RE: Gorean slave silks (Full Version)

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Leonidas -> RE: Gorean slave silks (8/12/2004 10:42:10 AM)

As a submissive man, it's probably not something that you'll want to pursue. Submissive men among lifestyle Goreans are rare. Unlike the broader D/s community, the Gorean way is a group dynamic, not an individual one. You would be treated as a slave by all the free men and women in the accepted group. As a kajirus (male slave) about the best that you could expect from Gorean free men would be regular humilliation, general distain, and, if you were an extremely good slave to your mistress, maybe, just maybe, grudging acknowledgement of your value. Needless to say, being in that position isn't something that appeals to most submissive men.



MistressDREAD -> RE: Gorean slave silks (8/12/2004 11:04:18 AM)

quote:

As a submissive man, it's probably not something that you'll want to pursue. Submissive men among lifestyle Goreans are rare.


knees
this is a misnormer
there are just as many male slaves
as female slaves however Males
that are Free of GOR do not wish
to accept this nor want to have
any thing to do with the Man
whom would in sum way defile Thier
opinion of what a Man should be.
This does not mean both online and
in real life that there are not many
male Gorean slaves. There is actually
only one female slave to Hundreds of
Free Woman too but I am sure Leon
probabaly does not have his GOR
proportioned to what the books say
towards this as well nor probably has
a Free Woman as a Mate alone with
His slave or slaves.
Free Male Goreans if They had Their way
would not have any male slaves about
as it is demeaning to most in sum kind
of personal way and takes away from
Thier Own manhoods Dominance sence
or in other words They feel it unnatural..
GOR is a Male Dominating Society and
the male slave goes against this mindset
however since The Writer of such put
them with in the books they do and have
a place as much of value as any Gorean
of GOR.
I find it funny that Leon would tempt to
sway you away from having a interest in
Gor much as He would tempt to sway
others from reading any thing He would
deem not right as well. JMO.I suppose
in the same sence this is why He tempts
to sway those from My Gor treaching as well
as I do tend to teach more male slaves in
Gor then female. HA! [ oh My a little light just
went off in My head ]



Sundew02 -> RE: Gorean slave silks (8/12/2004 11:18:22 AM)

Dread, You wasted a lot of space on this post with pasting a letter, that basically said. "I wrote a piece of FICTION". No where is he advocating his work of science fiction as a real time way of life. To equate ONE mans work of fiction to the "books of the bible" written by many at the time the events witnessed my many. The Bible is in the non-fiction part of the library.
Like I keep saying, typing more and pounding the podium more does not make it so. If this is your way of life go for it and enjoy. But to present it to the unsuspecting new members of the D/s world as on a level with the holy works from our history is not a responsible thing to do.
I have no issue with how others veiw their D/s life, I would never want to enter the world that you say you live in. Nor would I enter Leo's world. But I enjoy debate, that means the concise exchange of facts, it might be spiced with IMO, but it is provable facts that I base that opinion on. Sundew



Leonidas -> RE: Gorean slave silks (8/12/2004 11:19:28 AM)

Um... yeah knees2you. Listen to Dread. Come on in. You'll find a world full of free women and their male pets. Of course free women outnumber slave women among lifestyle Goreans, because that is the way it is in the fantasy novels. Geeze, what was I thinking?

On a more serious note, knees2you, I discourage everyone, male and female alike, from our ways, as I have already said on another thread. It's just plain harder, and unless it "speaks to you" in a way that you find awfully compelling, you are probably better served in the general D/s community. If you find a mistress that consideres herself Gorean (and she is... ahem.... somewhat sane) but has little or no interaction with a group, you are basically just signing on for a kind of absolute TPE with a little more ritual and protocol than would be typical.

Hope this helps.



Destinysskeins -> RE: Gorean slave silks (8/12/2004 11:23:53 AM)

Greetings A/all,

With all due respect directed at all P/persons involved in this thread...

As a person with a slight interest in Gor, may i please point out on of the aspects that have acted as a stumbling block to any further interest on my part. i dislike greatly the controversy surrounding this. i am very much a 'live and let live' sort of person and i find that encountering P/people with opinions so heated, so closely held and yes, at times so close minded proves to be a deterrent for further research.

