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RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/31/2006 5:13:44 AM

Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
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Good Morning! Been gone a bit----coffee?

quote:

But more importantly, there is a cost of remaining out of the job market for any length of time. Unless one is assured of a steady income from some source i think most people (women are people) are better off being in school part-time or at work part-time, so they continue to acquire marketable skills and have no gap on their resume to explain.

How many submissives have we seen that stopped work and ended up after a time out of the relationship?--I'm with candy---that to Me is endangering that person's ability to survive should circumstances change--hell someone could get hit by a bus on the way to a play party---and poof!

< Message edited by MHOO314 -- 1/31/2006 5:16:43 AM >

_____________________________

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Mistress Hathor

(in reply to candystripper)

RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/31/2006 5:28:52 AM

LadiesBladewing

Posts: 944
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This is the philosophical debate of all time. "What is money without love, hope, peace, joy, etc.?"

No. He or she is -not- less in living this way. Again, it's all a matter of intent and stewardship. If he chooses to live paycheck to paycheck, he is going to have to learn how to meter his wants and weigh wants vs. needs.

Anyway -- the full discussion of this could be too much for this particular thread, but I'd be happy to discuss it at length in a different venue.

Lady Zephyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeepThinker

I was just interested in asking a question. What if someone was once a very wealthy, successful, driven person. One day their business partner drops dead right in the middle of a meeting that could bring in many millions to the company. If this person stops, takes a long look at his life, realizes all the hard work, long hours, missed meals,missed family, missed life, just isn't worth all he's given up.

If this person, sells everything, gives everything away to family, friends, charities, and then decides, I don't need all the things I thought I needed to be happy. If this person then just lives (as put here paycheck to paycheck). Does this make the person any less of what he could be if what he's found is his happiness in being less in others eyes and more in his own.

If his only effort to improve his lot is to insure his daily well being and happiness. Is he any less than he was before? Is his freedom to make that choice, because he's a dominant, not his choice to make because he could aspire to do or be more than he chooses to from his point of view?

This is just a question that arose from your reply.

_____________________________

"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.
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(in reply to DeepThinker)

RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/31/2006 12:54:24 PM

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Joined: 12/23/2005
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I don't know about the rest of the world but in the USA, money talks; bullshit walks.

Get yourself in order. Get your finances in order; then consider becoming someone's Master/Mistress.

_____________________________

One of Master's many sluts

(in reply to Tantalus42)

RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/31/2006 1:23:52 PM

Posts: 51
Joined: 1/27/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshine333

we all seek something different. i think it's important to be clear and realistic on what we're looking for and what we have to offer. some Masters wish to have a slave at home ... taking care of all the domestic things so that he can have a sanctuary (of sorts) when he comes home from work. he might also expect her to be in a good mood ... eager and happy to serve him. that is a full time job for a slave and if a Master expects this level of high quality "work" from her then he should be fully capable of taking on the other responsibilities of the household .. mainly financial.

That's probably the first really good explanation of why a potential slave might take finances into account when approaching a prospective Master. Thanks for pointing that out, sunshine, it's actually very relevant and convinces me to ammend my own viewpoint somewhat to agree with you. I don't think in most cases (Dom/sub or Top/bottom) it's as big a deal, but when people are full lifestyle and living in this fashion with these expectations, it should be a serious consideration.

(in reply to sunshine333)

RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/31/2006 1:25:44 PM

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Joined: 1/23/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gbgirlz2003

I don't know about the rest of the world but in the USA, money talks; bullshit walks.

Get yourself in order. Get your finances in order; then consider becoming someone's Master/Mistress.

From here it looks more like ...In the USA money talks, bullshit takes you to the whitehouse.

A lot of the people that are being talked about HAVE their finances in order sweetie, they just put a higher priority on other things after they have enough to be comfortable.

(in reply to gbgirlz2003)

RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/31/2006 2:49:23 PM

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gbgirlz2003

I don't know about the rest of the world but in the USA, money talks; bullshit walks.

