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what to do if... - 3/9/2004 4:22:17 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

i'm not sure if i'm better off leaving well-enough alone.
i recently contacted someone in the interest of developing a friendship. the person responded eagerly and was nice to me, but in the e-mail exchange proceeded to horribly bad-mouth another profile listed on the site. i was linked to the other person's profile and told to stay away from that person at all costs.

based on the other person's profile and journal entries, and on my e-mail correspondants accusations (the other was too unattractive to get a vanilla parnter, resorted to bdsm out of bitterness toward the opposite sex, that the other is an irresponsible parent for posting pictures etc) it seems like the e-mail correspondant is just stirring up trouble.

my first reaction was to e-mail the person being slandered and tell him/her what was being done. then, of course, i thought through it and figured it's probably none of my buisness.

but... i don't know. i feel like the person who was badmouthed to me should get to defend him/herself.

it's best to leave well-enough alone, right?
please advise.

RE: what to do if... - 3/9/2004 5:04:23 PM

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

i'm not sure if i'm better off leaving well-enough alone.
i recently contacted someone in the interest of developing a friendship. the person responded eagerly and was nice to me, but in the e-mail exchange proceeded to horribly bad-mouth another profile listed on the site. i was linked to the other person's profile and told to stay away from that person at all costs.

based on the other person's profile and journal entries, and on my e-mail correspondants accusations (the other was too unattractive to get a vanilla parnter, resorted to bdsm out of bitterness toward the opposite sex, that the other is an irresponsible parent for posting pictures etc) it seems like the e-mail correspondant is just stirring up trouble.

my first reaction was to e-mail the person being slandered and tell him/her what was being done. then, of course, i thought through it and figured it's probably none of my buisness.

but... i don't know. i feel like the person who was badmouthed to me should get to defend him/herself.

it's best to leave well-enough alone, right?
please advise.

This type of stuff happens daily on the internet. Obviously the person who was badmouthing the other had a bad taste in their mouth. Whether real or not.
There was another thread on the boards about the same type of situation.
I'd say...ask yourself what would you do? Would you want to be notified? Or would you rather hear nothing?
Do whatever your heart tells you to do.

(in reply to perverseangelic)

RE: what to do if... - 3/9/2004 6:25:43 PM

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

it's best to leave well-enough alone, right?
please advise.

I suggest taking it all as evidence toward you making your own choices about those you are currently interacting with.

To tell someone else about it being perpetrated only prolongs your exposure to the drama, and may set you up for more involvement that you might not wish to have. I see this option as only being able to continue the drama, at the least for yourself - at worst for someone who may not have a clue (and, if she's like me, would rather not know) These things have a way of coming around in time...no need for anyone to bring it to me. If most of it falls away and I never learn about it between the time it is born and the time it dies, all the better. I'll still be here. :)

Conversely, you can take it for your own information, use the information to choose who you may or may not want close to you and then completely extricate yourself from the situation simply by not participating further.

I'd opt for B.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to perverseangelic)

RE: what to do if... - 3/9/2004 6:30:36 PM

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From: Santiago, Chile
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You can forward the information on to the site administration... if the same name pops up over and over, then they'll eventually take care of it. Even if they dont' do anything, it's one of those "well, I did something about it!" and you can let the matter go.

Stephan

_____________________________

http://www.vv3b.com/

"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to MizSuz)

RE: what to do if... - 3/9/2004 8:34:25 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
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thank you all for the advice. i'm going to forward info to the site admin, as that way i feel like i've done something, but don't have to get invovled in a situation that really has nothing to do with me.
thank you!

now, to figure out how to do that ....:)

(in reply to Voltare)

RE: what to do if... - 3/10/2004 12:00:26 AM

Posts: 418
Joined: 1/6/2004
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Collarme.com has a contact/feedback page listed as the leftmost link at the bottom of most collarme.com main site pages. Click there, or click below:

http://www.collarme.com/write.asp?user=Support

Either way, it is the user's input to [email protected] ...or you can e-mail directly from any e-mail program or online e-mail service to the e-mail address above.

1. You will need to select and copy the entire message you received (right click on message as you read it, click 'Select All'), and then right click again and click 'Copy' (or press CTRL + C to copy selected text).

2. Open the link above, or click the leftmost link at the bottom of any collarme.com main site page... and Paste contents into collarme message (using right-click and Paste option, or CTRL + V to paste).

3. Above your 'included message' annotate sender's ID, and date received.

4. Above all that... state your reason/rationale for forwarding the sender's message, date sent, and user ID to collarme support... why you feel the sender is acting contrary to the Terms Of Service (TOS) they agreed to abide by when becoming a member like everyone else.