I feel that it is my responsiblity as a person pursuing an alternative lifestyle which is viewed by so very many as aberrant to provide a welcoming shoulder and attitude to those whose views may also not match my own. Do i not wish that i might find such acceptance in my vanilla world? Shall i not accord those around me with the same basic respect that i wish to have bestowed upon myself?

Please take these final thoughts for the constructive and considerate ones that they are and not as any sort of dig upon Y/your persons....

When posting such messages please do remember that in many ways Y/you are representing the culture that Y/you have chosen to follow. Do W/we all not feel pride for O/our home and way of life? In my case, yes...and i wish for others to respect that regardless of whether they chose the same path or not.



GreyDragon1952 -> RE: Gorean slave silks (8/12/2004 11:41:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jillwfsub4blkdom

GreyDragon,
This might sound like a truly dumb question but why do You care about what people from Gor do online? Isn't it more important how they live their life in reality and not on a computer? As far as i am concerned, anyone can make up or act anyway they want on a computer. Is that reality or are they acting out some kind of fantasy?


Never think that a question asked is a dumb, a bad one or silly you just never know how many others are wondering the same thing and by asking you have done something they haven't you have over come your fears stepped forward and are now ready to accept the repercussions and rewards. You girl are braver than your sisters you bring Honor to your Master his House and Homestone

I enjoy online role play, online you can add those missing parts of Gor that are the fantasy the riding of Tarns, you have any idea what it cost to learn to hang glide or flying lessons, how much it cost to buy the weapons and practice with them daily You can create and adventure and much as you write a play for the stage, but in order for those watching they have to know something about the worlds back ground of what your portraying, You confuse them and you have lost your audience What Gor has done is lost most of its audience those few left are booing the performance. Why? Because it’s so poorly done. Like early westerns movies those watching knew little about what they were seeing and so didn’t see all the flaws in the performance, Now Gor is not the mystery it once was people can more easily pick out the flaws and then snicker at the actors making them, Much like firefighters watching a movie about firefighters or solder watching battle sets with tanks that were not in service in that war or battle, or in some cases watching American tanks used by Germans or Russians. For those not knowing it makes no difference, but for those that do, it’s a joke.

So that’s why its important to Me, when I make a joke I want it to be one we can all enjoy not a blooper reel of mistakes. That’s fun too but you didn’t watch the show to see the mistakes. Well most people don’t.

I hope this explains what drives me, and maybe those that seek to belittle my efforts it will understand I want a better understood Gor, not the Gor that’s so many see as unfunny, women bashing, egotistical, blood lusting, unreal, one sided, completely unfair. But who am I kidding its all those things and more and that why those that like it, love it. And those that don’t beat it up.
Not everyone wants to watch a play, for those I ask why watch him or her then become the critic. But then if we didn’t have critics there would be no fuss for others to wonder about and to go see for themselves what’s it’s all the fuss is about. And I have no one to watch the play.

Grey Dragon



Leonidas -> RE: Gorean slave silks (8/12/2004 11:45:07 AM)

IF you can be disuaded by a little vitriol hurled around on a message board, destiny, you probably should be. We are, by in large, not nice, genteel people from the burbs who just have a little kinky something going on the side. Lots more bikers than bankers. Lots more special forces and marines than accountants. Lots more construction workers than graphic designers. It's a rough crowd. If you would be horrified that a couple of men would get into a fist fight over a disagreement and then laugh about it later over a beer, all I can say is, run!



jillwfsub4blkdom -> RE: Gorean slave silks (8/12/2004 11:52:26 AM)

GreyDragon,
Thank You for both taking the time to reply and Your well thought out answer. It answers quite a few things for me.



jillwfsub4blkdom -> RE: Gorean slave silks (8/12/2004 11:58:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas
Lots more special forces and marines than accountants.


Looking down at my degree and stares horrified. Dang it says BS in accounting. Should i run too lol.



