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RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/8/2009 10:42:39 AM

PeonForHer

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I bet your cheeks are reddening. And your face, too.

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RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/8/2009 10:44:17 AM

Lockit

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LOL... no... but I think I have butter in my hair...

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RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/8/2009 10:55:14 AM

ShaktiSama

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
I've never been disobeyed in public. In front of kinky folks or otherwise. However, I do know it would piss Me off, which is one automatic reason that there would be a discussion prior to any action. I wouldn't want to be punishing in anger in the first place.

That's my exact problem with this scenario. I have difficulty imagining it. I've never faced it. Also, in 21 years I have never raised my hand to any submissive in anger, and I am not about to start any time soon.

On the other hand, I also don't ask my submissives to submit to crazy unprotected gang-bang sex with strangers. Seems like that would be a great way to give my slave a fatal or incurable venereal disease, quite frankly, and even if I did not have love for him, I can't see how infecting my property with incurable diseases is in my best interest.

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RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/8/2009 1:29:53 PM

YoursMistress

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In cooking, as in life, everything is better with butter.

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RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/8/2009 4:45:42 PM

thetammyjo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

Okay....because Lockit so kindly asked me not to tweek her butt....

How should a FemDom react when a "slave" she owns says "no" to something they've already agreed to? what if this refusal was in front of Her friends? does it matter if those friends are vanilla or other FemDoms? To quote myself..."I mean there's an expectation if someone calls themselves a 'slave', right?"

MsK's boi

yeah, like others I have to say this is difficult for me to answer because I've never been in this situation.

Either my slave and I are communicating well enough that I wouldn't ask him to do something he's say "no" to or he would be mortified at the thought of publicly disobeying -- it reflects not just on me but on him as well, you know.

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RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/8/2009 5:49:36 PM

LovingMistress45

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

Okay....because Lockit so kindly asked me not to tweek her butt....

How should a FemDom react when a "slave" she owns says "no" to something they've already agreed to? what if this refusal was in front of Her friends? does it matter if those friends are vanilla or other FemDoms?

She should react in a manner that maintains her dignity and demonstrates her ability to control both her emotions and reactions. It should not matter whether the friends were vanilla or in the lifestyle her ability to maintain self control even in a highly stressful situation is part of what defines her as Dominant. Because I call myself a Dominant, Mistress, or whatever title I like does not make me worthy of respect or submission, how I carry myself, how handle less than favorable situations and how I respond to my sub/slave is what makes me worthy of those.

To quote myself..."I mean there's an expectation if someone calls themselves a 'slave', right?" Yes, it does and I think it way over used. But that is another discussion.

If my submissive (or slave) said "no" to me my first reaction would be to find out what was wrong. Anyone I have been with has always wanted to please me, so I would assume there was something seriously wrong and I would also be concerned with how "I" had missed the non-verbal signals that something was not as it should have been.

As to what exactly I would do - it would depend on what I found out when I processed this with my sub/slave. However, my pride would never be more important than the physical/emotional/psychological safety of my sub/slave. In public at that moment my reaction would either be to have him/her go to his/her room, stand in a corner or possibly kneel at my feet depending on the situation.

Punishment if it was warranted would be in private and not in anger.

MsK's boi

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RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/8/2009 5:56:46 PM

LadyPact

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
I've never been disobeyed in public. In front of kinky folks or otherwise. However, I do know it would piss Me off, which is one automatic reason that there would be a discussion prior to any action. I wouldn't want to be punishing in anger in the first place.

That's my exact problem with this scenario. I have difficulty imagining it. I've never faced it. Also, in 21 years I have never raised my hand to any submissive in anger, and I am not about to start any time soon.

On the other hand, I also don't ask my submissives to submit to crazy unprotected gang-bang sex with strangers. Seems like that would be a great way to give my slave a fatal or incurable venereal disease, quite frankly, and even if I did not have love for him, I can't see how infecting my property with incurable diseases is in my best interest.

I think part of the problem that so many of us are having in answering this question, is that we can't help but to forget the original that inspired it. Many of us are relating one to the other. The problem is that it dances on the extreme, and it makes it too hard for us to identify.

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RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/9/2009 1:55:15 AM

DarkSteven

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I consider it to be topping from the bottom if a sub changes limits. If he/she wants to discuss them, okay, but I consider limits to be the Dominant's property.

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RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/9/2009 3:58:28 AM

FullfigRIMAAM1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen
How should a FemDom react when a "slave" she owns says "no" to something they've already agreed to? what if this refusal was in front of Her friends? does it matter if those friends are vanilla or other FemDoms? To quote myself..."I mean there's an expectation if someone calls themselves a 'slave', right?"
MsK's boi

If a "slave" of mine, promised something in private, but renegged in public, I would be mortified first, than I'd check my ego, and pull him aside for a serious conversation to check if something is physically wrong, or emotionally making him lose his mind...

The easy answer, and I'd like to say it's what I'd always do, is release him than and there. I have no problem with setting, and sticking with, boundaries and behavior expectations... But, having been in love, and having met more than one or two men who were ambivalent about their desires/acceptability of their feelings, I have exercised patience and understanding (which isn't like me, lol) when it seems the problem is "freaking out at the real prospect of" whatever I'm asking him to do. M

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RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/9/2009 12:56:21 PM

MistressSassy66

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

"Milady...in the kitchen, he told me that he had had unprotected sex multiple times in the past year. So many partners, and unprotected...I just could not do as you asked and I did not want to embarrass him or his Lady in front of the group. I am sorry..."

