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RE: McCain supports Palin for president ... sort of - 4/1/2009 1:20:52 PM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

Why waste the time? Obviously what makes noise is problems, not successes. Studies of access and outcomes are fruitful, a pissing war of links is a waste of time.

....a fair point. Do we have any information on relative access to healthcare in the UK and US systems? Say, as a percentage of population?

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RE: McCain supports Palin for president ... sort of - 4/1/2009 1:40:43 PM

TreasureKY

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Sorry Treasure,but what is truly useless is available treatments ....beyond the financial reach of one in need of them.

Perhaps, but does that invalidate the lack of usefulness in knowing that needed treatment exists but it is either unavailable or denied?

Again, I ask if trading problems is a viable solution? I suspect that the answer to that question will be subjective.

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RE: McCain supports Palin for president ... sort of - 4/1/2009 1:55:07 PM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY
Again, I ask if trading problems is a viable solution? I suspect that the answer to that question will be subjective.

....depends. If the trade means you get a smaller problem than you had before then, yes, it is worth it. So it all comes down to the relative values placed on problems.

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RE: McCain supports Palin for president ... sort of - 4/1/2009 2:04:29 PM

TreasureKY

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

....depends. If the trade means you get a smaller problem than you had before then, yes, it is worth it. So it all comes down to the relative values placed on problems.

Exactly.

Some people would rather deal with the known problems that they currently have, rather than trade them for unknown problems that could possibly be worse... and some people would gladly trade in the hopes of coming out better off. Like I said, it's subjective... based on individual personal impressions and feelings and opinions rather than external facts.

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RE: McCain supports Palin for president ... sort of - 4/1/2009 2:45:11 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

it seems that this is the country you goto when you want the best Doctors. Simply put when you want the best you come to the US
Remember the story about Natasha Richardson?? Where did Liam Neeson bring her??? He had her transferred to a US hospital in NY.

Or you think maybe it was because they lived in New York?

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RE: McCain supports Palin for president ... sort of - 4/1/2009 2:53:59 PM

CruelNUnsual

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Sorry Treasure,but what is truly useless is available treatments ....beyond the financial reach of one in need of them.

and what is more uselesss is charging people to pay for other people's treatments that would have been their financial reach if they only had one less big screen TV or <gasp> kid.

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RE: McCain supports Palin for president ... sort of - 4/1/2009 2:57:10 PM

CruelNUnsual

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

it seems that this is the country you goto when you want the best Doctors. Simply put when you want the best you come to the US
Remember the story about Natasha Richardson?? Where did Liam Neeson bring her??? He had her transferred to a US hospital in NY.

Or you think maybe it was because they lived in New York?

Yeah, someone with more money than they can spend transferred her to a hospital with inferior care because they happen to live there. That passes the smell test...if your testing for swamp gas.

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RE: McCain supports Palin for president ... sort of - 4/1/2009 3:04:49 PM

slvemike4u

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Sorry Treasure,but what is truly useless is available treatments ....beyond the financial reach of one in need of them.

and what is more uselesss is charging people to pay for other people's treatments that would have been their financial reach if they only had one less big screen TV or <gasp> kid.
[/quote

Yep Cruel,that's whats standing between the uninsured and medical nirvana....a big screen tv and/or too many rug rats.Your ability to reduce a problem to it's root in one sentence is staggering.

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 4/1/2009 3:06:17 PM >

_____________________________

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Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

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RE: McCain supports Palin for president ... sort of - 4/1/2009 3:06:52 PM

CruelNUnsual

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Sorry Treasure,but what is truly useless is available treatments ....beyond the financial reach of one in need of them.

and what is more uselesss is charging people to pay for other people's treatments that would have been their financial reach if they only had one less big screen TV or <gasp> kid.
[/quoteYep Crruel,that's whats standing between the uninsured and medical nirvana....a big screen tv and/or too many rug rats.Your ability to reduce a problem to it's root in one sentence is staggering.

you do know that giving examples is not a generalization to all people, dont you? Or are you such a bigot that you stereotype on meager information?

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RE: McCain supports Palin for president ... sort of - 4/1/2009 3:12:27 PM

slvemike4u

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Sorry Treasure,but what is truly useless is available treatments ....beyond the financial reach of one in need of them.

and what is more uselesss is charging people to pay for other people's treatments that would have been their financial reach if they only had one less big screen TV or <gasp> kid.
[/quoteYep Crruel,that's whats standing between the uninsured and medical nirvana....a big screen tv and/or too many rug rats.Your ability to reduce a problem to it's root in one sentence is staggering.

you do know that giving examples is not a generalization to all people, dont you? Or are you such a bigot that you stereotype on meager information?

You're kidding right.Your very example is a stereotype....and about as bigoted as the old caricature of the welfare mom driving a pink Cadillac with 8 kids.But what do I know right.....