Sundew02 -> RE: Gorean slave silks (8/12/2004 12:08:23 PM)

destiny, Not being Gorean, I have viewed this as a learning experience. Reading the messages, shifting through the added color that makes the rose redder. You will learn more about this particular lifestyle from the discord than you ever would from the undisputed writings of one person. If it wasn't an important part of their lives, enough to draw a little heat. Who would want to join them? So I will agree here, if you want soft and gentle, then look to a sensual Dom/me. Definitely not a tradition Dom/me or Gor. The choice is of course yours. Stay safe and enjoy life only one ride per person. Sundew



Leonidas -> RE: Gorean slave silks (8/12/2004 12:16:39 PM)

I have owned accountants before. They can be damn handy to have around. Doing your taxes while bent over the desk with skirt thrown up over the back isn't a level of service that one can usually expect down at H&R Block. *wink*



MistressDREAD -> RE: Gorean slave silks (8/12/2004 12:31:29 PM)

Sundew02
I posted the letter for Thorns to have a start into research.



stormiKnightBEAR -> RE: Gorean slave silks (8/12/2004 12:33:00 PM)

Leon,

You're a 100% right.

stormi has much better things to do with her time.
It's just simply amazing that someone ..............
can think themself worthy of judging anyone.

Be Well,
stormi
property of Master Bear



GreyDragon1952 -> RE: Gorean slave silks (8/12/2004 1:16:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel

quote:

Its your Masters place to say how things work in His camp not his slave. don't even start that line, it won't fly. and if your Master can not be bothered to do it then its not that important to him hence you have nothing to say about it


Forgive me now, but Angel becomes confused? Is it not her Masters place to allow her (if He wishes) to express His Will? if a kettlegirl is a domestic slave within a camp, could stormi not be her Masters messenger, if He so chooses? Angel waits, eagarly for openess in response to her question.

quote:

Now you can say I'm full of shit because other people decided to do it differently. Fine keep it up. I will just keep teaching it my way and let the chips fall where they may.

this My opinon and I'm sticking to it.


Why be concerned about anothers opinion at all? You have Yours, and it is as valid as the view of the Master of stormi.

Everyone has a different outlook on the same book... judgements of others do not matter when one is happy within their own dynamic.





'Respect is not how ones dynamic works... but the way a person portrays themself with dignity and strength.'

I stuck my foot inthat one didn't I. Yes I said I was sticking to it, I didn't say it was writen in stone. Show me a better way and I will try it.
You didn't add this
quote:

For the bashing on the signature line of this girl's post, she feels it entitles her
to explain how it works in her Master's world.


That girl did not say it was with her Masters voice she was using , but that she said she felt
quote:

she feels it entitles her
entitles her? Did she not say she was a slave? Are slaves now entitled to rights? she entitled to her Master's care and nothing more, it is He that makes her world go round. The girl is entitled to be pleasing, not to take it on her self to put words into his mouth,. Its a good bet that He will not fault her for doing it. Because in this case she simply repeating what she has been told. But she didn’t say she had His blessings to speak her mind. She did say she felt it entitles her.

Ok this were we all (or at least I) become confused just what entitlments do slaves have. Where are the dividing lines of those entitlments online and off? There must be some. Can a slave have it both ways?

I like outspoken Free women, and even vocal slaves, but slaves know that they are under the watchful eyes of their Masters. What we don’t know is if he is watching at that moment and if he approves, or if learning of it will. Was he and does he?

Grey Dragon



Destinysskeins -> RE: Gorean slave silks (8/12/2004 1:40:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

IF you can be disuaded by a little vitriol hurled around on a message board, destiny, you probably should be. We are, by in large, not nice, genteel people from the burbs who just have a little kinky something going on the side. Lots more bikers than bankers. Lots more special forces and marines than accountants. Lots more construction workers than graphic designers. It's a rough crowd. If you would be horrified that a couple of men would get into a fist fight over a disagreement and then laugh about it later over a beer, all I can say is, run!


