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Endorphins - 8/16/2004 6:39:35 AM

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Warm Greetings,

I have heard many times submissives talk about endorphins. I have never experienced them though I have been in situations where I think maybe I should have. I have found in the past when it hits a certain level of pain or if I know its going to be intense, I just turn off at the beginning and dont feel anything. After, its like nothing happened.

What I am wondering....what exactly do you feel when you get an endorphin rush? and how does your body respond?

deanna

RE: Endorphins - 8/16/2004 8:16:27 AM

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Hi deanna,

The endorphin rush feels like utter contentment to me. Supreme bliss. Calm. Everything is okay, and will be okay forever.

Apparently the feeling is related to a heroin high, but I can't compare the two since I've never done heroin, and morphine just makes me sleepy.

But I have a feeling you may have experienced endorphins in other contexts: runner's high, maybe? meditation perhaps? There are other ways to get to that blissful place than just traditional pain. But even with pain, I need a component of tension release, or pleasure to get an endorphin high. That means no fear.

I think when the pain is coupled with fear, the sensation is more like you've described: turning off at the beginning. That's probably due to the adrenalin overwhelming the endorphins. In my experience, I can't be afraid, or I won't get the benefits of endorphins. I think the fear is why I haven't ever experienced utter contentment during childbirth.

Hope this helps,

January

_____________________________

[link: http://www.bookstrand.com/miss-you-sir] Miss You, Sir by January Rowe is available from Siren now! It's my latest smokin' hot bdsm romance.[/link]

(in reply to deannalynn)

RE: Endorphins - 8/16/2004 10:27:57 AM

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I think there is a slight blurring of the lines here between Endorphins and Andrenaline. Endorphins are the chemical release our body creates for alleviation of pain, produced as a result of body stress. Andrenaline (or epinephrine) is a hormone produced during intense emotional states such as fear and rage and, in many cases the most related to us, pain which increases the heart rate, relaxes lungs and intestinal muscles and increases certain metabolic processes. This is normally in reality the feeling most people go into as a "subspace" in conjunction with the Endorphins.

January is right in the fact that the blissful feelings one experiences after sex may be endorphin related, though they can also be produced by a wide range of activities like meditation, deep breathing, even eating spicy food.

Sorry...but I don't wear my lab coat for nothing.

< Message edited by afmvdp -- 8/16/2004 10:33:00 AM >

(in reply to January)

RE: Endorphins - 8/16/2004 4:27:23 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: afmvdp
Sorry...but I don't wear my lab coat for nothing.

Do you suppose endorphins are the reason why so many folks say "chemistry is important to me"?

(in reply to afmvdp)

RE: Endorphins - 8/16/2004 6:04:09 PM

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Doesn't have to be triggered by pain, slave. The night that you were given a disciplinary raping and shook for minutes afterward and then lay curled at the foot of the bed not wanting to move and barely able to speak you had the experience that they're talking about. You've just never had it from pain.

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Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to deannalynn)

RE: Endorphins - 8/16/2004 6:53:25 PM

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Living beings develop affection for others because of a unique chemical reaction in their bodies. Love is a chemical reaction, like the brewing beer stalk, which charges up certain chemicals, endorphins, inside your body to make you feel good. Goose bumps, sinking and choking of heart, dry mouth, lost speech, blushing cheeks, tremor in legs are all responses induced chemically.

Feeling good is an individual response determined by cultural, social and environmental factors. Setting aside the Aristotelian argument of what should make you feel good versus what does make you feel good, we can begin our discussion with the observation that if it did make you feel good, you will want more of it. It is similar to the addiction of an opiate junky (as you stated in your first post), except now your own body manufactures opiate.

Alot of it also comes down to pheromones which we continually exude, through the billions of pores of our skin and through our breath. These unique chemicals enter the bodies of those around us without them realizing of this chemical courtship. This culmination of chemicals between two people invoke a chemical reaction that stirs a pleasant response. With each exposure you become more dependent on this "feeling good" response. When the dependence becomes strong, we begin to experience withdrawal symptoms.

Easy to tear apart things like love from a chemists mind.

