uncollared conflict (Full Version)

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drtygrl -> uncollared conflict (3/7/2009 10:07:16 PM)

I’m an independent submissive. I can play with whom I want, whenever.  I maintain the power and control around the play. I need to, but I don’t want to. I pretend he’s in charge, but he really isn’t. He creates the pain, but only because I allow it. The pain is erotic, but the submission is an infrequent escape from reality. Sometimes I want to let go of all of it. I want to be beaten until I cry. I don’t cry nearly enough. I don’t want to be constantly controlled, but I need some control. What a fucking contradiction! I can’t make it make sense. Anyone?



WestBaySlave -> RE: uncollared conflict (3/7/2009 11:00:35 PM)

 Everyone finds a spot where they are comfortable. Your needs don't need to fit into a predefined idea of what it is be submissive, or a masochist, or anything else for you to be who you are.

What some of us find - and many of us hope to find - is someone who's compatible with our wants and needs.

Personally, though I'm a very different type of submissive, I've certainly met both submissives and dominants who seek something that's pretty much the counterpart to what you describe.



Honsoku -> RE: uncollared conflict (3/7/2009 11:23:39 PM)

Not sure what you hope to accomplish with this. If you don't want the need to maintain control to persist, you need to address why you feel the need. The only person who knows that right now is yourself.



FelineFae -> RE: uncollared conflict (3/7/2009 11:51:14 PM)

not everything has to make sence. if it's not broke, don't need to fix it.



SylvereApLeanan -> RE: uncollared conflict (3/8/2009 12:27:42 AM)

Not really sure what you're asking.  No one can "make it make sense" for you and, as several have said, it doesn't really need to make sense as long as it works for you.  Still, I'm going to go out on the limb of speculation and suggest a couple of things.  Take it or leave it, it's just food for thought.
 
You say you need to feel as though you have some control over the play but you don't always want it.  Let me suggest that what you really "need" and might not have found yet is a partner who has earned your trust well enough that you feel comfortable giving up any semblance of control.  This doesn't mean you have no say in what happens, only that you're not topping from below, which is what you seem to be doing now.  I could be completely off base, but that was the first thing that came to mind when I read your OP. 
 
If you don't have someone to play with who has earned that level of trust from you, I'd suggest you give a lot of thought to why he hasn't.  A lot of people jump into relationships, kinky or otherwise, without getting to know the other person very well.  Some people have trust issues.  It might help you to examine your relationships, past and present, to figure out where you are, how you got there, and where you'd like to be in the future.
 
And if I'm completely wacked, feel free to ignore this.



SteelofUtah -> RE: uncollared conflict (3/8/2009 12:41:26 AM)

It is hard being something you yourself cannot define. It is difficult wanting something and yet having something inside you rebel against that desire.

I have said this many times before so where others will groan having to skim through old stuff you might find something comforting in it.

In My opinion Control and Power are Illusions because no matter how much we give into this idea of Consentual or Non-Consentual Slavery we always know that the door is where it was when we started and at any time No matter what side of the whip you are on you have the Legal Right to walk away.

That being said the Control that I have over my girl is one of my making but she was the one who put it there. I figure that to be someone who is in control all the time one should be able to handle being in control, the goal here is to have you see me as someone you want to give control over you too. If I come on too strong or expect too much too soon then you will figure there is someone better suited for you out there and leave me and my particular for of discipline behind.

However if I take the time to give you what you need, even give you what you want and at the same time hold back some of my own latent desires then I will create an ideal environment. When I feel that this environment is strong enough I will slowly expect more and more of you all with the notion that if you choose you can leave at any time. The Idea for me is to make leaving me more unacceptabe to you than doing what I ask of you.

To me this is control. To make everyting you do, be easier than the thought of leaving me is. It takes time and it takes dedication to the individual, in reality the thought of the submissive leaving can be just as unacceptable to the Dom as it is for the submissive, but in reality that is what I want. I want a bond where neither of us wants to be without the other.

I am glad to say I have that with andi, now if only we could find another person who wants that with both of us.

Steel



WyldHrt -> RE: uncollared conflict (3/8/2009 12:52:09 AM)

I agree with Syl (not really a shocker, that). It sounds like you have been a bottom and liked it, but have not gotten to a place that allows you to let go of your control and submit to your partner. Looking at your relationships and the level of trust you have in them would be a good first step, as you cannot submit to someone who hasn't earned enough trust to make you feel safe in letting go.
Just more food for thought.   