If you feel the sender is in violation of the collarme TOS, state so... if you do not know of any specific TOS violations, your input's validity will be based on the facts you present in your message to collarme.com support... ie. your stated complaint, so the more valid info you provide, the more basis collarme will have for addressing the issue you report to them.

Case in point: I had to deal with a trolling Dom who insisted on writing my slave, repeatedly, despite her profile saying she was owned and requesting no e-mails from Masters/Mistresses or Dom/mes (only other subs/slaves).

This one Dom felt he was special, and kept writing anyway. Of course my slave forwards messages to me, but it became a logistical task and she simply gave me her password to avoid the Copy/Paste routine. After reading incessant messages from the Dom, I wrote to him and requested he conduct himself with honor in the future. He took offense, and posted my message in his 'little boy' journal... and really made himself out to be the ass he was. My message informewd others of his dishonorable behavior, and the posting of same actually worked against him, as it revealed his true nature to others who viewed his profile. I did not know he had posted my message to his journal, until someone wrote to me and told me. When I checked, my only objection was that my slave's ID was listed in my message he posted in his 'little boy' journal. I wrote him once again and requested he remove my slave's ID from the 'little boy' journal entry (and that I couldn't care less about my ID being posted there). He refused, and even posted that message also in his 'little boy' journal.

To make a long story short, I wrote to collarme using the link above, requesting my slave's ID be removed from his 'little boy' journal. Within a day or two, the entire 'little boy' journal entries involving me and my slave were gone... (by him at their instruction I assume)... but they may have done so themself, I don't really know. All I know is if I had not written, the 'little boy' journal entries would probably still be there?

One more note, preceeding his 'little boy' journal entries concerning me and my slave, he had written an entry about a certain female user ID (I had no knowledge of her, and never mentioned her to collarme). When his 'little boy' journal entries about me and my slave were gone... the entries about the other female were also gone? Coincidence??

Although your circumstance is entirely different, the input/feedback method to collarme is the same as you will need to use.

Hope this helps you in your situation.

Inyouagain

(in reply to perverseangelic)

RE: what to do if... - 3/10/2004 12:21:05 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

thank you!
i slept on this, 'cause i figured i was being hasty. it isn't any of my buisness, and as much as i don't like people badmouthing others, i have to leave it alone.
i don't think he violated TOS, was just a nasty nasty mean person.
heh. well, i know who -not- to interact with.

thanks again.

(in reply to inyouagain)

RE: what to do if... - 3/10/2004 4:44:46 PM

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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When in doubt, sleeping on it is usually a good bet.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to perverseangelic)

RE: what to do if... - 3/10/2004 6:57:32 PM

Posts: 41
Joined: 1/21/2004
Status: offline

there are no short cuts to finding out if someone is genuine. i have met others on the basis of reputation, thinking them to be credible, persons of integrity, and i have discovered the opposite to be true. what happens in the scene is that often submissives who have had bad experiences will not discuss it with others, for fear of being disloyal, or for whatever reason.....it is disappointing to know that many bad experiences could be avoided if people would just speak up about what has happened to them. i would have appreciated it had someone told me about the beloved Dominant who had a revolving door for numerous subs into his house, all the while telling me that i was HIS, and the only one.. the best thing i ever did was walk out of his house. there are no shortcuts. you must do your own homework, as much as possible prior to meeting, and then you must do the homework in person. check him/her out. if You pray, or believe in soulmates, ask that one come to you. put your request out there into the universe.
my best
bijou

(in reply to MizSuz)

RE: what to do if... - 3/11/2004 6:58:08 AM

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Joined: 2/23/2004
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Never judge others you haven't met in person or know nothing about is what I say.
We don't know who everyone who uses this sight is and to judge someone just because they can be bitter in a chat room on a given day or for a period of time is wrong.

(in reply to hisbijou)

RE: what to do if... - 3/11/2004 8:31:24 AM

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Joined: 1/11/2004
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quote:

Never judge others you haven't met in person or know nothing about is what I say.

It is human nature to judge. It is those that show poor or lack of judgement that ended up in barrels on Slavemaster's farm. Each person MUST judge what is right or wrong for them, what they like and don't like, what is safe, and if things are going the way we wish.

