Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

shock collar: electric current ?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Health and Safety >> shock collar: electric current ? Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
shock collar: electric current ? - 1/17/2006 3:17:31 PM   
dorechan


Posts: 37
Joined: 1/17/2006
Status: offline 		I know it's rude to post several times the same thing, but I just realized that this question should be here rather than in the ask a mistress section, so sorry about asking again.

2 weeks from now, when my Princess returns I am going to wear a Petsafe shock collar for big dogs (over 25 pounds, I'm 5 times that big so I really didn't think there could be a problem). It uses two 3 Volt batteries, but I have no idea of the current. It has 8 levels of correction. I just saw (searching "electric" on the forum) that some people use "TENS" units : whatever these devices exactly are, what is the current used by these devices ? How much would be a safe current ? (I have something to measure the current, in case the user manual doesn't specify). I read somewhere on the internet that 5 mAmps is a reasonable limit (10 mAmps being really strong). Is the intensity of the shock measured by the Amps alone, or should I multiply Amps * Volts ? The later seems more logical to me, but I didn't find anything about the voltage...

Is it true that the collar should rather be worn around the thigh instead of around the neck, for safety reasons ? I thought about wearing it around the thigh, but only to be able to wear it any time.

I do want to improve my obedience, but I don't want to damage my health in the process (and my Princess doesn't want that either).

Thank you very much for the answers.

edited to correct : there are 2 batteries in the collar, not one.

< Message edited by dorechan -- 1/17/2006 3:25:05 PM >
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: shock collar: electric current ? - 1/17/2006 4:38:05 PM   
Hallittlelolita


Posts: 253
Joined: 8/11/2005
Status: offline 		Sorry this post kept making me think of the Bud Light commercial about the guy who put the shock collar on his friend so he couldnt get His Bud light sorry i just had to share that

Sincerely Master Hal's lil cumslut slavegirl andie

(in reply to dorechan)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: shock collar: electric current ? - 1/17/2006 4:55:27 PM   
sweetpettjenny


Posts: 674
Joined: 11/7/2004
Status: offline 		ive always wondered myself about shock collars..i admire puppy play ..but i think they are really not safe for the vocal chords....not sure though.
quote:

ORIGINAL: dorechan

I know it's rude to post several times the same thing, but I just realized that this question should be here rather than in the ask a mistress section, so sorry about asking again.

2 weeks from now, when my Princess returns I am going to wear a Petsafe shock collar for big dogs (over 25 pounds, I'm 5 times that big so I really didn't think there could be a problem). It uses two 3 Volt batteries, but I have no idea of the current. It has 8 levels of correction. I just saw (searching "electric" on the forum) that some people use "TENS" units : whatever these devices exactly are, what is the current used by these devices ? How much would be a safe current ? (I have something to measure the current, in case the user manual doesn't specify). I read somewhere on the internet that 5 mAmps is a reasonable limit (10 mAmps being really strong). Is the intensity of the shock measured by the Amps alone, or should I multiply Amps * Volts ? The later seems more logical to me, but I didn't find anything about the voltage...

Is it true that the collar should rather be worn around the thigh instead of around the neck, for safety reasons ? I thought about wearing it around the thigh, but only to be able to wear it any time.

I do want to improve my obedience, but I don't want to damage my health in the process (and my Princess doesn't want that either).

Thank you very much for the answers.

edited to correct : there are 2 batteries in the collar, not one.


(in reply to dorechan)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: shock collar: electric current ? - 1/17/2006 6:21:03 PM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline 		I'm to paranoid to have shock collars on a neck. Jugular arteries, the muscles around the spine and wind pipe, and it's close to the brain. I would rather not risk the chance on my beloved pet.

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

(in reply to dorechan)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: shock collar: electric current ? - 1/17/2006 8:23:02 PM   
TheMasterBear


Posts: 13
Joined: 10/3/2005
Status: offline 		I don’t know if I like the idea of a shock collar around my slaves throat either. Being an electrician by trade, ive been “bitten” many times myself. (227 volts gives you a nasty little headache after) But did you know it only takes 10mAmps to cause death? It all depends on the path the electricity takes, if those 10mAmps go across your heart, it can cause arrhythmia and if not corrected death. So that being said, while I enjoy the thought of remote pain stimulation, you may want to meter the output of the collar at different levels and wear it around your waist or thigh. Also, just in an interest of safety, you may want to find out how much a tazer puts out

(in reply to FangsNfeet)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: shock collar: electric current ? - 1/17/2006 9:00:58 PM   
Misstoyou


Posts: 1149
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline 		Wouldn't do it to my dog; not going to do it to my person.