InTonguesslave -> RE: uncollared conflict (3/8/2009 3:10:16 AM)

i know what youre talking about.  its about letting go completely and thats so hard to do.

i just think that maybe its something you may do one day when youre with just one person and they will help you to get there through trust and pushing you a bit too - and i dont mean through pushing more pain - i dont see it as a pain enduced thing. more a pshchological thing.

you can be beaten into a pulp but that wont necessarily mean that you give everything up in youre head.  youve given up youre body and maybe even youre emotions, but not the mental process of absolute acceptance that youre D is in full and complete control of all of you.

you dont need to be collared to get to that point of acceptance.  and i dont think its something you can do properly on youre own, in that youre D needs to wish for it too in order for you to feel you have somewhere to go with the submission you develop.  otherwise its likely youd hit a bad subdrop and that will put you off doing it again

ive submitted to my submission lots of times infact all of my life, but im only now learning how to submit to my Master.  it aint easy but it is a process that for me anyway, has to make sense.

for instance right now i have to give up my pride - my pride represents my independance - to be independant i cannot fully submit to Sir - therefore i must give up my pride - that makes sense and im working on it.

with me its lots of little and big hurdles - its not a state of mind that i have suddenly dropped into and i wouldnt want it to be that way - its a process



RedMagic1 -> RE: uncollared conflict (3/8/2009 6:07:02 AM)

You can be a dominant bottom.  There are both men and women on the boards who are in control of their relationships, but enjoy being flogged, etc., at times.

Don't waste a lot of energy being confused about what you should be.  Focus on who you are.



DesFIP -> RE: uncollared conflict (3/8/2009 6:59:16 AM)

Submitting to someone doesn't have to mean you have no control. Pick someone who wants the amount of control you want to give up, to begin with. Don't pick someone who wants a no limits slave from day one.

Any dominant who expects you to hand over your money, title to your car, prevent you from seeing your family isn't someone you should submit to. You should submit to someone who understands that trust takes time to be built, and who is willing to give you the time you need to be able to trust them.

Control here has deepened over time, as I have come to know that he always makes the best possible decision in a situation. But in order to know that about him, I had to see him in all kinds of situations where he did make good decisions. And that took a lot of time. As in years going by before he took control of areas that in the beginning he wouldn't have wanted to get involved in.



Kanojosama -> RE: uncollared conflict (3/8/2009 11:03:29 AM)

Sounds like me (W) before I ended up Domme ... used to be switch. You're really not a contradiction though, since a submissive has the "no means no" and there's always a safeword -- Besides, with D/s the Domme should really listen to what the submissive wants anyway.



Kanojosama -> RE: uncollared conflict (3/8/2009 11:08:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

You can be a dominant bottom.  There are both men and women on the boards who are in control of their relationships, but enjoy being flogged, etc., at times.

Don't waste a lot of energy being confused about what you should be.  Focus on who you are.



Quite true -- (R) is quite sadistic as submissives go...
... as RedMagic1 said -- "Focus on who you are" unless you just want to make youself match a title or role.... but why?



drtygrl -> RE: uncollared conflict (3/8/2009 2:20:47 PM)

quote:

youve given up youre body and maybe even youre emotions, but not the mental process of absolute acceptance that youre D is in full and complete control of all of you.
quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslave

Thanks for all the input- InTonguesslave's comments really resonated. It's not a matter fitting into a definition. I gave up on that a long time ago! It's a matter of submitting mentally as well as physically and emotionally. I feel like in order to do that I need to give up a part of myself- you mentioned your pride. Once you made that compromise, was it worth it? Does it all balance out? The the fulfillment of submission trump everything else?



MasterFireMaam -> RE: uncollared conflict (3/8/2009 3:07:01 PM)

Only you can make it make sense. I'd explore why you "need" to remain in control and why you don't want to. Learning about these core issues will help a lot, in my opinion.

Master Fire



DesFIP -> RE: uncollared conflict (3/9/2009 5:59:30 AM)

I don't know about Lally but here humbling me isn't what he sets out to do. He is proud of me and he wants me to feel secure about my accomplishments and abilities also. He wants me to agree with him because I can see that he has made the smartest decision, not because I'm afraid of what will happen if I disagree. We don't do humiliation and degradation. Some do, not all. Some have punishment dynamics, some don't.

Pick someone you can really trust and let the relationship grow on its own.



feydeplume -> RE: uncollared conflict (3/9/2009 11:23:42 AM)

Lemme take this line by line because there is A LOT here.

