quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact


Seriously, I'm not even saying that the Old Boy's Club way of thinking doesn't exist.  I know it does.  Personally, I haven't experienced a lot of it.  As I mentioned in another thread, I really don't know why this is or could I give any particular explanation for it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

LH, don't worry.  April is almost over.     Praise the IRS commissioner!!

Seriously, I'm not even saying that the Old Boy's Club way of thinking doesn't exist.  I know it does.  Personally, I haven't experienced a lot of it.  As I mentioned in another thread, I really don't know why this is or could I give any particular explanation for it.   That's the thing... just because you and I have not been  on the wrong side of prejudicial behaviour does not mean that it doesn't exist!  People tell me that I have this "presence" and this aura of dominance, and I have no freakin clue what they are on about.   In the vanilla world, I am "indimidating".  Whatever.  I am a woman who makes direct eye contact, pulls no punches, and doesn't take any nonsense. 
 
I agree with policing ourselves.  In fact, some of the ways of the good old boys used to do this.  An abuser in the midst?  It used to be one of the good old boys who would take him aside, figuratively (just so nobody confuses this with violence) knocked him upside the head about what he was doing that wasn't acceptable, and then removed him.  I would have been ENCHANTED if that had happened.  Here, it never does.  A person can be a thief, leave town, and be welcomed back with smiles to his face and commentary behind his back.   That's the point of this what this thread has devolved into---no one believes anyone!  And, the scene is not the Mafia.  I might be an Enforcer, but I have no authority other than my force of personality.  No one has to listen to me, or any other community organizer. 
 
Something else I've been thinking about.  If it had been a one to one of he said she said thing, I'd understand why people were trying to be fair.  When it starts being multiples, and more and more keep chiming in, you have to look at that.  Even if what's his name has excuses for it all.  It's like anything else that comes down to the common denominator.  (Sorry.  I'm sure the last thing you want to hear is anything that sounds like a math reference.)   I heart math.  :)

I did come into the thread when you were specifically asking for male opinions, and that could have been seen as rude.  Hope you didn't.  You're never rude!  At least not to me.    And of course only OUR interactions matter.  <evil!>

One other thing I will say since I'm already in it.  Even for some of the tempers and emotions that have run high in it's duration, it's a good thread, and it's an important thread.  Silence about these kinds of topics in our communities only perpetuates allowing them to continue.   This has been an amazingly educational thread.  I have learned a lot about the other posters on the boards, and I have certainly learned that there is no point in asking the men here for any practical assistance.   I am disappointed, and yes, surprised.  The attacks on my motives and integrity are irrelevant, what concerns me is that none of them are willing to believe actual witnesses!  Are they all Heinlein fans?  
 
As Tammyjo said elsewhere (I paraphrase) there is no easy way to get around millenia of conditioning.    I am not sure how to get around the scene hypocrisy which says on the one hand that we must be responsible adults, but on the other hand that if something bad happens we are not to be believed... and are somehow to blame.   This shoves issues underground, when the opposite should be happening.
 
Remember in the 70's, when the feminist movement was encouraging women to publicly confront their rapists?  ( I have an awesome poem about it).   I loved that idea.  I normally run from confrontation, but the idea of getting in someone's face in a public setting where they HAD to speak out for themselves, or not...  very appealing, kangaroo court or not.  
 
My whole life, I have been the one that points out that the Emperor has no clothes.    I'm not about to stop now.   Thanks for your input, everyone. 
 
 

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
...This has been an amazingly educational thread. I have learned a lot about the other posters on the boards, and I have certainly learned that there is no point in asking the men here for any practical assistance. I am disappointed, and yes, surprised. The attacks on my motives and integrity are irrelevant, what concerns me is that none of them are willing to believe actual witnesses! Are they all Heinlein fans?...