_____________________________

~ Miss Marie

a.k.a. "mean Lady"


(in reply to dorechan)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: shock collar: electric current ? - 1/17/2006 11:22:38 PM   
dorechan


Posts: 37
Joined: 1/17/2006
Status: offline 		I did search, and from what I read the minimum that ever caused death was 13mAmps (and I think that it was in special conditions), which is why I mentionned 10 mAmps as a hard limit and 5 as a more reasonnable limit. What about the TENS units that some people mentionned on this forum ? How much do they deliver ?

< Message edited by dorechan -- 1/17/2006 11:24:34 PM >

(in reply to TheMasterBear)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: shock collar: electric current ? - 1/17/2006 11:36:38 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

2 weeks from now, when my Princess returns I am going to wear a Petsafe shock collar for big dogs (over 25 pounds, I'm 5 times that big so I really didn't think there could be a problem).


I currently have a 125 lb chocolate labrador who is a rescue. He is brain damaged from his former owner's use of a shock collar. So yes....it could be a problem.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to dorechan)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: shock collar: electric current ? - 1/18/2006 12:09:01 AM   
Craftsman


Posts: 885
Joined: 6/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dorechan

I know it's rude to post several times the same thing, but I just realized that this question should be here rather than in the ask a mistress section, so sorry about asking again.

2 weeks from now, when my Princess returns I am going to wear a Petsafe shock collar for big dogs (over 25 pounds, I'm 5 times that big so I really didn't think there could be a problem).


Do you have several times as much hair or fur to act as insulation too?
quote:


It uses two 3 Volt batteries, but I have no idea of the current. It has 8 levels of correction. I just saw (searching "electric" on the forum) that some people use "TENS" units : whatever these devices exactly are, what is the current used by these devices ? How much would be a safe current ? (I have something to measure the current, in case the user manual doesn't specify). I read somewhere on the internet that 5 mAmps is a reasonable limit (10 mAmps being really strong). Is the intensity of the shock measured by the Amps alone, or should I multiply Amps * Volts ? The later seems more logical to me, but I didn't find anything about the voltage...

Electrical shock is a complex subject. Much depends on frequency; the higher the frequency of the shock, the more the current travels on the surface. DC will cause a deep single spasm, and usually knocks the victim free of the contact. The most dangerous frequencies seem to be in the 50 to 60 cycle range. People have used military surplus field phone hand cranked generators to good effect reportedly in the Gulag, Siberia, and Iraqui prisons before 'we' went in. In that frequency range, the current will often travel very deeply in the interior of the body.

Multiplying Amps by Volts gives you Watts. The damage to the tissues is mostly the result of current passing through, and that will vary by tissue. Current is amps, and is a measure of how many electrons are being pushed through a conductor per unit of time. It is the electrons passing through and messing up the electrolytes in the cells that causes many of the problems.

Some of the injuries I found listed on resulting sites when I used "Electrical shock effects" as a search string included edema, tissue damage, bone fractures, muscle and tendon tearing, coma, and death.

As for the fact that you "have something to measure amps" --- how would you measure this amperage? Do you know enough about electricity and electrical circuits to know how to measure the current reliably, as applied to your thigh or wherever it is placed? If not, you might run some major risks. Biomedical electronics is a complex subject, and not one I would explore on my own body.
quote:


Is it true that the collar should rather be worn around the thigh instead of around the neck, for safety reasons ? I thought about wearing it around the thigh, but only to be able to wear it any time.

Yes, it is probably not as dangerous to break your leg as it is to break your neck, but remember, in EMT school one learns that a femur fracture is considered life threatening as well.
quote:


I do want to improve my obedience, but I don't want to damage my health in the process (and my Princess doesn't want that either).

Good thought!! Staying healthy is a good thing.

Personally, I wouln't use anything designed for use on another species, especially not something that works on the principles of tasers and cattle prods. TENS (Transcutaneous Electrical Nerve Stimulation/stimulator) units work on similar principles, but are designed to penetrate and stimulate within a tightly controlled range. You won't find that in a dog collar, I'm afraid.

Do some careful research before embarking on this venture. Err on the side of caution. My advice: Don't play with this stuff. It's not worth the risks, from my viewpoint.



_____________________________

You do not have to be perfect to be perfect.

