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Stop-Signs - 4/6/2009 3:31:36 AM   
CollaredLisa


Posts: 135
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Due to a few... well, incidents within the last month or two, I've been wondering about something.
Is it normal for you that your Master or Dom (sadistic) makes you cry because he's being too sadistic and still keeps going until he thinks it has been enough? And is this kind of thing a problem for you?
I mean, I am a masochist, but I can't help thinking that crying, trying to curl up to protect myself and those kinds of things should be 'stop' signs.

And, second questions, are there moments you had with a Master or Dom where you got really scared or something like that that still send a shiver down your back and freak you out a little (negative way) when you think about them?

Hmmm... I hope my babbling is clear enough. Thank you in advance for your answers.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Stop-Signs - 4/6/2009 4:12:51 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		Doms, Masters, Tops, Sadists, are first and foremost Human Beings, not super-human beings, even if they dress up all in leather and put that scarey mask on.  In other words, He can't read your mind!!!!  If crying and curling up are "stop signs" to you then it is up to you to discuss this with Him ahead of time. 

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to CollaredLisa)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Stop-Signs - 4/6/2009 4:20:21 AM   
CollaredLisa


Posts: 135
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline 		I know and I did discuss it with him, right now I am more curious for other people's experiences and/ or opinions.

(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Stop-Signs - 4/6/2009 4:44:35 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		Being the Dominant in our relationship, it is my duty to learn to read his body language. As such if I saw him curling up and trying to get away from me, I'd slow down the play or even stop it if need be. He is a painslut BUT he never flinches or pulls away from me so it would have to be something extreme for him to do so.

We have a safeword in place BUT when he is way out in subspace he cannot speak to use it so, yes being able to read body language is imperative. If he started freaking out we would definitely stop and talk about it because that could be a trigger for a really BIG freak out. Something which I'd rather not have to deal with.

~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to CollaredLisa)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Stop-Signs - 4/6/2009 4:57:33 AM   
malloves69


Posts: 913
Joined: 9/15/2006
Status: offline 		hello Ms Lashra ...love your pic by the way it really shows you as the dominant woman that you are ...good day ..mal

(in reply to Lashra)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Stop-Signs - 4/6/2009 5:54:58 AM   
pinkwind


Posts: 367
Joined: 1/9/2005
Status: offline 		Stop signs should be clearly identified words or signals that are not ambiguous, not easily overlooked or ignored, and are accepted by all parties to mean exactly that...stop.

i cry, curl up to protect myself, moan, say no over and over again, but if Andy thinks, after checking on me and using his vast knowledge of my reactions, that it is ok to carry on then he does, knowing i am perfectly capable of using a stop sign, a safe word if i am in distress rather than anything else.

i have to say i have never had a negative feeling engendered by Andy or anything he does to me, he has shown himself to have a cunning and devious side to be sure, but i know full well he won't damage me mentally or physically because he wants to continue doing to me all the things he likes for a good while yet!



_____________________________

pink...
Master Andy's emotion...

From Each According To His Abilities, To Each According To His Needs.

(in reply to CollaredLisa)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Stop-Signs - 4/6/2009 5:55:50 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		He did tell you he's a sadist, right? And that he gets off on you suffering? So when he does this, he's getting off on it because it shows you aren't enjoying the pain but are suffering big time.

If this is too intense for you, then you need to set up boundaries. Actually you should have set them up back in the beginning.

And this is one of the reasons I didn't respond to mail from sadists, I don't like this stuff. I don't like pain, I don't like my pain being ignored, I don't like someone getting off on hurting me. Because when he ignores your pain, it can then change over from ignoring your physical pain to ignoring, or not caring about, your emotional state. And for me, that's a deal breaker.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to malloves69)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Stop-Signs - 4/6/2009 6:21:49 AM   
CollaredLisa


Posts: 135
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

He did tell you he's a sadist, right? And that he gets off on you suffering? So when he does this, he's getting off on it because it shows you aren't enjoying the pain but are suffering big time.

If this is too intense for you, then you need to set up boundaries. Actually you should have set them up back in the beginning.

And this is one of the reasons I didn't respond to mail from sadists, I don't like this stuff. I don't like pain, I don't like my pain being ignored, I don't like someone getting off on hurting me. Because when he ignores your pain, it can then change over from ignoring your physical pain to ignoring, or not caring about, your emotional state. And for me, that's a deal breaker.


He told me he was a sadist in the beginning, yes, and normally I love that fact because I like to be hurt almost as much as he likes to hurt me.
In the beginning I was completely knew and scared by everything, and he respected that, by now that part is gone.
He does care about my emotional state and everything, is incredibly sweet and caring, but there are those times that I am/ do have to discuss with him I suppose.

