/s. I DO believe that getting whacked with a belt by my father as a child is part of why I find belts so terrifying, yet such a great source of pride for when I do manage to take it well. I DO believe that my being sexually abused in fact plays a part in how and why I love humiliation and objectification. I DO believe that the trauma I sustained and the ways I chose to deal with it (self-mutilation as a teenager) were part of what wired my brain to accept that pain can be a good thing.

And that makes alot of folks in the scene uncomfortable.

For good reason, I understand. No one wants to be the person who merely acting as a player in recreating abuse. No one wants to play with someone who might haul off and become disassociated due to scratching old wounds. I get that.

But I've done the work, the therapy, and there is constant, constant communication between my husband and I about all of this. Still, I'm always dreading the question from a potential play partner "Have you been abused?" because I'm afraid that they will not want to play with me when they find out. Because I'm afraid that they will assume the only reason I'm in this lifestyle is because I don't know any better.

And while understandable, it's not entirely fair. (I know, listen to the sub whining about what's fair!

) I didn't let the actions of those who abused me define me, so it's truly upsetting when OTHER people allow the actions of my abusers to define me.

_____________________________

"Nothing is pointless, every single thing you do resonates." -Pintsize

(in reply to Naberius)

Post #: 44

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/26/2009 12:25:28 PM

feydeplume

Posts: 935
Joined: 12/24/2008
Status: offline

You are a brave and wonderful person. The things that happen to us all impact who we are both good and bad. I too had a horrible childhood. I will not get into details, no need to freak anyone out or give anyone nightmares, I have that taken care of thanks. Did it "lead" me to this life, no. Does it give me a different understanding of what it is that i do? maybe. Do i ever freak out from some action or sensation? not so much actually. But I really don't like telling people because they stop seeing me and start imaging what i "must" have felt and being angry at the people that did it and all sorts of other things. It takes them somewhere far away from me and makes me sort of not exist for them for a while. THAT is the part that bugs me the most, that they see things that happened way back when as happening now, for them, like some made for TV movie and i cease to exist. I don't think they even realize that they, in a small way, are doing to me the same thing the "bad" people did way back when, treating me like I am not there, not real, don't matter.

But to be honest with myself and others, I get it more from the vanilla crowd than i do from the leather or BDSM crowds.

_____________________________

Wait! Are those my pants?
If it has testicle or tires, it's gonna give you the fidgets.
Pretend I said something witty and laugh.

(in reply to T1981)

Post #: 45

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/26/2009 12:49:49 PM

T1981

Posts: 557
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: feydeplume

You are a brave and wonderful person. The things that happen to us all impact who we are both good and bad. I too had a horrible childhood. I will not get into details, no need to freak anyone out or give anyone nightmares, I have that taken care of thanks. Did it "lead" me to this life, no. Does it give me a different understanding of what it is that i do? maybe. Do i ever freak out from some action or sensation? not so much actually. But I really don't like telling people because they stop seeing me and start imaging what i "must" have felt and being angry at the people that did it and all sorts of other things. It takes them somewhere far away from me and makes me sort of not exist for them for a while. THAT is the part that bugs me the most, that they see things that happened way back when as happening now, for them, like some made for TV movie and i cease to exist. I don't think they even realize that they, in a small way, are doing to me the same thing the "bad" people did way back when, treating me like I am not there, not real, don't matter.

But to be honest with myself and others, I get it more from the vanilla crowd than i do from the leather or BDSM crowds.

THAT hits it right on the head, right there! Thank you so much for that! Exactly! I, too, get that more from the vanilla crowd, but when I hear people constantly talk about how they've never been abused and being interested in BDSM, I begin to wonder if the implicated flipside to that is that having BEEN abused and interested in BDSM in shameful and wrong.

