"Slave" disobedience?

Join Our Community

Collarchat.com

Home Login Search

"Slave" disobedience?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Mistress >> "Slave" disobedience?

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

"Slave" disobedience? - 3/7/2009 8:42:57 AM

Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline

Okay....because Lockit so kindly asked me not to tweek her butt....

How should a FemDom react when a "slave" she owns says "no" to something they've already agreed to? what if this refusal was in front of Her friends? does it matter if those friends are vanilla or other FemDoms? To quote myself..."I mean there's an expectation if someone calls themselves a 'slave', right?"

MsK's boi

< Message edited by BoiJen -- 3/7/2009 8:43:17 AM >

_____________________________

Clips of MsKitty doin' stuff to me. Support the fan club, buy a clip today.

RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/7/2009 9:09:46 AM

Posts: 276
Joined: 10/7/2007
Status: offline

Whew! I shudder to think of that happening to me and in front of someone. It's hard for me to answer this because it never happened and I can't see my slave ever doing that. If it did happen I imagine I would see the white lightening strike, literally, which is my cue, that I'm beyond being pissed off!

I do know that I would react differently in front of my vanilla friends, but he would know that the matter would be dealt with as soon as we were home. If possible, get him one on one. Depending on where we were, I'd make him as miserable as possible without anyone else knowing what my signals and cues meant, if after talking to him, there was no valid reason for the refusal.

If I was with Domme friends, it would be dealt with on the spot. he disrespected me in front of others and he can expect to be punished in front of others. Because of my natural response and reactions to some things, I'd ask if there was a reason not to do what was asked and that it'd better be a damn good one.

But then again... since I trust my slave to the utmost, I'd trust there was a good reason for the refusal.

I know this sounded like rambling but I wrote this the way the thoughts feel. lol

And yes... there is a clear an exception of compliance with my slave vs. my submissive but that would open up another discussion entirely.

Ms. Faye

_____________________________

You can put away your masquerade
You won't ever have to be afraid of Me
Open up your eyes and see what is in store
I must the One that you are searching for.

(in reply to BoiJen)

RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/7/2009 9:37:27 AM

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

LOL BoiJen.... thank you for not tweeking my ass! lol

I overdid last night so I am working with a foggy brain here and am kind of caught in the situation that was given in the other thread too... so brain function is limited here!

One thing keeps standing out in my mind. The ego of the dominant if a slave doesn't do what they agreed to in front of other's. While there may be a time to correct someone publically, I tend not to. In the situation that was presented in the other thread... I would not include my friends or people who were there and expect them to be a part of the mix up, disobedience or correction of it all. Even if I were embarassed in some sense, I could not disreguard all who were there and what actually might be best.

First of all, I assume I would love my slave and his best interest would be at my core and although I might feel that some correction might be needed, I would have to isolate us to find out why he didn't do as I ordered, whether he agreed to it or not. I would think that there was a reason for it and correction before knowing the reason might be out of order. In a situation like this, he could have thought he was able to do something and then when that something presented itself, found that he couldn't actually do it and I would have to look at that differently than simple disobedience. It was a new situation and one where there should be some care used. I would see it as a safe word until I knew more.

I would most likely remove him from the activities by sitting in a corner and not taking part and would deal with it later after we talked. He might be punished and then he might not depending on what the situation was. But... my ego would not be a part of the situation. I don't need to show other's how wonderful my submissive is and use him to show off. If he were mine, he would know just how displeased I was, but also would know that I would give him my attention in deciding what actually happened and what needed to happen because of whatever was going on and what he had done.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to BoiJen)

RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/7/2009 9:44:01 AM

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

To quote myself..."I mean there's an expectation if someone calls themselves a 'slave', right?"

I'd guess that there's also an expectation if someone calls herself a Mistress.

I'm assuming that having a certain minimal level of skill and sophistication is part of the role. To be worthy of the title, she'd have to have some sense of responsibility and care for her sub. For instance, as MistressFaye says, "since I trust my slave to the utmost, I'd trust there was a good reason for the refusal".

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to BoiJen)

RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/7/2009 9:44:54 AM

Posts: 276
Joined: 10/7/2007
Status: offline

The other thread that spoke of abuse is not at all what I meant by "taking down". That was a terrible way to treat someone.

_____________________________

You can put away your masquerade
You won't ever have to be afraid of Me
Open up your eyes and see what is in store
I must the One that you are searching for.