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

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RE: McCain supports Palin for president ... sort of - 4/1/2009 3:14:39 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

And no, I’m not talking about people who desire elective surgery, I’m talking about people who need cancer treatments but were put on a waiting list because they were deemed to old for immediate care. If that doesn’t constitute tyranny, then what the Hell does?

And you are seriously going to argue this doesn't happen with insurance companies?

How many stories had you heard of companies denying coverage on the claim it was "experimental" or "unproven" despite the doctor's recommendation for that treatment?

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RE: McCain supports Palin for president ... sort of - 4/1/2009 3:17:32 PM

ModeratorEleven

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Ok folks, settle down please.

XI

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This mod goes to eleven.

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RE: McCain supports Palin for president ... sort of - 4/1/2009 3:20:47 PM

CruelNUnsual

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

And no, I’m not talking about people who desire elective surgery, I’m talking about people who need cancer treatments but were put on a waiting list because they were deemed to old for immediate care. If that doesn’t constitute tyranny, then what the Hell does?

And you are seriously going to argue this doesn't happen with insurance companies?

How many stories had you heard of companies denying coverage on the claim it was "experimental" or "unproven" despite the doctor's recommendation for that treatment?

Lets say they happen equally under the current system of under Blowbama's vision of rationed but universal health care (and I dont believe they do). Under what system do you have more recourse, one where the "offending party" is an insurance company that you have a contract with, and one that is the Federal government that has no accountability and cant be sued?

In audits of health care insurers and administrators OVERPAYMENTS are far more prevalent than underpayments/wrongful denial both in frequency and dollars.

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RE: McCain supports Palin for president ... sort of - 4/1/2009 3:25:06 PM

slvemike4u

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Are those internal or independent audits?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

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RE: McCain supports Palin for president ... sort of - 4/1/2009 3:28:02 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

There is a huge difference between a society where people take care of each other and one where people are FORCED to take care of each other. In times much tougher than these, and in times when health care was far harder to obtain than it is now, there weren't masses of people dying for lack of food and care.

Uh yeah, afraid they were.

I have heard enough stories from elderly relatives who lived through the Great Depression.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 4/1/2009 3:29:10 PM >

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RE: McCain supports Palin for president ... sort of - 4/1/2009 3:34:43 PM

CruelNUnsual

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Are those internal or independent audits?

external...the 3 largest benefits consulting firms audit consultants find that in more than 90% of their audits. And the results are logically supportable. An insurance company makes money selling its product and spreading the risk over as many people as possible. A company with a consistent record of "mistreating" the employees of its policyholders isnt going to get new business or renewals, or the broker/consultant who place the business is subject to lawsuits. Similarly with individual insurance. Do you think Anthem, with all of the problems and negative press theyve gotten, is going to thrive if they don't change? The often seen claim that "insurance companies make their money by denying claims" is so opposite what the insurance company business model is its silly.

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RE: McCain supports Palin for president ... sort of - 4/1/2009 3:35:58 PM

CruelNUnsual

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

There is a huge difference between a society where people take care of each other and one where people are FORCED to take care of each other. In times much tougher than these, and in times when health care was far harder to obtain than it is now, there weren't masses of people dying for lack of food and care.

Uh yeah, afraid they were.

I have heard enough stories from elderly relatives who lived through the Great Depression.

youre great with "stories". Try dealing with the facts of the published mortality rates.

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RE: McCain supports Palin for president ... sort of - 4/1/2009 3:52:44 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

Yeah, someone with more money than they can spend transferred her to a hospital with inferior care because they happen to live there. That passes the smell test...if your testing for swamp gas.

Really?

So if you had a loved one in serious condition you would not want them to be treated in a familiar place where you had friends and family for support?

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RE: McCain supports Palin for president ... sort of - 4/1/2009 3:55:40 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

There is a huge difference between a society where people take care of each other and one where people are FORCED to take care of each other. In times much tougher than these, and in times when health care was far harder to obtain than it is now, there weren't masses of people dying for lack of food and care.

Uh yeah, afraid they were.

I have heard enough stories from elderly relatives who lived through the Great Depression.

youre great with "stories". Try dealing with the facts of the published mortality rates.

And you're not great at dealing in facts.

If you want to tell me about the published mortality rates then SHOW me those facts that support what you say.

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RE: McCain supports Palin for president ... sort of - 4/1/2009 3:58:44 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

Yeah, someone with more money than they can spend transferred her to a hospital with inferior care because they happen to live there. That passes the smell test...if your testing for swamp gas.

Really?

So if you had a loved one in serious condition you would not want them to be treated in a familiar place where you had friends and family for support?

From the New York Post.

quote:

She was eventually taken to Montreal's Hopital du Sacre-Coeur, where the family was told Richardson had no hope of regaining any brain function, friends said.
Loved ones didn't want Richardson to die in a foreign hospital, so they whisked her back to New York yesterday where she was greeted by family from both sides of the Atlantic.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/03182009/news/regionalnews/natasha_left_brain_dead_160187.htm

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