Get yourself in order. Get your finances in order; then consider becoming someone's Master/Mistress.

Only if you don't have the right connections.....

Before making such sweeping statements as your last paragraph I sugest you take a reality check.. The whole world does not take a lead from the US, nor are always influenced by it's money culture. As far as bullshit walking.. Yep it sure did right into the white house and then conned other countries into believing that an invasion of Iraq was necessary for world peace.

_____________________________

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Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to gbgirlz2003)

RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/31/2006 3:05:51 PM

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A few points to add to my post.

First, a woman (or man) who remains at home CAN be protected from finaicial straits after the relationship ends and CAN be protected from gaps in a resume. My point is, this is a necessity -- in some way, we must all support ourselves and possibly someone else at some time.

Second, i did not mean to disparage May/December D/s relationships; only to point out that if finances are a guiding light, the wrong man (or woman) may show up.

i suggest again that people review the "Planning for D/s Couples and Families" thread and consider whether any such step is consistent with their relationship. This is not an advert for my services; i will try and help You find BDSM-friendly lawyers in Your state if possible if You prefer.

candystripper

< Message edited by candystripper -- 1/31/2006 3:08:32 PM >

(in reply to IronBear)

RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/31/2006 3:14:55 PM

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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Hi candy you sexy lady you.

You've made a good point. I'd say that as part of the early stages which for me is either before or during the probationary period, I'd want to sit down for some heart to heart discussion time with the girl and work out what need top be done including what I can do as her Master to give what security, such as helping to create a savings account for her, unless she come from my local area, have her registered with mt Doctor etc. Added to that I would ensure that she would have references as a PA if anything did happen and if she also had disabilities, we'd make damned sure that she was hooked into what ever disability assistance program she needed with all the necessary contacts. If she had to go and do any shopping or attend either work mor school and didn't have a prepaid mobile (cell) phone (ideal for budgeting), we'd organise one with Neet and my mobile numbers as well as the home phone logged in as well as all the emergency and important numbers she may need.

Like everything else this is all upfront and damned near written in stone.

< Message edited by IronBear -- 1/31/2006 3:15:38 PM >

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to candystripper)

RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/31/2006 3:33:43 PM

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Joined: 12/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
The whole world does not take a lead from the US, nor are always influenced by it's money culture. As far as bullshit walking.. Yep it sure did right into the white house and then conned other countries into believing that an invasion of Iraq was necessary for world peace.

Any student of history will tell you that the difficulties in governing effectively, have always risen in direct proportion to a nation's power base. For all its many, many flaws, the United States is no more flawed than Classical Rome, Angevin Norman Europe, Sassanid Persia, or Qin China.

Being a power has never been easy, and is made no easier by commentary from the cheap seats. Obviously, the United States made a serious error in its prosecution of the war in Iraq. The United States was also the only nation willing to do something about genocide in the Balkans. The United States is also the nation willing to put the flower of her youth in harm's way, whenever there is crisis in Europe, or Asia.

When Rome ruled most of the Western world, the favorite game of Greek writers, was to continually comment on how barbaric the Roman's were, how poor a job they did of governing, and how much better things were, before the Romans came around ... BUT, when the Cumans, Huns and Alars were pounding at the gate, the first thing they would do is ask the Roman Empire to send her legions.

You may think of us, what you will ... but the truth is, that you are not playing in our league, so you really don't know how hard the game can be. At some point, the wise play might be forgiveness for our errors, balanced against all the good that we have done for other Western nations.