Which it's not, in all reality, and I know that this part of my own insecurities and fears that I'm working on. And I have yet to meet someone who outright said "You were abused, go back to your vanilla life!" But there is no doubt that there IS a stigma attatched to having been abused and in being in this scene. That's what I'm trying to work through.

_____________________________

"Nothing is pointless, every single thing you do resonates." -Pintsize

(in reply to feydeplume)

Post #: 46

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/26/2009 4:12:14 PM

GoddessTeaze

Posts: 1125
Joined: 10/14/2006
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: T1981

But I've done the work, the therapy, and there is constant, constant communication between my husband and I about all of this. Still, I'm always dreading the question from a potential play partner "Have you been abused?" because I'm afraid that they will not want to play with me when they find out. Because I'm afraid that they will assume the only reason I'm in this lifestyle is because I don't know any better.

First of all I want to say to you, and to feydeplume,
how I admire you two girls, for sharing your story's about being abused. I've too a history of abuse, which is all dealt with,
and it has (also) formed Me into who I'm today. I was also asked
by My counsellor, years ago, if it was due to the abuse,
that Bdsm attracted to Me. I told him to take a hike,
because I don't think that's what got Me into it in the first place.

I do believe that he tried to understood how it worked,
and that counsellors in general try to understand people
so they can help others better, and try to find out
why Wwe do what Wwe do.

I've heard years ago that 1 out of the 4 girl was abused in the USA.
If those figures are true, then it's not strange that a big part
of the woman in D/s are abused. But if it's a typical
reason why one chooses to start with D/s?
For some maybe, for others not.

We can't generalise, so it would be nice to investigate.

What I noticed with the two of you T1981 & feydeplume,
That in My believes you both selling yourselves short
for not telling what happened.
I truly understand your fears for their responds,
but if they truly love you girls, which you deserve,
then they could handle that too.

If not...?

I would want to know it from My sub,
and embrace him/her with all I'm.

I wish you both enough.

Warm Greetingz

GoddezzT`

_____________________________

~* The only disability in life is a bad attitude. ~Scott Hamilton*~

~*Beauty is not in the face; beauty is a light in the heart. ~Kahlil Gibran*~

(in reply to T1981)

Post #: 47

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/26/2009 5:07:30 PM

T1981

Posts: 557
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline

You're welcome, GoddessTeaze, and thank you for the compliment! I really appreciate that! My husband knows about the abuse, I think I may have even laid it out on our first date years ago. He's been so helpful in my own recovery, and I truly believe that my journey through BDSM with him has actually HELPED me heal in some very vital and important ways.

But we have recently found a couple that we are hoping to develop a long term friendship/play partner relationship with, and it may be prudent for me to bring it up with them eventually......that is a very good point.

_____________________________

"Nothing is pointless, every single thing you do resonates." -Pintsize

(in reply to GoddessTeaze)

Post #: 48

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/26/2009 5:35:24 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: T1981
it may be prudent

It's essential. They need to know where potential triggers are. It's like informing someone of any other medical condition. If they flip, they'll get over it. Consider it a way for you to help them grow in their understanding of their own sexuality.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to T1981)

Post #: 49

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/26/2009 5:43:01 PM

T1981

Posts: 557
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline

That's true - it's I just don't really have triggers anymore. The only trigger that I can even pull up is that I don't like - and this is a hard limit - being fondled or kissed as I'm waking up after a full night's worth of sleep. But we don't do sleepovers. We have yet to come across anything at all that even makes me think of the abuse, outside of the belt thing (which I do tell all play partners immediately, that the belt is something that I have to give express permission for due to being beaten with one as a child). People seem much more comfortable with the idea of physical abuse triggers, so that one is an easy one for me to tell people about.

I haven't thought about bringing up it IN CASE something goes haywire and I get triggered.....so that's also a very good point. It's just thinking of things that could possibly trigger is difficult, since I haven't been triggered in years upon years.

A nerve-racking one, for me, but a very good point.