Thanks for all the insights and advice so far.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Stop-Signs - 4/6/2009 9:10:10 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Is it normal for you that your Master or Dom (sadistic) makes you cry because he's being too sadistic and still keeps going until he thinks it has been enough?


this slave wouldn't call Him TOO sadistic...but yes, it is normal for this slave to cry and for Him to continue as long as He wishes.  this slave also flinches, pulls on the restraints and sometimes even dances to the rythym of the pain/pleasure.

quote:

...And is this kind of thing a problem for you?...


no.  this slave is not expected to be stoic or hold back...to the contrary, actually!
 
quote:

...are there moments you had with a Master or Dom where you got really scared or something like that that still send a shiver down your back and freak you out a little (negative way) when you think about them?...


there have been scary moments...but nothing that lingers as negative/freaky.

(in reply to CollaredLisa)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Stop-Signs - 4/6/2009 10:56:51 AM   
hopeful68


Posts: 77
Joined: 9/16/2008
Status: offline 		It sounds to me like things have gone in a direction that needs to be addressed.  ALL Sadists should be able to read and interpurt correctly their submissives 'signals'.  When I am in the 'scene' I expect him to be able to 'read' me whether words are being used or not.  If he see's these's 'signs' from you and dosnt care, then there is something amiss there.  If this is something you have talked about before hand, then you need to renegotiate your terms with him.  But, in my mind, if this continues, you will lose your trust in him and not want to play at all.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Stop-Signs - 4/6/2009 11:13:08 AM   
CollaredLisa


Posts: 135
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Thank you Mercnbeth.

hopeful68, how would you see it if it's like sometimes he is very good in seeing those signals, and sometimes... well, not?

(in reply to hopeful68)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Stop-Signs - 4/6/2009 12:23:30 PM   
hopeful68


Posts: 77
Joined: 9/16/2008
Status: offline 		I would say that he is picking and choosing when he wants to relent to the signals or not.  The thing that is in question for you now, is, why.. does he not relent because he knows you can take it or does he not relent because he just dosnt want to.. and if he just dosnt want to.. then you have to ask yourself.. why.. does he not care, does he want what he wants, regardless of the price you pay.... ?  These are all questions you will have to get the answers from him.. and if he wont give you any answers then you have a decision to make.. dont you?

(in reply to CollaredLisa)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Stop-Signs - 4/6/2009 12:32:32 PM   
SassySarijane


Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP


And this is one of the reasons I didn't respond to mail from sadists, I don't like this stuff. I don't like pain, I don't like my pain being ignored, I don't like someone getting off on hurting me. Because when he ignores your pain, it can then change over from ignoring your physical pain to ignoring, or not caring about, your emotional state. And for me, that's a deal breaker.


While some may go that route of ignoring one's pain followed by ignoring or not caring for one's emotional state, not all do. I know sadists who enjoy inflicting pain that the masochist or bottom doesn't necessarily like, who feed from it, but they do not ignore the pain and they watch to see that they don't go too far. Sadist doesn't equal evil and uncaring and there is a difference between hurting someone and harming them. It really comes down to how well you know the person and how well they know you and what you have discussed as far as limits, likes and dislikes, what kind of person they are, not whether or not they are a sadist.

~This is a general reply btw, just sparked by that particular part in your post, DesFIP, got me thinking.~

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers
LPTnB

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Stop-Signs - 4/6/2009 1:16:28 PM   
CollaredLisa


Posts: 135
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SassySarijane

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP


And this is one of the reasons I didn't respond to mail from sadists, I don't like this stuff. I don't like pain, I don't like my pain being ignored, I don't like someone getting off on hurting me. Because when he ignores your pain, it can then change over from ignoring your physical pain to ignoring, or not caring about, your emotional state. And for me, that's a deal breaker.


While some may go that route of ignoring one's pain followed by ignoring or not caring for one's emotional state, not all do. I know sadists who enjoy inflicting pain that the masochist or bottom doesn't necessarily like, who feed from it, but they do not ignore the pain and they watch to see that they don't go too far. Sadist doesn't equal evil and uncaring and there is a difference between hurting someone and harming them. It really comes down to how well you know the person and how well they know you and what you have discussed as far as limits, likes and dislikes, what kind of person they are, not whether or not they are a sadist.

~This is a general reply btw, just sparked by that particular part in your post, DesFIP, got me thinking.~


Thanks for the insight from a different.. well, point of view I guess. I do think you are right with that kind of thinking - he does know me very well, that much is true... hmm... *gives all the replies some thought*

(in reply to SassySarijane)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Stop-Signs - 4/6/2009 3:22:07 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		my Sir is a sadist, and i enjoy that about him, and he has gone past what i would consider enjoyable - deliberately.  His feeling is is that if he only does things i like then i am in control, and we both know that isn't the truth. He uses things on me that i don't care for, in positions i don't like because he enjoys my discomfort and pain.

If it went way past my comfort point , i would have to talk to him about it - as much as i would hate to admit that i couldn't take it. And i know that he would listen to me, take it into consideration and go on doing what he wanted. I did say he was a sadist didn't i?  Just as well he loves me.