(in reply to January)

RE: Endorphins - 8/16/2004 7:18:31 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

Doesn't have to be triggered by pain, slave. The night that you were given a disciplinary raping and shook for minutes afterward and then lay curled at the foot of the bed not wanting to move and barely able to speak you had the experience that they're talking about. You've just never had it from pain.

What you're describing sounds a lot more like an adrenalin rush (and the resultant crash afterwards) than an endorphin high to me

_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

(in reply to Leonidas)

RE: Endorphins - 8/16/2004 7:26:08 PM

gitta

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SherriiA,

Funny thing is what Leonidas described is much the same as a slave has known, but this one has also known the same from a flogging, whipping, and other common BDSM sceens(as in pain stimulated)... the feeling and flying are the very same for this one be it sexual or pain (when a slave is shown disipline sexually it is not for pleasure)...no different. Could be wrong, but have lived a long while, and felt both, same thing in this ones book.

< Message edited by Gitta -- 8/16/2004 7:29:51 PM >

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smiles,
gitta

(in reply to SherriA)

RE: Endorphins - 8/16/2004 7:36:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gitta
Funny thing is what Leonidas described is much the same as a slave has known, but this one has also known the same from a flogging, whipping, and other common BDSM sceens(as in pain stimulated)... the feeling and flying are the very same for this one be it sexual or pain (when a slave is shown disipline sexually it is not for pleasure)...no different. Could be wrong, but have lived a long while, and felt both, same thing in this ones book.

I don't think it matters what triggers it. But for me at least, an endorphin high and an adrenalin rush are two different things.

Endorphins make me floaty, somewhat disconnected, things seem slowed down...I call it whitespace, cuz it's all white and fluffy and floaty.

Adrenalin is a rush like I get from fear or excitement - that jazzed up feeling, everything intensified, invincible...followed by the crash when they wear off, when I just feel exhausted and even conversation can be too much to deal with.

They're two very different experiences (and I've had plenty of both). I was simply commenting that what Leonidas described sounded more like one than the other.

_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

(in reply to gitta)

RE: Endorphins - 8/16/2004 7:42:51 PM

gitta

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SherriA,

Thank you for the clarification, albeit i knew what i meant, i too have experienced both, and during regular sex felt one, during sex as punishment felt the other. Not saying i am right, just saying what i know to be true for me only.

_____________________________

smiles,
gitta

(in reply to SherriA)

RE: Endorphins - 8/16/2004 7:44:37 PM

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Gitta, I wasn't disagreeing with you, nor do I think we're saying anything different.

_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

(in reply to gitta)

RE: Endorphins - 8/16/2004 7:46:00 PM

gitta

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SherriA,

Thank you.

_____________________________

smiles,
gitta

(in reply to SherriA)

RE: Endorphins - 8/16/2004 7:57:35 PM

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Joined: 4/26/2004
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Hello,

Endorphin rushes are old friends of mine from working out in martial arts where we would do things like spar for 4 hours straight or spar 3-4 on one. I would have muscle pain, bruises, and endorphin overload for days after. Yay.

What I do with the self-defense people now allows me to happily enjoy massive doses of adrenalin rushes. If you have trouble imagining why I would be adrenalized just think of kneeling down, calming yourself and forcing yourself to not move, and watching some enraged banshee charge you to give you a knee kick in the center of your face. I cant even imagine the level my students get to ;)

The problem with regular doses of adrenalin and the accompanying hormone which deals with it is that it will tend to do some damage to your body. The best way around this is to drink lots of water, especially after, and make sure you keep well fed and rested.

Enjoy!

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to gitta)

RE: Endorphins - 8/16/2004 9:08:12 PM

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: January

Hi deanna,

The endorphin rush feels like utter contentment to me. Supreme bliss. Calm. Everything is okay, and will be okay forever.

Apparently the feeling is related to a heroin high, but I can't compare the two since I've never done heroin, and morphine just makes me sleepy.

But I have a feeling you may have experienced endorphins in other contexts: runner's high, maybe? meditation perhaps? There are other ways to get to that blissful place than just traditional pain. But even with pain, I need a component of tension release, or pleasure to get an endorphin high. That means no fear.