< Message edited by T1981 -- 1/26/2009 5:44:18 PM >

_____________________________

"Nothing is pointless, every single thing you do resonates." -Pintsize

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 50

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/27/2009 8:54:25 AM

GoddessTeaze

Posts: 1125
Joined: 10/14/2006
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: T1981
it may be prudent

It's essential. They need to know where potential triggers are. It's like informing someone of any other medical condition. If they flip, they'll get over it. Consider it a way for you to help them grow in their understanding of their own sexuality.

I fully agree with Redmagic.
It's important to let the playpartners know,
for all the good reasons.

I wish you enough.

GoddezzT`

_____________________________

~* The only disability in life is a bad attitude. ~Scott Hamilton*~

~*Beauty is not in the face; beauty is a light in the heart. ~Kahlil Gibran*~

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 51

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/27/2009 10:37:31 AM

feydeplume

Posts: 935
Joined: 12/24/2008
Status: offline

Thank you for your kind words GoddessTeaze, but sadly, your comment sort of prove the point i was making. Now, in your mind, we are "women who have overcome so much" and you are thinking about you and your sub. I fully understand that we are more than that to you, but for a moment, we weren't people, we were brave victims and statistics. THAT is the part that makes it hard for me to tell people sometimes.

I always disclose the triggers i know to anyone i play with as i see it as a safety issue, for me not for them. If they can't still SEE me, then i don't want them hitting me. Their heart won't be in it and they will hold back emotionally. I speak from experience on this one.

I talk freely about the rape and abuse (but not the specifics) because i refuse to keep a toxic secret and i want people to SEE that it is just something that happened, like my broken shoulder or one of my highly amusing but unfortunate skiing mishaps (ever lost YOUR pants on the lift? its a great story, dispite the hypothermia). And the more women who speak out, the more women CAN speak out and the sooner, in my perfect world, the victim stereotype will lessen and we can all get on with our lives.

_____________________________

Wait! Are those my pants?
If it has testicle or tires, it's gonna give you the fidgets.
Pretend I said something witty and laugh.

(in reply to GoddessTeaze)

Post #: 52

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/27/2009 10:49:33 AM

MsDDom

Posts: 368
Joined: 1/1/2009
From: GA
Status: offline

simply, i think when stereotypes are born it is due to lack of knowledge...in this case, lack of knowledge of the lifestyle.
and further, when things exist outside of societal norms, it is deemed abNORMAL behavior--but who says what society deems NORMAL is??
nevertheless, if a man or woman desires bondage for example, society says something is wrong with them and equally a Person wanting to tie them up has a problem too. anything not acceptable means there are mental/psychological issue with the I/individual.

in essence, W/we have to get use to it...but W/we know the truth and that's all that matters.

_____________________________

...:: MsDDom ::...

... live Life honestly ...

(in reply to feydeplume)

Post #: 53

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/27/2009 11:06:27 AM

Phoenixpower

Posts: 8098
Status: offline

Well my abusive past (on a personal level at home and on a sexual level outside of my family environment) does not has much to do with it why I do enjoy being submissive. I always enjoyed to spoil and please people and thankfully most of the time only the ones who deserved it (sometimes of course people tried to take advantage of it).

More into the submissive side to also accept to give away so much control if I would be permanent with someone has for me much to do as simply my life changed a lot since I am living in UK and unfortunately I can't say for the better. Due to different things I experienced and experience here I am plain run down and worn out from being 24/7 in charge and therefore if a guy wants to be in charge and all that stress it involves to manage my life, feel free to have it (if I would want to be with him in return *lol*).

From the sexual side I had sometimes thoughts why I like it considering what I went through. But I think the reason why I accept it with that past is in my case the fact I take it kind of as a child it wasn't my choice and I had no control over it until I got strong enough to cut off certain contacts I was involved with. Now...now it is my choice and therefore also gives me a certain level of power to be in that control to accept it if I would submit.