The very definition of *judge* states:

to form an opinion about through careful weighing of evidence and testing of premises

Are you going to say HONESTLY you do not do this? Often, what someone calls making a judgement, seem nothing more than using common sense. What I do *try* not to do though is place my standards on others. I honestly do believe YKINMK and as long as YOUR kink isn't hurting me or my kink isn't hurting you. too bad if we don't agree on things. But that doesn't mean I have to agree that your kink is *good*, *safe* or *honorable*. Just becase it is somes kink to cuckold does not mean I *have* to see it as something honorable (unless it's done with all parties actually knowing).

Sorry you don't agree, but see, even to not agree you are passing a judgement that someone elses opinion or actions are wrong,,,,

_____________________________

Sandy

Don't take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway...

(in reply to DomCT2002)

RE: what to do if... - 3/12/2004 12:08:49 AM

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Wow. I never met Hitler in person. Does that mean I shouldn't judge him? Lol. I think that you can and do judge people that are on here all the time. How else do you decide who to contact or who you will not? Now, your initial judgement can change. But we all still do judge.

(in reply to DomCT2002)

RE: what to do if... - 3/12/2004 5:52:35 AM

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: EStrict

It is human nature to judge. It is those that show poor or lack of judgement that ended up in barrels on Slavemaster's farm. Each person MUST judge what is right or wrong for them, what they like and don't like, what is safe, and if things are going the way we wish.

The very definition of *judge* states:

to form an opinion about through careful weighing of evidence and testing of premises

I think I agree with the spirit of your definition (as you subsequently explained) but, as you might imagine, I have a clarification.

What you subsequently explained is not judgement, it's discernment. Judgement happens when you formulate the opinion and place your own 'standards' on someone.

Websters defines Judgment as:

Main Entry: judg·ment
Variant(s): or judge.ment /'j&j-m&nt/
Function: noun
Date: 13th century
1 a : a formal utterance of an authoritative opinion b : an opinion so pronounced
2 a : a formal decision given by a court b (1) : an obligation (as a debt) created by the decree of a court (2) : a certificate evidencing such a decree
3 a : capitalized : the final judging of mankind by God b : a divine sentence or decision; specifically : a calamity held to be sent by God
4 a : the process of forming an opinion or evaluation by discerning and comparing b : an opinion or estimate so formed
5 a : the capacity for judging : b : the exercise of this capacity
6 : a proposition stating something believed or asserted

And Discernment as:

Main Entry: dis·cern·ment
Pronunciation: di-'s&rn-m&nt, -'z&rn-
Function: noun
Date: 1586
1 : the quality of being able to grasp and comprehend what is obscure : skill in discerning
2 : an act of discerning

And Discern:

Main Entry: dis·cern
Pronunciation: di-'s&rn, -'z&rn
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French discerner, from Latin discernere to separate, distinguish between, from dis- apart + cernere to sift —more at DIS-, CERTAIN
Date: 14th century
transitive senses
1 a : to detect with the eyes b : to detect with senses other than vision
2 : to recognize or identify as separate and distinct :
3 : to come to know or recognize mentally
intransitive senses: to see or understand the difference

quote:

Are you going to say HONESTLY you do not do this? Often, what someone calls making a judgement, seem nothing more than using common sense. What I do *try* not to do though is place my standards on others. I honestly do believe YKINMK and as long as YOUR kink isn't hurting me or my kink isn't hurting you. too bad if we don't agree on things. But that doesn't mean I have to agree that your kink is *good*, *safe* or *honorable*. Just becase it is somes kink to cuckold does not mean I *have* to see it as something honorable (unless it's done with all parties actually knowing).

What you are describing is, to my mind, discernment. Placing your own standards on someone else and then issuing a decree about the 'right or wrong' of it is judgment. Discernment is simply deciding whether it is 'right or wrong' for you, without making assessments about the other person.

[

quote:

Sorry you don't agree, but see, even to not agree you are passing a judgement that someone elses opinion or actions are wrong,,,,

I think this too is discernment. I don't agree that not agreeing is judgment, not unless you opine about that which is not your province...the right or wrong of it for someone else.

For me the easiest way to tell the difference for myself is to realize whether or not I am feeling self rightous when I say it. If so, it's probably a judgment.

I neither have, nor want, the right to judge someone else. I do have the inalienable right to discern for myself.

But then I do not agree that everyone has a right to their opinion. My rule of thumb for this is that "if it's an opinion about something that is none of my business then it's a judgment."

This distinction has been very helpful to me in my life.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to EStrict)

RE: what to do if... - 3/12/2004 8:10:55 AM

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To 'judge' (verb) is to form an opinion from guidelines, criterion or principles (to INFER), while judge (noun) is representative, as a critic, or one who judges for others.

