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UPSG -> RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope (3/20/2009 10:23:09 PM)
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I'm not going to get involved in this thread though I could point out a slew of inaccuracies from Latin Rite and Eastern Rite married Priests to the prevalence issues of children molested in their homes by family or friends (most sexual assault is not necessarily related to not having a "girl friend"). Instead I'm just going to address you post quickly and refrain from involving myself in those other issues, debates, or digging deeper into the thread.
I feel your post rates a reply that is why I step back into address it.
In my opinion I did not attack anyone with an ad hominem. I in fact appealed to reason and used what I have been taught are tools to deduce an arguers intent and meaning.
A reader is suppose to pay attention to diction (word choice) and tone when reading a post or essay and so forth, to figure out the writers intent. Granted a reader can misunderstand or a writer can fail to communicate their intent or message well. Happens all the time.
I also used the tools of logic and scientific methodology. Basically I adhered to what secular or atheist people often complain religious folks or religious advocates fail to do. However, all to many secular and atheist people never develop these tools either. They hear cool words like "logic" or "science" and banter them about without ever really taking the time to further develop understanding of these things, which being cool, rings the loudest in our contemporary time.
I freely admit I have my own limitations. There are many things I need improvement on. My vocabulary while not the deepest bucket is a pale with some depth. My spelling and grammar can use improvement. But I work on myself.
One of the things that drives me to "know" is the fact - which the media never tires of reminding the public or myself - I as a defined "Black man" am not suppose to know. I'm suppose to be dumb and ultimate die in violence or in prison. The latter two may come to be fulfilled but I be damned if I'm going to be ignorant as all hell. Not when it's in my means not to be.
There are other things that motivate me to "know," and I will not name them all, but I will say various Brazilian men I have read about that have one or more college degrees, and are accomplished Black Belts in Brazilian Jujitsu, helps at least a little in me desiring to work my brain - or even my body. I'm fortunate to be born in a city and nation with a very good infrastructure - so why not be grateful and use the free public library or try to obtain what education I can even if it is a little. There is God. I should try to further my mind or talents if I can. And there is anger. Seething anger.
"Black," Catholic, and short. That's what you call being tripled fuck. At least in the United States - in Brazil I would fit right in (average height is lower). In fact I hope to move to some part of Latin America one day, for myself and to be of benefit to society in some region thereabouts. You have upper-class women in Brazil that can speak four languages, have two or three degrees, and are world traveled.
On the other hand you have some nouveau riche in the U.S. who probably couldn't even point the United States out on a map (and admittedly geography is not a strong point of mine). My patience with people in the United States - after running into so many that are willfully ignorant - is running thin. Going by the statistics and never tiring media reports I'm suppose to be the one that doesn't "know," the happy, knee-slapping, sambo giddy as all can be.
But as it is, when I run into forgeiners often times they are surprised I know something about their country, and not because I'm "Black" but because I'm "American." I wouldn't say I know a lot about anything but I try to keep learning - if only slowly and in tiny doses. To me - at least from my experiences here in the U.S. - most Black people don't know shit about Black-American history (and please don't get on the topic of Africa because all to many speak of it as if it's a single country [8|]), most Catholics don't know shit about Catholicism (though most have good "instincts" of the faith), most Jews don't know shit about Judaism or Jewish history (yeah... they came down through a matriarchal line but centuries ago they also used to antagonize Christians about the hilarity and debaseness of the possibility of God coming through something as vile as a woman's vagina), and really Americans in general are just ignorant on lots of shit and just parrot what the fuck they heard on TV.
My points about the true premises and false conclusion, in my oipinion holds. And no people weren't simply in a polite disagreement with Catholic doctrine on condoms.
For more on the willful ignorance in contemporary U.S. refer to this. (one of my professors sent out to all of his students)
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/14/books/14dumb.html?ex=1360731600&en=9b835f267a3ba9fa&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink quote:
Ms. Pickler threw up both hands and looked at the large blackboard perplexed. “I thought Europe was a country,” she said. Playing it safe, she chose to copy the answer offered by one of the genuine fifth graders: Hungary. “Hungry?” she said, eyes widening in disbelief. “That’s a country? I’ve heard of Turkey. But Hungry? I’ve never heard of it.” quote:
Ms. Jacoby, whose book came out on Tuesday, doesn’t zero in on a particular technology or emotion, but rather on what she feels is a generalized hostility to knowledge. She is well aware that some may tag her a crank. “I expect to get bashed,” said Ms. Jacoby, 62, either as an older person who upbraids the young for plummeting standards and values, or as a secularist whose defense of scientific rationalism is a way to disparage religion.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Vendaval
UPSG,
You completely missed the entire point of of my post, failed to address your own personal attacks on people and resorted to claiming everyone who disagrees with the contraception policies of the Catholic Church are bigots.
Man, you are so caught up in searching for bigotry that you are insulting people that you don't even know who disagree on a particular set of teachings. That says more about your perceptions than about their positions.
quote:
ORIGINAL: UPSG
quote:
ORIGINAL: Vendaval
UPSG,
Hey, don't be dissin my homegirls now.
beth is a very smart and astute woman who calls bullshit when something reeks.
And you think kitten would support the Nazi party? Man, she is Jewish.
Now it is my turn. Half my family is Protestant and half is Catholic so I know a great deal about the positives and negatives of both. And in regards to the Catholic Church there are a great many kind hearted church members who do charitable works to help their fellow human beings. What is pissing people off here in this thread is the specific policies and actions of the Church hierarchy. Many Catholic families in more developed countries do not follow the Church teachings on contraception because of the sheer impracticality of those rules.
What does Jewish have to do with not supporting the Nazis? I don't think Stalin didn't like Jews and certainly quite a number of communist didn't care for Jews does that mean no Jews have supported communism?
The Nazi's persecuted Catholic Gypsies but that didn't stop some Catholics from belonging to the the Nazi party.
People are presenting true premises with false conclusions and consequently their arguments aren't valid.
The Pope teaches no Catholic should ever use a condom.
All Catholics recognize the Pope as the head of their Church.
Therefore Catholics will not use condoms.
It's illogical because it is open to counterexamples. (I'm rolling the dice on that because I can see the illogical without writing up a truth table)
And by your own admission above this argument - as a hypothesis - fails the test of scientific methodology.
When people hate based off of irrationality it is fair to conclude they are motivated by bigotry. Furthermore, the tone of the posts reveals that's what is at the root of these antagonisms. (tone and diction communicate intent)
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