(in reply to Lockit)

RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/7/2009 9:50:33 AM

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

MistressFaye, I think you made yourself very clear and the reasoning in your post was very grounded, safe and sane and all that. lol I think it would be normal to feel some embarassment or something. It would also depend on who was there.

Each situation would be different and there is no way from what you said or posted, would I think you wouldn't look at the whole situation. We don't need a tree branch to show whatever it is that we feel in that moment and you were far from a tree branch! lol

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to MistressFaye1)

RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/7/2009 10:04:24 AM

Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline

Pardon my constant intrusion into the Ask a Mistress forum, it's simply more lively and fun here. Though BoiJen's question specified "in front of other FemDoms" I'm going to generalize it to dominants, for the purposes of my answer.

There is an expectation of a slave, though it varies from house to house. Pet's slave mantra is "You say, I do. I swallow. I thank you." No where does it include forming opinions, or saying no to tasks we agree she can and will do. Assuming I'm doing my job (as there are expectations on slave owners as well), her refusal would come as a complete surprise to me. I'd be taken aback, and in that time of surprise, I'd have a brief moment to ponder why.

I have some experience with curbing such sudden and awkward changes in atmosphere. I'd probably switch from tasks to humiliation, but soothe the poor pet with a pat on the head. Hopefully the atmosphere remains fairly stable, and I can deal with the toy's limitations when I get back to my lab. I understand playing in public magnifies the force of acts such that a "simple" task becomes mentally, physically, emotionally laborious.

Assuming it was a case of willful disobedience, a "No" followed with a grin and a wag of the tail, I'd play it cool. Remembering I have the power, I switch her task to something in which she receives, not provides. Example, if she was tasked with stripping, and said no, then I would have her be fondled. Should she continue this "no" attitude I'd be forced to set down my toy.

If my pet was aware her obedience was being tested, and she purposefully failed the task, I would be disappointed. My punishment for disappointment is not, in any way, fun. If I had Pet sleep in a different room, she'd cry all night. It's not where I want "us" to ever be.
If my pet was aware her obedience was being tested, and failed the task outside of her control, there is no punishment. Her failing as a slave is my failing as a trainer. Share victory, share defeat.

_____________________________

The Loving Owner of HisHeavan

... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

(in reply to BoiJen)

RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/7/2009 10:04:54 AM

Posts: 469
Joined: 9/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

Okay....because Lockit so kindly asked me not to tweek her butt....

How should a FemDom react when a "slave" she owns says "no" to something they've already agreed to? what if this refusal was in front of Her friends? does it matter if those friends are vanilla or other FemDoms? To quote myself..."I mean there's an expectation if someone calls themselves a 'slave', right?"

MsK's boi

If she has consented in the past but asks that you not do it anymore, thats her way of saying this is not working anymore for me. A sub has the right to change limits at any time. Thats what rights, limits and consent is all about.

When I consider taking in a sub, I make it clear that I will address limits in the proper forum only and that personal issues as to our relationship are always done in private. She may request a discuss on changing limits, but I always make it clear that as long as what I desire is SSC/RACK, I may or may not honour that limit unless it causes her emotional, mental or physical harm.

A slave has no rights but is entitled to limits. If I should own a slave, once SSC/RACK is established, she has no right to change them.

Just remember, it is always your pleasure, not hers. That is, unless you decide to give her pleasure rather than her to expect it. If she submits on the premise that she should always be granted her pleasue as well, perhaps you might remind her otherwise. After all, you are the Domme.

Feel free to correspond with me on the other side.

LBO

(in reply to BoiJen)

RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/7/2009 10:17:54 AM

Posts: 2860
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline

"Milady...in the kitchen, he told me that he had had unprotected sex multiple times in the past year. So many partners, and unprotected...I just could not do as you asked and I did not want to embarrass him or his Lady in front of the group. I am sorry..."

"I thought I could do it, but when it actually came time, I just knew that if I did as you asked, I was going to throw up. I was so nervous and scared...As it was, it was all I could do to keep from throwing up right there on the spot. I am sorry...."

The other thread was about sucking cock and this was just two of the multiple reasons I could see for someone backing out of a previously made agreement.

I think most people - submissive or slave - are sincere in their desire to serve and obey. But sometimes, information, either internal or external come to light that change things. Now, I would hope that a request might be made to speak in private to your Mistress to clarify that information and get either reprieve or further instructions.

But it's not as if we were talking about refusing to serve tea and cookies...

< Message edited by OttersSwim -- 3/7/2009 10:19:55 AM >

_____________________________

I am on a journey of authenticity and self.