*sighs* i hadn't meant this as any sort of jab at You, the Lifestyle and/or daily mannerisms, routines, etc that You pursue. As i said, i am simply a 'live and let live person'. Does this mean that i'm afraid to get my hands dirty? (ask my horse whom i've cleaned up afterwards countless times :D). Does this mean that i am a cultured, pampered little princess who would be horrified that a couple of men would get into a fist fight over a disagreement and then laugh about it later over a beer, all I can say is, run! - hell no! Honestly, i'd be likely to pick the chair up and hand it to You to use. As for the biker, construction worker, etc comments - my brother is a construction worker who just got his first 'baby' aka Harley. The look of absolute pride on his face wearing his gear and sitting astride his baby was a thing of great joy for me.

The beauty of my world is that i can identify with the many conflicting aspects encountered therein. Just for me personally i prefer to take a laidback and non-confrontational approach to the whole damned revolving carousel ride we call home. Most likely because, my darker musings are simply not very bearable being jaded, nihilistic and overall downright depressing. (okay, so i'm not the best at gaining happy middle grounds!)

In short, once again i was not putting down Your ways at all. Instead, i was merely striving to help resolve conflict (sorry, it's just what i do!). But alas, to no avail because it is that conflict on which You thrive, and as per my motto - have at it! who am i to judge!? :D



GreyDragon1952 -> RE: Gorean slave silks (8/12/2004 1:42:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

IF you can be disuaded by a little vitriol hurled around on a message board, destiny, you probably should be. We are, by in large, not nice, genteel people from the burbs who just have a little kinky something going on the side. Lots more bikers than bankers. Lots more special forces and marines than accountants. Lots more construction workers than graphic designers. It's a rough crowd. If you would be horrified that a couple of men would get into a fist fight over a disagreement and then laugh about it later over a beer, all I can say is, run!
Tossing Leonidas a ice cold beer (one of the nice things about real life is you can have cold beer) while nursing a black eye, I say well said.

Yes we want passion in our lives and we want those that have feelings to stand up and embrace them and tell us to go to hell if they don't agree, but in doing so we don't meekly back down and not demand they prove themselves and their arguments. As we can't really knock each other down and spill a little real blood here on the boards we can demand that they at lest back up their points with a solid argument, not some catchy slogan they picked up some where. We see that too much in politics, show me a brawl on the house floor and I will know that man is honest about his position and not getting paid to say it.

Grey Dragon



LadyBeckett -> RE: Gorean slave silks (8/12/2004 1:52:01 PM)

I am in agreement with Sundew for the most part, but I have a question. It is my understanding, from what I am reading here, and on other threads, that Leo lives this in real life. However, I'm a little bit confused with others, as to whether they are actually living the Gorean lifestyle in real life, or playing an online game, and applying some of the "game" to lifestyle "play".



GreyDragon1952 -> RE: Gorean slave silks (8/12/2004 2:03:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

I have owned accountants before. They can be damn handy to have around. Doing your taxes while bent over the desk with skirt thrown up over the back isn't a level of service that one can usually expect down at H&R Block. *wink*
Can I use your accountant to do my taxes this year?[:D] I been looking for just that type of service(by the way I think your onto something there, you could form a whole new Tax service and compete with H&R Block[;)]), I can only add I wish it was the Tax collator I could bend over the table that way or the ones passing the laws that force us to. Was not one of the founding issues about the USA one about Taxation without representation? I sure didn’t ask to be taxed as much as I am, and I’m sure those that pay even more like it less. But then I regress [sm=rolleyes.gif]

Grey Dragon



GreyDragon1952 -> RE: Gorean slave silks (8/12/2004 2:11:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jillwfsub4blkdom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas
Lots more special forces and marines than accountants.


Looking down at my degree and stares horrified. Dang it says BS in accounting. Should i run too lol.
I much rather have a smart accountant than say my brother-in-law doing my Taxes and if she just happens to be good looking so much the better, and if she also a slave, and the Master is some what reasonable well I have died and gone to heaven.
Grey Dragon



Leonidas -> RE: Gorean slave silks (8/12/2004 2:16:25 PM)

Aw, now see, that was about as good natured as I get, and I still hurt your feelings. I didn't take what you said as a jab in the least. Not at all, and I don't want you to get the wrong impression. The Goreans that I have known laugh a lot more than they fight, and can be damn fun to be around. Being a Buddhist, I'd probably have to try to coax you out of that nihilism, but that's a whole other topic.



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