There might still be people out there who think that it is still related to it...well, it's not...not in my case. If I would have never left my country I am to 99.9% sure I would have never ever put up with that lifestyle as I was far too assertive in germany. As my current contact once said "UK has REALLY affected you and your views." Also it took me years to manage to get over situations and to get rid of my nightmares and if I wouldn't have managed that I would not feel comfortable in that lifestyle. The fact that I managed to leave what happened in the past and to move on with life gave me the strength to decide if I want this or not. So from my side a lot of it has more to do with my experiences over here, also once I was involved with a guy as a pro sub who pushed me into the bdsm line as it wasn't "on offer." But he did it with a great way and we went slowy step by step deeper into it and it was great for me to explore that with someone I could feel safe with. We haven't met since almost 3 years but since a few days we are back in touch again. He was a great teacher for me over here and not always easy...but nevertheless it felt great how he took care about not to push too hard too fast (even when my bum was bruised for 2 weeks after my first caning *sigh*). And therefore at home I wouldn't have met him and would unlikely ever put up with it, not to mention that at home I wouldn't have dared to be temporarily a pro sub to ensure to get money in fast to pay my bills. I think if a guy would have hit me once at home it would have been the last second he would have seen me...whereas in a special form of relationship it can be helpful and even a turn on now.

Despite the fact that the news like to report it that way...there are also plenty people out there who are not in this lifestyle and also got abused...they didn't mention them. I worked with quite a few of them in a psychiatric home a few years ago who have now problems with borderline syndrom, schizophrenia, etc....therefore I appreciate how I managed to get through my obstacles in life most of the time on my own, experienced the situation to give up in moments where it wasn't easy to accept to give up but always managed to get back onto my feet...not always alone but that's what friends are for and thankfully most of the time I had the right one on my side when neccessary.

_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

(in reply to feydeplume)

Post #: 54

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/27/2009 11:17:27 AM

Coldwarrior57

Posts: 297
Joined: 12/27/2008
Status: offline

Good question. I think it has to do with the movies, its a simple answer but people (SOME) beleive what they see on the TV as FACT. Some in society do not hold that women should be submissive. Personally I dont see anything wrong with it. YOu are what YOU ARE. Since we lived in caves women were submissive to the Dominant male , because he could provide for her and her off spring.

But in todays society some see that being a female submissive is NOT ok. its called social engineering. I think its CACA.
I do not have a degree ( but I did spend the night at a holiday in express last night) and I beleive that people would be happier if they accepted their rolls. Nothing wrong with being a sub or Dom.
as long as you accept it and act accordingly. that being said I have a personal issue with the Doms that beleive being a Dom gives then the right to be rude.
Perhaps its my age but I do not tolerate rudeness.

(in reply to feydeplume)

Post #: 55

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/27/2009 2:32:18 PM

GoddessTeaze

Posts: 1125
Joined: 10/14/2006
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: feydeplume

Thank you for your kind words GoddessTeaze, but sadly, your comment sort of prove the point i was making. Now, in your mind, we are "women who have overcome so much" and you are thinking about you and your sub. I fully understand that we are more than that to you, but for a moment, we weren't people, we were brave victims and statistics. THAT is the part that makes it hard for me to tell people sometimes.

Hello feydeplume,

you aren't a mindreader are you hon?

I don't think in that negative way about you

or anyone who suffered abuse.

They are people, and I don't think of them

as that person who is abused. I happen do love people, and I don't

love them any less.

I'm sorry for what happend to you,

and do hope nothing but the best for you.

Warm Greetingz

GoddezzT`

_____________________________

~* The only disability in life is a bad attitude. ~Scott Hamilton*~

~*Beauty is not in the face; beauty is a light in the heart. ~Kahlil Gibran*~

(in reply to feydeplume)

Post #: 56

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/27/2009 3:20:01 PM

thesugarplum

Posts: 49
Joined: 8/16/2006
Status: offline

As a victim of a lot of very terrible happenings in my youth, I can understand the medias correspondence to victims engaging in the scene. I feel that maybe, I would of remained vanilla if a series of events in my life wouldnt of happened, but, at the same time. I am happy this way.