(in reply to dorechan)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: shock collar: electric current ? - 1/18/2006 1:17:30 AM   
dorechan


Posts: 37
Joined: 1/17/2006
Status: offline 		The collar uses batteries, so it's DC. I dunno what I was thinking about when mentionning the watts (high school and university are far). So the shocks are DC. I was wondering, what about all those electric fences that are around the fields of horses ? How much do they deliver ? There are many of them where I live, and I got caught quite a few times when I was a child, it's quite unpleasant, but far from life threatening (even for a child weighting about 25 kg). Could be a good comparison (there is no "tightly controlled range") ?

Anyway... we'll discuss it, and probably put the collar around my thigh (it's more discreet anyway. Also, as the user manual (available online) states, she will start on the lowest level. If it's that dangerous she won't need to raise the level.
We'll see, and she'll decide anyway. Thanks for the advice all.


Edited to add : to those who wonder how on get such an idea, it was on extremerestraints.com

< Message edited by dorechan -- 1/18/2006 1:39:29 AM >

(in reply to Craftsman)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: shock collar: electric current ? - 1/18/2006 8:58:03 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		Here's a thought. You mentioned the use of a tens unit. It uses 9volt batteries. (Most do) they're not cheap either. So see if you know someone with one. Use it for awhile. It sends enough current to the body to help relieve pain. That's what I used after my back sugery to get out of bed with. I had to get it on, and lay there about 5-10 mins for the effects hit right to allow me to move not totally pain free, but enough to move.

A Tens unit has different settings on it. You can experiment with it on the settings. Just remember, keep it off the chest area and temples. Oh and one other thing, if 1 lead disconnects.... it sends a higher voltage letting you know. (Grinz)

I've got a tens unit that Master and I are going to start experimenting with ourselves as we search for more info on it ourselves. Luckily having used it for other purposes thus far, I'm use to it. Make sure you research this as well like you are doing the collar.

(in reply to dorechan)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: shock collar: electric current ? - 1/18/2006 9:52:08 AM   
ArtfulTrainer


Posts: 24
Joined: 12/9/2005
Status: offline 		I think that because of all the important structures (carotid aretery, jugular vein, spinal cord, trachea, esophagus) in the neck I would avoid that area.
I would try a small collar around the ankle or wrist instead. Much safer and probably just as effective.
or how about rigging a remote control to a TENS unit and placing it on or near the genitals
--let's send that one to Mythbusters. :-)
-A.T.

(in reply to dorechan)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: shock collar: electric current ? - 1/18/2006 11:04:22 AM   
MasterDesire


Posts: 45
Joined: 1/20/2005
Status: offline 		The normal shock collar operates like an electric fence charger. It is the joules not the voltage or amperage. Yes any amount of electric current traveling thru a body is dangerous. The most important thing and paramount is NOT TO ALLOW TO TRAVEL THUR THE HEART AREA. as in a defibrillator. A normal 9-volt battery touched to the clit or the inner lips or even the tongue will give a very enlightening shock. but the distance from terminal to terminal is small. You see clips on nipple sand then on the clit attached to a device and that may be dangerous. As the current flows near the heart. Now if you want to get creative find a old crank phone generator like you had seen used in the wars as field phones. YES it bites. I have found the battery to be very very effective but more so on MOIST skin

(in reply to ArtfulTrainer)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: shock collar: electric current ? - 1/18/2006 12:02:07 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Maybe she'd consider this version which has a vibration mode:

http://www.gundogsupply.com/dtsysgoodst21.html

Sometimes when we go out, especially on formal occasions, I have beth wear a remote vibrating pantie. What fun it would be to have something like this which has a one mile range instead of a 20 foot limit.

(in reply to dorechan)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: shock collar: electric current ? - 1/18/2006 1:29:15 PM   
azsub1


Posts: 16
Joined: 3/23/2005
Status: offline 		secures around /above the testes

http://photos.imageevent.com/thx11382000/vbvb//Picture-1098.jpg

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: shock collar: electric current ? - 1/18/2006 1:46:10 PM   
dorechan


Posts: 37
Joined: 1/17/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: azsub1

secures around /above the testes

http://photos.imageevent.com/thx11382000/vbvb//Picture-1098.jpg

No thanks ! That's a part of me she really doesn't want to damage !!!

(in reply to azsub1)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: shock collar: electric current ? - 1/18/2006 5:38:33 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		Wow, i find all this amazing. Great idea! Any chance you'll keep me updated one what you find out?