Peace ... cc

(Please forgive me for the hijacking this thread)

(in reply to IronBear)

RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/31/2006 3:46:56 PM

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Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

caitlyn,
I was not having a shot at the US, strangly I have a huge amount of love and loyalty for your country. I served in Nam in a US Unit and have worked for both the US and Aussie Governments. I do keep abreast and informeds on US policies for often in the past they have dictated my personal movements and where I was heading off to or which combat zone I'd be frequenting. The US National Anthem is one of the two for which I will and do stand up and salute when played. My comments were aimed at those who forget that there are people from other countries here in CM and as I stated some months ago in one thread that I and others from Australia, the UK, New Zealand etc should not and indeed will not allow some from the US to treat us like secong class members. Taken in that contewxt, I believe my comments were reasonable, especially regarding to the post i was replying to.

quote:

The whole world does not take a lead from the US, nor are always influenced by it's money culture. As far as bullshit walking.. Yep it sure did right into the white house and then conned other countries into believing that an invasion of Iraq was necessary for world peace.

I see your comments as valuable, honourable and what I would expect from a proud American. Salute' caitlyn.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to caitlyn)

RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/31/2006 3:55:04 PM

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

but the truth is, that you are not playing in our league, so you really don't know how hard the game can be. At some point, the wise play might be forgiveness for our errors, balanced against all the good that we have done for other Western nations.

Not playing in your league...

Well living in whats left of a 'little league' operation that was known as the british empire I have a somewhat diffrent view....

"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:Look upon my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"

(in reply to caitlyn)

RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/31/2006 4:39:53 PM

LadiesBladewing

Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshine333

we all seek something different. i think it's important to be clear and realistic on what we're looking for and what we have to offer. some Masters wish to have a slave at home ... taking care of all the domestic things so that he can have a sanctuary (of sorts) when he comes home from work. he might also expect her to be in a good mood ... eager and happy to serve him. that is a full time job for a slave and if a Master expects this level of high quality "work" from her then he should be fully capable of taking on the other responsibilities of the household .. mainly financial.

While I agree with much of this post, I am afraid that I must disagree with the idea that keeping up the home and being pleasant and available are a "full time job". Unless one owns a mansion, the chores of keeping a sanctuary at home are perfectly compatible with working outside the home, as is the eager, happy, available servant. The trick is to plan, prepare, and arrange one's life according to the needs of the household, and to remember that joy is something we -create-, and we have the option to choose joy in service, even when the service is full of challenges to entice and tantalize us, the solutions often just a mind-twist away, somewhere "outside the box".

This is not a denegration of the people who -choose- to have their servants out of the workplace and focused on home concerns, but it also recognizes that there are many fine servants who are skilled in managing work in service to their Owners in the outside world -and- managing to keep a wonderful home, with good food, pleasant conversation, attentive and joyful service, and whose contributions of energy in -all- of the areas that they participate (including that of the financial energy of the household) are made with graceful transition between all aspects.

Lady Zephyr

_____________________________

"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.
Bladewing Enclave

(in reply to sunshine333)

RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/31/2006 4:41:51 PM

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Joined: 1/22/2006
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It was with deliberate intent that I let this be open ended. Without all the facts surrounding the complete circumstances of the act. Prior events leading up to the day of the partners death, the individual not being married (family being parents and siblings).

Money being a necessary by-product of the need to be the most successful in your field, when weighed against the scales of ones life, can and does in some cases, becomes meaningless.

Having millions in assets may make many feel comfortable and secure, but is giving it to charities, family (securing a good future for those with children), and those less advantaged, mean this person was acting reckless and without thought of their own future?

We all have formed opinions from our lives and backgrounds. Our environment shapes us into people of action and inaction. Therefore it's from this point of view that I say in my opinion, each act taken to slow down a life lived like a downhill train without brakes, was correct and without any question, the way for this paycheck to paycheck one to live. To you it may not be the right thing, but not being inside the heart and mind of him, you can't gauge the peace and happiness simple living can bring.

DT

(in reply to Padriag)

RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/31/2006 5:10:12 PM

Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Only if you don't have the right connections.....