(in reply to robertolapiedra)

Post #: 57

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/27/2009 3:21:12 PM

feydeplume

Posts: 935
Joined: 12/24/2008
Status: offline

Let me start by saying I am sorry. I didn't think you meant any ill will or patronization and it was wrong to use your kind words and comments to make a point.
Thank you, I really do appreciate it. And I do fully believe that YOU didn't think those thoughts and that there was no distancing in your words.

It is just a topic that is, at times, very emotionally charged for all involved. It causes distress and pain for the person hearing it and to protect themselves they tend to distance themselves, hide behind anger, or rapidly change the subject. The worst is when they, out of anger and the badness that happened, become antagonistic or mistrustful. All my friends and lovers know. Some know a lot of details, some don't and that has depended on their comfort level.

I really don't like upsetting people or causing mental/emotional pain so, even though i strongly believe that i should speak out, it kills me a little to see the pain and fear and anger in their faces. At the same time, I think we, men and women, should be able to talk about it the same way people talk about a car accident, having our house broken into, or getting beaten up in high school. I think we should be socially free to make bad jokes about it and have people laugh with us. I don't think we should feel like we have to hide it or only share with our closest friends. I am sort of borrowing from the gay rights movement with this idea and denying the validity of the "don't ask don't tell" idea.

But i really do not like the pain i see on their faces, the rage they feel at the criminals (yes child abuse is a crime), and the gulf that can open between me and the others that makes me feel like a zoo animal rather than a person.

On a sillier note.... i too have heard the 1 in 4 women statistic and can you (people that like d/s/bdsm/kink with women) imagine if it was true? It would mean that at least 25% of all women in the US are.... well I don't know since the stereotypes are so confusing and contradictory. *sigh*

Again, I am sorry that i came off so bitchy and was so completely inappropriate. And thank you for being a grown up about it and giving me a chance to apologize.

_____________________________

Wait! Are those my pants?
If it has testicle or tires, it's gonna give you the fidgets.
Pretend I said something witty and laugh.

(in reply to GoddessTeaze)

Post #: 58

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/27/2009 5:48:52 PM

servantheart

Posts: 960
Joined: 10/26/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

Haven't read through the responses on this thread, but my own opinion is that it's a stereotype perpetrated by those I refer to as rabid, intolerant, misandronistic "feminists" who can't accept that there really are women who prefer and choose to live under the authority of a Man. They hyperfocus on and use a serious issue, as well as the unfortunate real victims of spousal abuse, to further their agenda and give themselves credibility.

_____________________________

When you really trust someone, you have to be okay with not understanding some things.
~Real Live Preacher, Real Live Preacher weblog, 07-08-04; Anonymous author of RealLivePreacher.com

(in reply to feydeplume)

Post #: 59

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/28/2009 10:27:06 AM

GoddessTeaze

Posts: 1125
Joined: 10/14/2006
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thesugarplum

As a victim of a lot of very terrible happenings in my youth, I can understand the medias correspondence to victims engaging in the scene. I feel that maybe, I would of remained vanilla if a series of events in my life wouldnt of happened, but, at the same time. I am happy this way.

I'm sorry to hear that thesugarplum.

I know of people who want to relive through the pain of
the abuse, something which others would never do.
So many people, so many options in what to do or don't.

But generalising doesn't work, nor in this subject
since Wwe're all individuals.

I wish you enough hon.

GoddezzT`

_____________________________

~* The only disability in life is a bad attitude. ~Scott Hamilton*~

~*Beauty is not in the face; beauty is a light in the heart. ~Kahlil Gibran*~

(in reply to thesugarplum)

Post #: 60

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ?

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.109