(in reply to LeatherBentOne)

RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/7/2009 10:44:51 AM

Posts: 276
Joined: 10/7/2007
Status: offline

Lockit... thank you.

_____________________________

You can put away your masquerade
You won't ever have to be afraid of Me
Open up your eyes and see what is in store
I must the One that you are searching for.

(in reply to Lockit)

RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/7/2009 11:23:43 AM

Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

A slave who essentially arranges to publicly humiliate his owner by first agreeing to and consenting to her authority in private, and then deliberately denying and undermining her authority in public, probably needs to be released from service. I certainly know that I would be extremely hurt and EXTREMELY angry if my boy did this to me; if he deliberately deceived me privately and then betrayed me publicly, I would probably remove his collar and send him packing.

This is not the bad old days where we bully and torture people who don't recognize our authority. Most of us live in negotiated relationships where both sides communicate both their desires and doubts. If a person says he will obey in theory and then won't or can't obey in practice, especially when he's given you every reason to believe that he can, and he wants to--what exactly does that say about his ability to be truthful and forthcoming in the rest of the relationship? It seems to me that this person is kidding someone--either you or themselves. Either way, it's grounds for removal of collar.

Slave-mistress relationships are intimate bonds. They are not for everyone. You do not enter into a relationship as a slave just because the fantasy gets you hard--you have to be ready to deliver real service, real obedience, and real surrender. If you can't do that, stick to being a "submissive" or a "bottom" and negotiate your relationships accordingly. The collar is not just a fashion accessory and not everyone can or should wear one.

_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to MistressFaye1)

RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/7/2009 11:37:19 AM

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

First and foremost I would look at why.

What I would do afterwards would depend upon that. Too many variables to answer further.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to BoiJen)

RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/7/2009 11:54:54 AM

Posts: 1467
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline

I'd have to know more specifics re what exactly 'they already agreed to'.

However, since I rarely, if ever, find myself in a gaggle of Dommes and subs, I'm probably not the best person to to address this particular question.

All the best,

TexasMaam

_____________________________

~ My opinions are not necessarily those of the management... ~

(in reply to BoiJen)

RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/7/2009 5:58:48 PM

Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline

As a sub, there were some physical activities i thought would be "hot" but when faced with the reality, they weren't! Generally i at least tried it once, before re-opening the conversation about that activity with Master. Interestingly, He's shared the change of opinion in that He thought it would be hot too, but when it came to it, it wasn't! Not always clear what made it "cold" for Him, sometimes it was the activity itself (He saw it as unpleasant or impractical), other times it was that i was not enjoying it that killed the desire in Him to do it. While that led to a bit of guilt on my part, He has always said that We are more important than any particular activity and He was proud of me for giving it a try. So We've simply pushed those activities aside into the "don't want to go there again" basket. However, none of those occurred in public, because We have tried new things out in private first, which seems to Us the most sensible approach. However, should there be an occasion in public where for some reason i felt i couldn't do something i may even have done lots of times in private, i know Master would be FAR more concerned about me as His sub/slave (i'm probably halfway between most people's "daffynitions" of those 2), than He would be about other people. He'd want to know why for sure but His basic assumption would be "there's got to be a good reason behind this". He loves me, He loves "Us" and He wouldn't put that at risk for any ego about being embarrassed. i'm not a brat (i'm cheeky but basically driven by a desire to be obedient) so He knows it wouldn't be me setting Him up to fail. Never!

As a Domme ... the same applies. Yes I would prefer a sub actually give something a try, but it would be approached in a loving, supportive environment in the first place where if he simply couldn't ... I would be in a position to understand that. It would be back to the drawing board next time We were alone and able to discuss it. I am not a punishment-oriented person in the first place so the thought of punishing someone before getting to the bottom of the reason for the refusal just doesn't compute with Me. If upon discussion, it was found to be a deliberate deception, brattiness or a stubborn refusal to entertain the notion with no logical reason (after previously indicating a willingness) ... then and only then would that sub be on seriously borrowed time!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to TexasMaam)

RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/7/2009 6:05:31 PM

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

Like LaT, I would also have to know the 'what' and the 'why' for the reason I was being told no. Not everything is on the same scale.

The thing that keeps bouncing around in My head is, how many times do we tell people that, just because it's kinky, doesn't mean you stop using your common sense? From the Mistress angle, of course we want to believe ourselves the type that has our s-type's well being as a priority. Yet, we also say that a D-type isn't a mind reader. I may not know all of the traumas that a person has been through in their life, and a command of Mine might bring that to the forefront.