Before making such sweeping statements as your last paragraph I sugest you take a reality check.. The whole world does not take a lead from the US, nor are always influenced by it's money culture. As far as bullshit walking.. Yep it sure did right into the white house and then conned other countries into believing that an invasion of Iraq was necessary for world peace.

IronBear

IronBear is not my only Hottie, intelligent Aussie Man friend. Sometimes i think we'd be better off following them, if the quality of Man is a measure of a society.

candystripper

(in reply to IronBear)

RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/31/2006 5:12:07 PM

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Any student of history will tell you that the difficulties in governing effectively, have always risen in direct proportion to a nation's power base. For all its many, many flaws, the United States is no more flawed than Classical Rome, Angevin Norman Europe, Sassanid Persia, or Qin China.

Being a power has never been easy, and is made no easier by commentary from the cheap seats. Obviously, the United States made a serious error in its prosecution of the war in Iraq. The United States was also the only nation willing to do something about genocide in the Balkans. The United States is also the nation willing to put the flower of her youth in harm's way, whenever there is crisis in Europe, or Asia.

When Rome ruled most of the Western world, the favorite game of Greek writers, was to continually comment on how barbaric the Roman's were, how poor a job they did of governing, and how much better things were, before the Romans came around ... BUT, when the Cumans, Huns and Alars were pounding at the gate, the first thing they would do is ask the Roman Empire to send her legions.

You may think of us, what you will ... but the truth is, that you are not playing in our league, so you really don't know how hard the game can be. At some point, the wise play might be forgiveness for our errors, balanced against all the good that we have done for other Western nations.

Peace ... cc

(Please forgive me for the hijacking this thread)[/color]

Ahhh, the ole "any student of history" lead eh? To me it looks like you are all over the place here. I'm miffed that there's no comparison of the Cumans to the Mayans.

Just to clarify, though, is your point:

a)"The United States could be a lot worse"
b) "being a critical idget does no one any good?"
c) "The Greeks were spoiled, dependent, powerless bastards."
d) "Australians, being from a podunk Island, have no business criticizing US foreign policy"
e) "If the Romans were still around, eveyone would hate them too."

----

What I find interesting about the UNITED STATES now, is how we've picked up the USSR's fallen mantle of most despised world nation. I'm not sure this has as much to do with "commentary from the cheap seats," as it does with us committing war crimes, violations of international law, and trumping up a national security threat to justify a war of agression.

(in reply to caitlyn)

RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/31/2006 6:05:09 PM

Posts: 164
Status: offline

We all are on the financial edge and it is a matter of time before we can loose our job. I think we must be realistic that both Master and a slave will need to have a job now days. It is no different if Husband and wife both have must a job so they can live. When I read so many subs and slave profiles saying they Dominate must have a job or financial secure it made me wonder are they looking for a sugar daddy to take care of them. The way so many people being laid off it is a matter of time before some one is laid off or loose their job. I also see a report so many employers are paying the employ less and less for doing their job and some people may have a degree too.

< Message edited by HoosierScorpio -- 1/31/2006 6:16:12 PM >

(in reply to IronBear)

RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/31/2006 7:03:44 PM

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Joined: 8/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I find it very interesting that this whole thread has been about low-income doms, and no one has mentioned low-income DOMMES. As usual, we don't seem to be getting very far beyond the idea of the male as provider for the female.

The thread keeps on reverting back to the issue of low-income DOMS instead of DOMMES because it's impossible to ignore the gender divide when discussing money matters. Which brings us back to Fergus' original comment:

quote:

ORIGINAL: fergus

There are some universal truths not about Doms vs. subs but more about men vs. women. We are each hard wired (in BROAD generalities) different; and attracted to different things. Women (again, gross generalies) are attracted to one who can provide. Either a physically strong, and or financially secure mate speaks to that primordial desire.
I know what some may say about htat in regards to today's society and what not, but 10,000 years of culture does not over come a million years of human evolution. It is merely an instinct (albeit a strong one).