(in reply to dorechan)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: shock collar: electric current ? - 1/19/2006 12:54:01 AM   
azsub1


Posts: 16
Joined: 3/23/2005
Status: offline 		At a setting of 1 it's like a pin prick, 2 stings 3 hurts and 5 just about buckles the knees. I haven't tested 6-8 and only did a single shock on 5. If you hold the button down it gives a shock every 2 seconds or so.
Most sinister i think is the warning button. It gives off a tone before it shocks, so you know it's coming. but there is also a button so that only the tone happens, trouble is you can't tell the difference.
One thing i would warn about would be using this on someone who is bound tightly. I could see pulled/torn muscles and such.
Although it is quite intense of a sensation, the pain fades immediatley. kind of like ibeing snapped with a white hot rubberband that doesn't cause any burns or leave any marks.

< Message edited by azsub1 -- 1/19/2006 12:55:02 AM >

(in reply to RiotGirl)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: shock collar: electric current ? - 1/19/2006 2:09:42 AM   
dorechan


Posts: 37
Joined: 1/17/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: azsub1

At a setting of 1 it's like a pin prick, 2 stings 3 hurts and 5 just about buckles the knees. I haven't tested 6-8 and only did a single shock on 5.

Thanks. I suppose you are using a model designed for small dogs, not for big dogs (do you know the make ? model ?) ?... I really should have searched one. I guess if I put it around my thigh any shock on 1 will hurt a lot... then she shouldn't have to try setting 2, because I don't really like pain. And soon the tone should be enough. We'll see.
No problem Riotgirl, I'll add something to this thread in a few weeks.
(I just had my 6th night without emission now, yay !).
And btw, I saw in the user's manual that the shock lasts for 1 msec, so the energy released is very low compared to anything that could cause bones to break (there is a comparison chart). I'll still put it somewhere around the leg though.

(in reply to azsub1)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: shock collar: electric current ? - 1/19/2006 12:45:11 PM   
Craftsman


Posts: 885
Joined: 6/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dorechan

The collar uses batteries, so it's DC.

Stun guns and tasers use batteries, and they deliver 10.000 volts or more. If it were just DC volts to be applied, a simple switch and a pair of wires on a battery would work, thus eliminating the expense of the energising circuits. A simple model remote control could to the jub if one wanted to go wireless. Doesn't work that way though.

As for the shock being DC, that is true. It is pulsed DC. It is square wave pulsed DC, at a frequency of about 2 cycles per second. DC at that frequency is not dangerous. Rise and fall time of the voltage, however, is. A square wave, which is produced mechanically by a switch and electronically by a vibrator or gating system, is the sum of all the odd harmonics of the frequency. Those harmonic frequencies are what can cause things like cell damage, electrocoagulation of blood, and muscle spasm or tetany, which can lead to temporary or permanent damage. With a button pushed, and without a constant application of these pulsed DC spikes, there is a much lower risk of complications, but they are not completely eliminated. It does not mean you will die if this collar is used. It just means you have to proceed with caution and care.
quote:


I dunno what I was thinking about when mentionning the watts (high school and university are far). So the shocks are DC. I was wondering, what about all those electric fences that are around the fields of horses ? How much do they deliver ? There are many of them where I live, and I got caught quite a few times when I was a child, it's quite unpleasant, but far from life threatening (even for a child weighting about 25 kg). Could be a good comparison (there is no "tightly controlled range") ?

It was not all that off the mark. The electrical/electronic terms are all inter-related at some level. Watts are a part of the considerations, just not the primary focus there-of.
To answer the electric fence question, look at this document:

http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-countryside/vertebrates/reports/Electric-fencing-manual.pdf
It will probably tell you more about electric fences than you ever wanted to know. It did me, at least. It will also tell you about the range control standards for the fences as related to species to be controlled, along with some other interesting considerations.
quote:


Anyway... we'll discuss it, and probably put the collar around my thigh (it's more discreet anyway. Also, as the user manual (available online) states, she will start on the lowest level. If it's that dangerous she won't need to raise the level.
We'll see, and she'll decide anyway. Thanks for the advice all.


Edited to add : to those who wonder how on get such an idea, it was on extremerestraints.com

A very interesting site. Thank you for bringing it to my attention!! <wide evil grin>

_____________________________

You do not have to be perfect to be perfect.

(in reply to dorechan)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Health and Safety >> shock collar: electric current ? Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094