I’m an independent submissive.
Some people call this being a Bottom, not a submissive. If it isn't the power exchange but the sensation play that really moves you MOST of the time, then why even attach this label to yourself. Be a Bottom and be proud of it.

I can play with whom I want, whenever.  I maintain the power and control around the play.
I bet you can! A good Bottom with serious pain slut leanings can have her pick of partners to play with, but it ends when the play ends. Both walk away happy with a good time, not caught up in the relationship between them.

I need to, but I don’t want to. I pretend he’s in charge, but he really isn’t.
Here is where the 'issues' really come in, as i see it. IF you accept the label Bottom, then yeah you need to, but if you want to submit, then it is hard on your brain to NOT submit while submitting. Is there a particular "HE" in this or are you speaking generally? How mad are you at "HIM" for not really being in control and how mad are you at yourself for not giving him control, or even sharing it with "HIM"?  And most importantly, who and how and what happened that you have this kind of trust issue. (that is the first one to deal with BTW)

He creates the pain, but only because I allow it.
That is always the reality. You can always safe-word, get up, walk away,  whatever. The play only happens with consent. IF you want someone to push those limits and take you to new pain, there has to be trust (see above about what to deal with first)

The pain is erotic, but the submission is an infrequent escape from reality.
So accept that you are a masochist and move on with your life. Submission, and Masochism are very different things that SOMETIMES go together, but not always, or even that often. Fun pain is good! floaty happy subspace is good! Sometimes, for some people, they go together. But not every time,  not always, and not even for those that love both pain and submission.

Sometimes I want to let go of all of it. I want to be beaten until I cry. I don’t cry nearly enough.
****this screams 'issues' to me. Why don't you cry and what do you NEED to cry about. BDSM can be therapeutic and spiritual and erotic and so many other things, but your Top or D is NOT your therapist. If you want enough pain to give the the catharsis of tears, see the bit about trust again and ask why YOU keep stopping yourself from having what you want.

I don’t want to be constantly controlled, but I need some control.
Some control? Have you considered a Leather family? A poly BDSM "House", belonging to a group where a D or two keeps a loving eye on you so that you have some D type in your day to day life but not micromanaging and you still get to be as free of an agent as you want to be (depending on the rules of the House, Family, or Group). They can provide the safety net to keep you from taking too many risks and let you take the ones you need to take. OR how about a friendship with deep bonds with a switch? How about a D from your same gender? There are tons of ways, healthy, open, loving ways to have someone that has your back and yanks your chain (in a good way) from time to time without giving up your status as free agent.

What a fucking contradiction! I can’t make it make sense. Anyone?
Welcome to not being a character is some fictional book or movie. I don't see ANY contradictions, just some places where some self reflection and more information might help ease some of the angst and fear and inner isolation that you seem to be feeling would help.

Oh and you are not alone. At all. TONS of people on CM have or are going through or will go through this or something like it this week.

edited to be easier to read, i hope.



catize -> RE: uncollared conflict (3/9/2009 5:58:18 PM)

I suggest you print out feydeplume’s post and read it until it sinks in.  Good stuff!



Huntertn -> RE: uncollared conflict (3/9/2009 8:03:14 PM)

Its hard to let go...to unburden yourself..to let another take you in their arms and enter their mind...if only for a few hours...thereby letting yourself go..and actually refreshing yourself ...in full submission...if even its just your own desires..does that about size it up?



magicescape -> RE: uncollared conflict (3/9/2009 9:48:37 PM)

Good point



drtygrl -> RE: uncollared conflict (3/9/2009 11:27:03 PM)

Tears are the place where growth is- when limits are pushed to the point of reaching a new place. It is not crying for catharsis- but a representation of the level of exchange that has occurred, and it’s a level that I have reached only a few times   I see the relation between uncertainties of submission with the fear of intimacy, and in that context it makes much more sense- in that the apprehension is more of a defense mechanism rooted in a situation that is no longer existent     It’s easy to be a masochist- take the pain, love it and go home. Being submissive is much harder to express and for me it involves compromising a level autonomy that I have worked at for a long time to achieve. I guess what it comes down to- and appreciated all your words which helped me realize it- is that the situation exists in my head. The truth is it will take more inner strength for me to put my ego aside and be submissive than it is to be defiant and lose the pleasure of genuine submission.   Feydeplume- thanks for your insight and candid remarks. It was truly helpful in my attempt to make sense of it all



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