Anthropologists and evolutionary psychologists believe that women are genetically programmed to seek out high status men with lots of money and resources and to disdain men with no earning power.

Conversely, research has also concluded that women do not seem to benefit one bit from having money. No matter how much money and resources they have at their disposal, men are still primarily concerned about their looks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fergus

It occurs to me that this subject is the male equivelent to the "BBW" question.

fergus

Yes, how insightful. It really is the EXACT equivalent.

Those of us in the BDSM world can't quite elude the gravity that rules the real world. Doms / male switches / male subs with money and status will always be highly sought after compared to their counterparts with less money and status. Similarly, Dommes / female switches / female subs who are young, beautiful and have a defined waistline will always be more popular compared to their more elderly, unattractive, no waistline counterparts.

In conclusion, I feel it's somewhat absurd to argue the ethics of a financially poor Dom taking in a sub, because the real issue is more about supply and demand. If you happen to be a poor Dom and can still afford to keep a sub, good for you! You probably have something else going for you (or your sub probably ranks somewhere similar on the supply and demand chain).

< Message edited by SeverineX -- 1/31/2006 7:10:13 PM >

_____________________________

Aesthetics are higher than ethics. -- Oscar Wilde

(in reply to fergus)

RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/31/2006 8:47:38 PM

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Joined: 6/22/2004
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Sentences that begin with phrases like "Anthropologists and evolutionary psychologists believe ..." are never true and usually manipulative. There are so many different anthropologists and anthropological theories that "anthropologists" as a group don't hold many more beliefs in common than that the sky is blue and tomatoes are red.

And do you have any references regarding what you say research has "concluded"? (Research doesn't conclude anything; people draw conclusions on the basis of research.) I'm a man, and I'm not primarily concerned with a woman's looks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeverineX

Anthropologists and evolutionary psychologists believe that women are genetically programmed to seek out high status men with lots of money and resources and to disdain men with no earning power.

Conversely, research has also concluded that women do not seem to benefit one bit from having money. No matter how much money and resources they have at their disposal, men are still primarily concerned about their looks.

(in reply to SeverineX)

RE: Low Income Dominants. - 2/1/2006 2:25:10 AM

Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

We all are on the financial edge and it is a matter of time before we can loose our job. I think we must be realistic that both Master and a slave will need to have a job now days. It is no different if Husband and wife both have must a job so they can live. When I read so many subs and slave profiles saying they Dominate must have a job or financial secure it made me wonder are they looking for a sugar daddy to take care of them. The way so many people being laid off it is a matter of time before some one is laid off or loose their job. I also see a report so many employers are paying the employ less and less for doing their job and some people may have a degree too.

HoosierScorpio

Outsourcing is killing the middle class...no benefits, no retirement, no job security. i agree, both parties need to be ABLE to care for the other; people have accidents, they become disabled, they lose their jobs. A subby or slave who will not work is a -- well -- a fool and does her Master or Dom or Domme a disservice unless she's/he's a trust fund baby.

candystripper

(in reply to HoosierScorpio)

RE: Low Income Dominants. - 2/1/2006 2:53:01 AM

Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

caitlyn,
I was not having a shot at the US, strangly I have a huge amount of love and loyalty for your country. I served in Nam in a US Unit and have worked for both the US and Aussie Governments. I do keep abreast and informeds on US policies for often in the past they have dictated my personal movements and where I was heading off to or which combat zone I'd be frequenting. The US National Anthem is one of the two for which I will and do stand up and salute when played. My comments were aimed at those who forget that there are people from other countries here in CM and as I stated some months ago in one thread that I and others from Australia, the UK, New Zealand etc should not and indeed will not allow some from the US to treat us like secong class members. Taken in that contewxt, I believe my comments were reasonable, especially regarding to the post i was replying to.

IronBear

caitlyn makes some good points; but Bush has been a disaster. BTW, NZ is a different country from Aussie?

Forgive my ingnorance.

candystripper

(in reply to IronBear)

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