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ORIGINAL: Jeptha

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
...This has been an amazingly educational thread. I have learned a lot about the other posters on the boards, and I have certainly learned that there is no point in asking the men here for any practical assistance. I am disappointed, and yes, surprised. The attacks on my motives and integrity are irrelevant, what concerns me is that none of them are willing to believe actual witnesses! Are they all Heinlein fans?...

But honestly now; do you mean to imply that that wasn't your hypothesis going into this thread?

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Then, you've got what appears to be a group, or several groups of people (thank you for your post beth, it was an issue that was bugging the shit out of me too) that want all the benefits of belonging to a kinky group but for personal reasons they want to hide behind, don't want any of the responsibility. "He did something illegal but we don't want to put ourselves out there to do what's right and press charges." Instead, lets whisper and gossip about it for 10 years and wait for the big bad male doms to step in and beat him up for us, then cry sexism and every other kind of "oh the poor women" sob stories when they don't do what the women think is the right thing. Why should they? The women didn't want to do the right thing either.

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse


Then there was posts that kept bringing up legal issues to support how terrible the guy was, yet saying that the legal issues were irrelevant. Well, were they or not?

Then, you've got what appears to be a group, or several groups of people (thank you for your post beth, it was an issue that was bugging the shit out of me too) that want all the benefits of belonging to a kinky group but for personal reasons they want to hide behind, don't want any of the responsibility. "He did something illegal but we don't want to put ourselves out there to do what's right and press charges." Instead, lets whisper and gossip about it for 10 years and wait for the big bad male doms to step in and beat him up for us, then cry sexism and every other kind of "oh the poor women" sob stories when they don't do what the women think is the right thing. Why should they? The women didn't want to do the right thing either.

I just don't have enough words or space to type them to convey my disbelief and dismay.

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

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Then, you've got what appears to be a group, or several groups of people (thank you for your post beth, it was an issue that was bugging the shit out of me too) that want all the benefits of belonging to a kinky group but for personal reasons they want to hide behind, don't want any of the responsibility. "He did something illegal but we don't want to put ourselves out there to do what's right and press charges." Instead, lets whisper and gossip about it for 10 years and wait for the big bad male doms to step in and beat him up for us, then cry sexism and every other kind of "oh the poor women" sob stories when they don't do what the women think is the right thing. Why should they? The women didn't want to do the right thing either.

Very much appreciate your comments La Tigresse. There was a lot of advise given by male dominants in this thread; but because it didn't fit the desired answer of course, it was misogynistic.

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 Would a female dominant give different advice? I didn't notice any? Associating the described behavior of this person should be insulting to anyone representing themselves by the same 'Dom' label gender notwithstanding. What would be worse a reference to being a 'Dom' like 'him' or being a 'Dom' who didn't do anything about this 'Dom' and enabled him?

Who did NOT say - talk to him and if no positive result or 'eureka!' moment - ban the person? Timely it's the perfect way to help with this problem. Ten years after it points to a problem less related to the person and more about the group dynamic that enabled him to function. Who wants to hear that when you are a part of it?

Dominant, submissive, newbie, and old guard really doesn't matter. Being grabbed, being 'raped', being told you were exposed to an STD all as common knowledge, or at least common knowledge enough impact event attendance; and what answer could a 'dom' give? Get rid of him, kick him out of functions, don't invite him and if he shows up have the integrity to stick behind a personal judgment; seems reasonable and good advice. Why wasn't it good advice?

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Well, if the man indeed had extortion held as a threat - that's a totally different question and yeah I guess with that consideration a Dom may be faced with a choice; act and risk exposing a life that can not be exposed. Frankly I don't know how you can help if that's the case and beth pointing it out gave a reasoning why for 10 years situation like this could fester.

If it wasn't that it is a shame that the submissives were not given credibility by either gender on either end of the flogger for ten years. Outside that context it seems that doms did give good advice because it was followed - At least in some circles, the person is banned; with or without the 'chat' and/or first hand knowledge that some required.