I think when the pain is coupled with fear, the sensation is more like you've described: turning off at the beginning. That's probably due to the adrenalin overwhelming the endorphins. In my experience, I can't be afraid, or I won't get the benefits of endorphins. I think the fear is why I haven't ever experienced utter contentment during childbirth.

Hope this helps,

January

Adrenaline is an endorphin, just not one of the dopamine-like ones that make you feel 'swimmy' and 'fuzzy' and 'well.' Rather, it is a catecholamine (kat-e-cola-meen), which is also an endorphin but of the type that causes feeling 'startled' 'jazzed' 'wired' and 'afraid.' They usually (but not always) are the fight or flight endorphins and can be manipulated as readily as the others, once you know where the individual's buttons are. Other catecholamines that are stimulated in wiitwd are epinephrine, norepineprhine and dopamine. You like the dopamines, which often have an affinity for opioid receptors in the brain and body.

(in reply to January)

RE: Endorphins - 8/16/2004 9:10:25 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SherriA

What you're describing sounds a lot more like an adrenalin rush (and the resultant crash afterwards) than an endorphin high to me

While I won't argue with your nomenclature, I do know that you are infinitely more aware of biochemistry than this.

Adrenalin is an endorphin.

(in reply to SherriA)

RE: Endorphins - 8/17/2004 4:17:45 AM

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Joined: 8/4/2004
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Hello January,

I have experienced endorphin highs in other contexts'. I had just thought for some reason the ones associated with pain were different. If you can get that rush from jogging, its something I might just take up :)

There was no fear associated with the pain when I experienced it, I think maybe though it has much to do with frame of mind. Its just something that never has appealed to me in high doses, but have experienced for the pleasure of another.

wishing you well,

deanna

(in reply to January)

RE: Endorphins - 8/17/2004 4:28:36 AM

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Joined: 8/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: afmvdp

Alot of it also comes down to pheromones which we continually exude, through the billions of pores of our skin and through our breath. These unique chemicals enter the bodies of those around us without them realizing of this chemical courtship. This culmination of chemicals between two people invoke a chemical reaction that stirs a pleasant response. With each exposure you become more dependent on this "feeling good" response. When the dependence becomes strong, we begin to experience withdrawal symptoms.

Afmvdp,

Thank you, I have read things in the past, but never where it was so easily understood.

But that brings me to another question totally off topic. In the dynamics of some relationships; an example, Master/slave a need is devoloped by the slave. A dependence is almost formed where the thought of functioning on your own almost becomes alien. Why is that different from your traditional vanilla style relationships?

wishing you well,

deanna

(in reply to afmvdp)

RE: Endorphins - 8/17/2004 4:51:13 AM

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Joined: 8/4/2004
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Hi Sherri and gitta,

I have experienced adrenaline highs and this was totally different. What I had thought at different times when I experienced it...was that it was shock. Maybe its why I experienced; its not something I would want to feel again. The feeling of being totally detached and completely unfunctionable makes me very uncomfortable. Had the building been on fire, I doubt very much I could have willed my body to move.

wishing you both well,

deanna

(in reply to gitta)

RE: Endorphins - 8/17/2004 5:00:55 AM

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Joined: 8/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz

Other catecholamines that are stimulated in wiitwd are epinephrine, norepineprhine and dopamine. You like the dopamines, which often have an affinity for opioid receptors in the brain and body.

Hello MizSuz,

This has been totally educational, sometimes understanding the whys makes the what make more sense. I think my reading on the subjects though has been lacking, or maybe I just havent understood before. I had always associated dopamines with sexuality and thought the overabundance could cause a sexual addict. I guess triggering different brain functions and chemicals at different times can bring about the same feelings and responses.

wishing you well,

deanna

(in reply to MizSuz)

RE: Endorphins - 8/17/2004 5:07:39 AM

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Joined: 8/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

Doesn't have to be triggered by pain, slave. The night that you were given a disciplinary raping and shook for minutes afterward and then lay curled at the foot of the bed not wanting to move and barely able to speak you had the experience that they're talking about. You've just never had it from pain.

Master Lenoidas,

If my memory serves me correctly, its a feeling I experienced many times. *winks and smiles*

wishing you well,

deanna

(in reply to Leonidas)

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