I've never been disobeyed in public. In front of kinky folks or otherwise. However, I do know it would piss Me off, which is one automatic reason that there would be a discussion prior to any action. I wouldn't want to be punishing in anger in the first place.

Yes, there is a certain expectation for someone who calls themselves a slave. Better yet if he calls himself My slave.

"Protect My property."

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to TexasMaam)

RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/8/2009 7:53:56 AM

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

LadyPact, that is one thing I also took away from that scenario that bothered me. Punishment in anger. I just cannot even fathom a situation even similar so it's hard for me to envision what I would do, in one like that.

I am not into the type of scenario portrayed in the other thread. I am not saying the entire concept is invalid, I am sure there are many people that love it and handle it in a more responsible manner than that example. It is simply something that doesn't interest me, so difficult to imagine. I had to leave that aspect of it alone.

But it was the temper tantrum way of striking back, the total disregard for care, the lack of awareness of "why". Just, "my ego was bruised, I lost my temper, I beat the guy bloody to show them all!!!" Irresponsible on several levels in my point of view.

Then there is the aspect of my own ego that wouldn't set my slave up to "perform" when we hadn't done some sort of trial run. Something that would give the slave a level of awareness of what was to be expected, and for myself, knowing that she really could do what I wanted. In addition, because I know her, know her devotion and how failing me would devastate her, I wouldn't want to set her up to fail.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 3/8/2009 7:55:19 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/8/2009 8:46:14 AM

Posts: 59
Joined: 3/19/2005
Status: offline

No one can predict every possible circumstance that may come up when dealing with scenes that involve others.

A submissive / slave should have what I call a "I am desperate to talk to you / emergency!" signal that is a signal between only the Dominant and the submissive that others are not aware of. This allows a Dominant to be aware that a sudden break or a private moment is needed between them where things can be quickly and quietly discussed without an embarassing moment happening in front of others. Some feel that this gives to much power to the submissive. I do not. I make it clear up front that this signal is to be used when a sub feels that s/he feels a possible life/death or emotionally detrimental situation is about to happen. If it is falsely called...well that is something that can delt with later in private as well. If it is something that is a repeated wall of resistance then even more discussion / communication and or training is needed. The posting on the other thread is why communication, and "training" is so important before a sub is thrust into a situation that can be unpredictable.

In the end, the Dominant saves face and remains in control of the situation, and can change the course of the evening without the embarassment of a total refusal being an outright issue that can ruin an evening for all involved and no one but the Dominant and the submissive are privy to it.

I will say this if a submissive still did an outright refusal in front of friends even with this safe guard, then he would be put in the corner or I would instruct him to dress and leave; I would find other ways to keep my friends entertained and the other subs busy for the evening. Basically he would no longer exist to me for that night. I would decide how to deal and what actions to take with my submissive at a later date when I could do so without the anger being a issue.. and yes the action would anger me to the point of a possible dismissal. There is rarely an excuse for embarassing a Dominant on purpose when there are other ways of dealing with the situation.

< Message edited by MzticStormz -- 3/8/2009 8:58:50 AM >

(in reply to LaTigresse)

RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/8/2009 8:56:14 AM

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

I agree MzticStormz. I feel it empowers both the dominant and submissive or couple. It isn't something I view as topping. My relationships are not about one, but two and if my submissive isn't happy... I won't be either. Setting up ways of communication in public is one of the first things I establish once I know we have a foundation set up. I no longer play publically but am open to other things and I want the security for both of us to be able to speak even without words. One look will do. If we don't know one another well enough to know a look when it is given, we shouldn't be playing with other's. That's how I see it.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to MzticStormz)

RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/8/2009 10:10:06 AM

Posts: 894
Joined: 12/17/2008
Status: offline

Miss Lockit,

As always, your responses show an understanding and sensitivity that compliment your confidence. You seem to take your own relationships and your advice seriously, but keep things in perspective with a wonderful sense of humor. Thank you for weighing in. When I see your name on a thread, I generally take a look.

yours

_____________________________

May your service of love a beautiful thing; want nothing else, fear nothing else and let love be free to become what love truly is. -- Hadewijch of Antwerp

As a rule, I don't like to make general statements.

(in reply to Lockit)

RE: "Slave" disobedience? - 3/8/2009 10:22:53 AM

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

<<< Slips on the butter from that last post and falls on her ass! "You are soooo in trouble dude!"

But... thank you!

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to YoursMistress)

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Mistress >> "Slave" disobedience?

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2024

Terms of Service

0.840