To 'discern' (verb) is to differentiate, distinguish, or discriminate. Discerning is all about detecting differences, and recognition of differing qualities/aspects (to DETECT).

Neither 'judge' nor 'discern' normally involve 'self-righteousness' (bias), or whether the matter being judged or discerned is any of someone's business?

To 'discombobulate' is to upset or confuse.

We ALL discern AND judge, everyday of our lives (we also discombobulate).

Grab a hot iron and quickly you will discern (DETECT) it is not cool to the touch, and quickly you will judge (INFER) you should not grab it again.

If a playful rabbit bites your finger, it is easy to bypass 'discernment' (was the rabbit discombobulated, or simply attempting to eat you?) and formulate a judgement that rabbits are maneaters (the SOB bit me, therefore rabbits are cannibalistic canines?)

Inyouagain

(in reply to MizSuz)

RE: what to do if... - 3/27/2004 9:46:31 PM

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OMJAH!!!!
If I am being Judged by what I write in a Forum while on line in My what I concider fun off time to be carefree and aloof and foolish and give My opinions which are usually off beat from the majority anyhow and always puts a sour taste in many Dominants mouths, even tho I would perfer to run My long nails against the chalk board screeeeeeching the fingernails across the black to give sumone a chill up their spines, then why the heck am I getting these gosh darn emails sent to My mail box which are most uninvited which is full now from hm must be a submissive from every part of the world??

Collarme protest............SAVE THE COCKS!!!!

(in reply to inyouagain)

RE: what to do if... - 3/27/2004 10:39:41 PM

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The obvious question would be why are you wasting your time here attempting to entertain us when your mailbox is full of messages from those seeking your entertainment? Do you need help setting priorities?

Inyouagain

(in reply to MistressDREAD)

RE: what to do if... - 3/28/2004 2:08:22 AM

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quote:

i don't think he violated TOS,

He did not violate Star Trek The Original Series.

(Sorry I had to.)

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to perverseangelic)

RE: what to do if... - 3/28/2004 2:13:05 AM

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Way off topic...

quote:

Wow. I never met Hitler in person.

I'll have you know that Hitler was kind to animals.

(Well until he had his dog poisoned to be sure his suicide wouldn't just put him to sleep so he could wake up a Russian prisoner.)

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to Estring)

RE: what to do if... - 3/30/2004 9:40:25 PM

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So there is no decent way of warning others about someone without it sounding like sour grapes? That's unfortunate; in my previous Boston group legitimate warnings could be passed around privately - you can generally tell the sour-grape variety anyway - and it saved a number of people from potential bad experiences. One person was so awful, we found out (as our reports involving him grew) that he had been 'iced out' of the New York Scene following several years accumulation of rather serious abuses towards 'his' submissives. What to do, what to do - and where does our responsibility come in towards others in the Scene? I'm not talking about emotional dissatisfaction, anger or a lousy relationship - I mean in the case of a harmful person?

(in reply to perverseangelic)

RE: what to do if... - 3/31/2004 2:19:04 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mysteryUS

So there is no decent way of warning others about someone without it sounding like sour grapes? That's unfortunate; in my previous Boston group legitimate warnings could be passed around privately - you can generally tell the sour-grape variety anyway - and it saved a number of people from potential bad experiences. One person was so awful, we found out (as our reports involving him grew) that he had been 'iced out' of the New York Scene following several years accumulation of rather serious abuses towards 'his' submissives. What to do, what to do - and where does our responsibility come in towards others in the Scene? I'm not talking about emotional dissatisfaction, anger or a lousy relationship - I mean in the case of a harmful person?

Mystery,
I have to ask you. Your old group had an "inner circle", correct? Those witin the inner circle talked about those who were'nt? Gossiped? I know it did because all groups do. People gossip. They gossip about us on the boards. That's the way humans behave.
Who am I to judge somebody based on anothers opinions? What gives me that right?

Granted there are people I stay away from as well living in California. I do that because of other crimes they have committed over the years that have been tried. I read the papers.

I understand what you are saying as well. Sure it would be a definate asset to any group in the country if you could label everyone. Only problem is your labels are not mine. A lot of people are emotional. They will speak from their hearts and not their brains. How do you cope with those people?
How do you protect someone from someone else?
I have to ask. Did you ever truly look into this individuals crimes? Was he tried? I'm not talking mere speculation here but hard facts?
Or did you sully an innocent man's reputation because of a few rumors circulating?

(in reply to mysteryUS)

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