(in reply to CollaredLisa)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Stop-Signs - 4/6/2009 3:30:45 PM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline 		Im not going to talk about the definitions of the term sadist because it gets confusing so instead I am going to focus on the concept of body language. I flinch and pull away and all that stuff but for me that isnt a sign that the dominant needs to stop, its a natural response. Each person is different and have different physical responses, from one person I may be able to 'take' a hell of a lot of pain without moving from another i may move a lot and be unable to push myself as far. It depends on the specific relationship and the way that we work together. I dont really do safe words because for me it is just an extension of my relationships, I dont tend to set aside time to play or scene or any of that it is more organic and for that reason I dont like the idea of setting the rules, this is why I now insist on taking time to learn about each other, not formally but I try hard to make sure that we know each other really well. This means that my responses are easier to read, I have yet to have a partner who didnt know where the line was with me, who didnt stop in time. Body language is a strong element of this but then I think also in my type of relationship a person can tell the difference between no but meaning yes and stop right now. It doesnt work for all just me and I can totally understand the need for safe words in diferent dynamics. Its about doing what works for you

_____________________________

Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

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(in reply to kiwisub12)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Stop-Signs - 4/6/2009 4:29:02 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		2 thoughts

Do you have a safe word?

They are useful for some people.


If you are having unpleasant feelings in association with remembering 'play' then I think something needs to be adjusted.


(in reply to CollaredLisa)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Stop-Signs - 4/6/2009 4:52:45 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		I tend to think there is a basic question of trust here. I say that because you don't seem clear on his intentions, feelings about/for you, or his ability to read you well.

I will say I have gone well beyond what I thought I could and, had anyone told me beforehand that I was going to endure that, I would have found a means of escape quickly. It sounds like my boundaries were breached and a line crossed into abuse. It is not the case. He knew what I could take better than I did and proceeded based on what he knew and understood about me and about how my body responded. He saw I could take far more than I thought I could. It is one reason I am hesitant to use my safeword even though I understand its purpose and know I will not disappoint by using it. Except in some very narrow circumstances, I am not always the best judge of what I can handle. I have been even more tempted to safeword with mental things than with the physical so far.

If you really want to know why it seems he sometimes ignores signs you think are quite clear, ask him. Also evaluate more objectively the scenes in which this occurred. Did you ultimately enjoy it? Did you feel things went to a higher level in other ways that you do feel good about? Were you able to break down a barrier or lose a limit that you are glad to be free of? These are equally important as the method that got you there. You may find that his respect and trust in you is far deeper than you realize and that is WHY he can do what he does with you. Communication is key here.

lovingpet


(in reply to angelikaJ)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Stop-Signs - 4/6/2009 5:13:20 PM   
kuriouswitch


Posts: 325
Joined: 6/17/2008
Status: offline 		I've only curled up sobbing once with Master and that was during a "session" when he accidently hit a trigger. I actually blacked out too, he says i responded to him but from the moment the sobbing started until he changed tactics and brought me back i don't remember anything except wanting to beg him to stop and the need to curl up my body and trying to but stay in the position he put me in and follow his orders at the same time. Once he realized what was going on he changed tactics and brought me back and afterwards held me as i cried to sleep and made sure i was safe and okay. I was more upset about the whole episode than he was, i was angry at myself for my reaction, not at him for hitting a buried trigger.

(in reply to CollaredLisa)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Stop-Signs - 4/6/2009 6:06:27 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SassySarijane

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP


And this is one of the reasons I didn't respond to mail from sadists, I don't like this stuff. I don't like pain, I don't like my pain being ignored, I don't like someone getting off on hurting me. Because when he ignores your pain, it can then change over from ignoring your physical pain to ignoring, or not caring about, your emotional state. And for me, that's a deal breaker.


While some may go that route of ignoring one's pain followed by ignoring or not caring for one's emotional state, not all do. I know sadists who enjoy inflicting pain that the masochist or bottom doesn't necessarily like, who feed from it, but they do not ignore the pain and they watch to see that they don't go too far. Sadist doesn't equal evil and uncaring and there is a difference between hurting someone and harming them. It really comes down to how well you know the person and how well they know you and what you have discussed as far as limits, likes and dislikes, what kind of person they are, not whether or not they are a sadist.

~This is a general reply btw, just sparked by that particular part in your post, DesFIP, got me thinking.~


I think it's my fault. I didn't express it clearly. In my head, and I know this isn't universal, if someone's inflicting physical pain on me, then I will interpret it as him not caring about how I feel. Obviously this isn't true with any ethical sadist, but it is how I interpret it.

If the op also interprets physical pain as not caring, then she would have the same difficulty I do.

My way of getting around it was to look for a dominant bondage top, not a sadist.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to SassySarijane)
Profile   Post #: 20
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