"I thought I could do it, but when it actually came time, I just knew that if I did as you asked, I was going to throw up. I was so nervous and scared...As it was, it was all I could do to keep from throwing up right there on the spot. I am sorry...."

The other thread was about sucking cock and this was just two of the multiple reasons I could see for someone backing out of a previously made agreement.

I think most people - submissive or slave - are sincere in their desire to serve and obey. But sometimes, information, either internal or external come to light that change things. Now, I would hope that a request might be made to speak in private to your Mistress to clarify that information and get either reprieve or further instructions.

But it's not as if we were talking about refusing to serve tea and cookies...

I would expect the slave to ask permission to speak then explain why they
dont want to follow through.Any other behavior its hard to say how I would react.
It would depend on the people there.

I can understand a slave backing out of this situation of sucking cock.I have had submissives back out a couple times,they thought they could but they just cant do it,I wont force them.I can actually understand the fantasy of doing something and the act of doing it are TWO different things.

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RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/9/2009 1:15:19 PM

PeonForHer

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The way I understand it, the D and the s negotiate things between them at the outset of the relationship and this is rather like a constitution being drawn up. Yet, as we all know, a constitution can't be expected to provide crystal-clear rules for all situations in the future. There are too many unknowns involved - which is why there's a legal profession. I assume that a wise dominant, and a wise sub, will know what goes against the 'spirit of the constitution' most of the time. As Otters pointed out, being told to serve refreshments is one thing; being told to service a number of others in sexual ways is something else again.

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RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/9/2009 2:31:20 PM

LadyPact

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Quit it, Peon. You're blowing My good mental visuals. (Oh man. Didn't mean for that to be a bad pun, but there it is.)

One thing that's been bouncing around in My head (other than that) is that the activity that spurred the content of this thread, is just plain not possible without including one additional human being. I'm not talking an audience like the other thread suggested, but you do have to have one additional participant. No matter how much you play with props, encourage, reassure, build on the humiliation factor for those who like that, or any other methods that you employ, the real moment of truth comes down to when another is present.

My boys have never disappointed Me, but it is only responsible to discuss the feelings the boys might have when the actual moment of truth arrives. It really could happen that the inner turmoil was too great, or perhaps one of Otter's possibilities or other external factors could come to light that made the task not possible.

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RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/9/2009 2:53:51 PM

PeonForHer

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LP, I think that, at bottom, this is a hideously difficult thing and most particularly in the context of female dominants and male submissives. I'm frequently astonished by what some male subs will do for their female dominants without turning a hair - but I'm just as frequently amazed at what they'll feel to be "self-evidently" beyond the pale. I never get tired of what female dominants - who are now good friends, - have told me about their experiences with their subs. So often I've thought "Jeez, he could do that without it bothering him?" but equally often I've thought "Why on earth did he have a problem with that one? It's nothing!"

Yet, I think you're right. Involving third parties is nearly always going to be "take it carefully" territory.

And, btw, given the right noises of appreciation from the right female(s) at the right time, I'd probably be able to wipe the smile off my face and give the job due seriousness and dedication.

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RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/9/2009 3:27:35 PM

LadyPact

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You make excellent points, Peon, on multiple counts.

On the 'he could do that, but couldn't bring himself to do this easy thing, well, you have to look at it that everyone is different. Every one has different hard limits. That goes for both sides of the kneel. Not every one tends to go with the theory that a slave is still entitled to hard limits, so that's another discussion right there.

People form their hard limits by all kinds of factors. Some of them are from their opinions molded by society. Others reflect certain traumas. Still others are things that a person might think is too much for them, for whatever reason. A good example of this was clip's hard limit about needles. It wasn't about the pain for him. Being a nurse, he had too much in his head about the dangers. It took eighteen months for him to get past that limit. (Now, he actually likes needle play.) In contrast, I've told him on several occasions that I am completely satisfied with his limits about any type of whip with a cracker. (The sound reminds him too much of bullets from active combat.)

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RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/9/2009 3:48:38 PM

Sylverdawn

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I think there is an expectation that a slave will comply ... I mean the "community" definition of slave is someone who willingly surrenders personal freedoms to the authority of another..However, if you are a SLAVE owner there is an expectation that you will not willingly put said slave into situations that are dangerous to their longterm emotional, physical or financial well being... you get to be the responsible one.. So there should be a mechanism in place in which said slave can express their trepidations with any said situation and the knowledge that the owner will do all that is possible to ensure the above stipulations... SD.

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RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/30/2009 8:58:46 AM

slave689

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I am an extreme male slave!! I think the mistress has done absolutely right by crushing him hard..He deserves that brutal punishment..I wished that slave would have been me!!

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RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/30/2009 10:49:02 AM

chamberqueen

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I would take a look at the track record of the slave. Were they normally disobedient or was this something brand new? If it was the first time, or something very rare, I would excuse the two of us and ask what was going on. They may have picked up on some danger signal that I had missed. If it was a case of mild discomfort I would still expect the act to be carried out or would publicly announce that punishment would be given later.

Yes, there definitely is an expectation of a slave that they will obey - especially if the act was not given as a hard limit. As a rule "no" is not expected from a slave unless there is a very good reason. That reason should be listened to and then decided upon - not in a kneejerk response but with wisdom and insight.

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